Curse

Kunder · Sep 04, 2011, 08:31 PM // 20:31

ER certainly needs a nerf. Infinite energy is overpowered, anyone who disagrees is either retarded or trying to troll. It should never be possible to be invincible in a high end area, there should always be a chance of death if you slip up.

Ideally other imba PvE protection should be nerfed as well, namely ST rits and SY. ST rits certainly have no excuse at all for being in the game since rits have plenty of power in the rest of their skill set; SY at least has the distinction of being the only lifeline for paragons/rangers who can't do anything but generate adrenaline.

X monkey boy X · Sep 05, 2011, 12:59 AM // 00:59

while they could nerf er we didn't always run a emo, while im sure it would dent the times for trenchway runs it would not stop them though i feel the effect in uw would be much worse though. while dhuum can be done without a emo im sure it would be beyond pugs to do so. my point is that while the player base has been reduced we can still out think the 5 people in the live team that will try to fix it :P

Plutoman · Sep 05, 2011, 01:16 AM // 01:16

While it might damage the current SC's, they'll find other ways - people always have. If Ele's are changed up in other ways to be more viable, then an ER nerf is also viable - however, if the changes are not sufficient to create a use for ele's, then nerfing ER just nerfs the rest of the elementalist.

jimbo32 · Sep 05, 2011, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Why are we talking about speedclearing like it's something that deserves consideration from the Live Team? It's essentially an exploit, and I don't think most players would be sad if all SC's were nerfed out of existence.

This weird idea that PvE is somehow dominated by the SC is ridiculous. Most casual players probably wouldn't even know what the term means. I've been playing GW for years, and I don't know one person who regularly participates in SC'ing.

Essence Snow · Sep 05, 2011, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

Why are we talking about speedclearing like it's something that deserves consideration from the Live Team? It's essentially an exploit, and I don't think most players would be sad if all SC's were nerfed out of existence.

This weird idea that PvE is somehow dominated by the SC is ridiculous. Most casual players probably wouldn't even know what the term means. I've been playing GW for years, and I don't know one person who regularly participates in SC'ing.

Even though I SC a lot I am inclined to agree here....the SC community like the pvp community is small yet vocal....nerfing sc's wouldn't hurt as many as the vocal might think.

AndrewSX · Sep 05, 2011, 06:00 AM // 06:00

The point is that ideal balance, even if can obtained with some skill changes, might be sacrificed to keep alive (or better..happy) some parts of community, and the SC one is pretty much like the PvP one....small but as you said quite vocal.

Seriously, deleting sc from the face of gw wouldn't be difficult at all. If they left them (even trough some nerfs) is because destroying them could create a loss of PvE players which already done everything and stay on GW only for having fun(and getting money) in SC. I know lots of person like that. I'm not saying that pve would die or all high pve players wantss only SC, but there are quite some at this stage of the game.

shadowfell · Sep 05, 2011, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

Why are we talking about speedclearing like it's something that deserves consideration from the Live Team? It's essentially an exploit, and I don't think most players would be sad if all SC's were nerfed out of existence.

This weird idea that PvE is somehow dominated by the SC is ridiculous. Most casual players probably wouldn't even know what the term means. I've been playing GW for years, and I don't know one person who regularly participates in SC'ing.

I'd not miss speed clearing at all. I don't care for the mentality that comes with it. 'GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO'

What ever happened to actually killing everything in the instance and doing the quests or I dunno.. having fun doing those things? Why does everyone have to rush to the end so quickly?

Abedeus · Sep 05, 2011, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I'd not miss speed clearing at all. I don't care for the mentality that comes with it. 'GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO'

What ever happened to actually killing everything in the instance and doing the quests or I dunno.. having fun doing those things? Why does everyone have to rush to the end so quickly?

I blame HoM and people wanting to just have everything as fast as possible.

Me? I'm almost at 25/30, and I only have Skill Hunters, two or so Cartographers and maybe one of the PvE titles to finish, nothing big. Not in a hurry to get EVERYTHING NOW NOW NOW!!!11

Outerworld · Sep 05, 2011, 09:21 AM // 09:21

If Eles are being buffed to be worthwhile damage dealers, then an ER nerf seems imminent.

honnaja · Sep 05, 2011, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I'd not miss speed clearing at all. I don't care for the mentality that comes with it. 'GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO'

What ever happened to actually killing everything in the instance and doing the quests or I dunno.. having fun doing those things? Why does everyone have to rush to the end so quickly?

<claps> Well said!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I blame HoM and people wanting to just have everything as fast as possible.

... Not in a hurry to get EVERYTHING NOW NOW NOW!!!11

<nods> I agree.

I partcularly think of a guildie here, who I recall going for a certain title.. It was like they hated it, but HAD to do it to get the title. They'd log in and 'grind' this title, unable to do other things that they wanted to/were invited to, etc..
Needless to say, it didn't take too long from then for them to become bored of GW and leave

I tend to do what I feel like doing, whether that's doing a bit of work on a title, doing a z-quest, messing about with storage/inventory, doing a bit of AB/JQ/FA, getting a char. to NF epilogue for a piece of armour, challenging my heroes (ok me

) with DoA, etc..
I think this is why I still enjoy the game: I treat it as a game - to relax and enjoy. If I get fed up with it, I have a break for a while. I'd like at least 40/50 on one a/c and 30/50 on the other (although only one will probably count..?), but I'm not gonna get my knickers in a twist over it. It'll come with time :P

*lemming* · Sep 05, 2011, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I'd not miss speed clearing at all. I don't care for the mentality that comes with it. 'GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO'

What ever happened to actually killing everything in the instance and doing the quests or I dunno.. having fun doing those things? Why does everyone have to rush to the end so quickly?

Speedclearing is a natural end point of optimization of PvE gameplay.

jimbo32 · Sep 05, 2011, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Speedclearing is a natural end point of optimization of PvE gameplay.

Teams which depend on poorly-balanced skills to achieve a result which was unintended by the original design (finishing UW in 20 minutes for instance) is hardly a "natural end point". It's an exploit of shitty design.

AndrewSX · Sep 05, 2011, 11:53 AM // 11:53

After 6+ years of game and lack of real content updates/expansions apart wik-hotn-woc for long time i think is normal that people wants to do stuff fast. They did it endless times already.

In THIS enviroment SC are the natural end of PvE. For most players at least..other options are generally a-pass to pvp b-keep repeating stuff as always c-leave the game.

Xiaquin · Sep 05, 2011, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

Teams which depend on poorly-balanced skills to achieve a result which was unintended by the original design (finishing UW in 20 minutes for instance) is hardly a "natural end point". It's an exploit of shitty design.

The design allows it, so it's not really an exploit. Content like FoW/UW provides and rewards the party, even though in SC you don't play as one. The party splits the quests and all reap the collective reward at the end. This would be a non-issue if it worked more like Dragon's Lair, teleporting the team from area to area without allowing it all to be done in parallel sequence by splitting.

Kunder · Sep 05, 2011, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Speedclearing is a natural end point of optimization of PvE gameplay.

You know, I remember this time in the past. It was before endless title grinding and rampant loot whoring, where the natural end of PvE players was to start PvPing. Somehow both PvP and PvE worked a lot better back then.

StormDragonZ · Sep 05, 2011, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

What ever happened to actually killing everything in the instance and doing the quests or I dunno.. having fun doing those things? Why does everyone have to rush to the end so quickly?

Now and then, I jokingly say in the middle of Zaishen quests "MUST GET ZCOINS NOW!!!" whenever someone says to hurry up.

That's exactly the point. People only have 24 hours in a day to get their three accounts worth of characters the ZCoins necessary to get that 100 Gold Coin weapon that you probably don't have. After all, if I have something you don't, I'm better.

/sarcasm

Beliarchia Targon · Sep 06, 2011, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

I'd not miss speed clearing at all. I don't care for the mentality that comes with it. 'GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO'

What ever happened to actually killing everything in the instance and doing the quests or I dunno.. having fun doing those things? Why does everyone have to rush to the end so quickly?

As Devil's advocate, I would suggest that anyone GOGOGOGO'ing their way through a speedclear probably has killed everything in the instance, done the quests, and had fun doing so. And having done so in the past, they are now more interested in rushing to the end to rapidly earn rewards, than in repeating stuff they've done before at a leisurely pace.

Swingline · Sep 06, 2011, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

The design allows it, so it's not really an exploit.

Just because the design allows it does not mean its not horribly flawed. Its in no way exploiting an area or skills as much as it is exploiting the live teams inability to balance.

Fluffy Kittens · Sep 06, 2011, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Why dont they just remove shadowform...
Also uw is easily done within 1hour with only 3 players (who of course run other 5 players for a fee of 100k and then sell their money/ectos and whatnot on QQ forums)
So yeah if SC teams get a nerf I think some people would be quite pissed.

Missing HB · Sep 06, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

So yeah if SC teams get a nerf I think some people would be quite pissed.

That's the same kind of piss as people who played TA/HB for months and got it deleted all suddenly...

But anyway, at the point of the game, i think their objective isn't to make a mass of players leave the game, considering farming is the only thing left and that ectos got a certain use on an other forum, linked to real life....