Curse

Karate Jesus · Jan 25, 2011, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverblad3

are we too hopeful?

Yes.

Last I heard, Anet doesn't even register this on their radar. And appealing to the TK isn't a great idea currently. They're hardly functioning as it is.

If I were you, I'd just bring this to the attention of Gaile either through email or on GWW. She's probably your only hope to get this some attention, and honestly, we'll have no idea if they care about this until they do something.

Sorry, bud, but that's the current state of GW.

Silverblad3 · Jan 25, 2011, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Indeed it seems that way does it not? I guess we can only hope by raising the profile of this issue more people will care to speak up about it and that as a PR issue for anet it becomes an issue that they need to address rather than ignore it.

The key problem is that if this is how they expect to handle issues in GW2 then they will put off many customers and I am waiting to see publicly what they are going to do about it.

Silver

Silverblad3 · Feb 15, 2011, 01:33 PM // 13:33

So I read on GW2guru and the anet blog that Snowball arena will return, hence possibly 5v5 snowball gvg.

Assuming similar game play (returning presents and dodging key attacks) then GW2 will be bot/macro heaven as anet are unable to do anything about this problem for the last two years in GW.

You would think they would try and combat the problem somewhat, increase expertise to better combat cheats in GW2?

Silver

Artisan Archer · Feb 15, 2011, 01:41 PM // 13:41

In some other games they have 'input display'. It shows the keystrokes of a player when you observe a match. It's quite easy to tell if someone is macro'ing or mashing the keys himself.

Killed u man · Feb 15, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

For every security measure you take, there's always a way around it.

Any retard can make a bot, given the right tools (GWCA, etc) with super human behaviour.

It takes a decent programmer to write a bot that's undetectable in behaviour, yet is super human.

For example, writing an interrupt bot that sometimes misses interrupts (on purpose), yet on key moments will pleak an infuse/WoH so it seems like it was a lucky interrupt, tough still probably winning the game.

As for checking for keystrokes, running a bot doesn't mean you can't have manual input. For some reason, alot of uneducated people on this issue seem to assume a bot plays for you when in reality it plays with you. You can easily "spam" keystrokes to try and pick up relics fast, yet when the present drops, your bot will ALSO send in keystrokes, just super fast. (Speed of your ping pretty much)
This would be completely undetectable from an observer's point of view, as you'dd have no way to distinguish real keystrokes from botted ones.

The only way is detecting injections/interference with GW.exe. To get that, there have to be several EULA changes, aswell as a severe security overhaul and maybe even legal agreements. (With microsoft where they give Anet permission to scan the computer for injections) As usually is my case with this issue: I don't know the exact knowhow and numbers, but I do know the basis and structure.

Detecting injections such as currently exist (A new wave of interrupt bots is starting to emerge going by RA standards as of last week) would be nearly impossible on Anet's part, unless through visual conformation.

And we all know how capable NCSoft's employees are at that. (Or anything for that matter)

Paradise Lost · Feb 16, 2011, 10:09 AM // 10:09

The last banning spree was sparked by the injected .DLL which the bot injected. But this time they don't need to inject a .DLL. Just go look at "that botting site" which can't be named for obvious reasons but can be found on google. Theres plenty of things on there that have been running for months now undetected. Bots haven't gone away they've just got stronger.

Shakkara · Feb 17, 2011, 07:12 AM // 07:12

I'm sometimes tempted to just make a bot to play my secondary accounts inside a virtual machine to assist my main char in PVE, so multiple accounts get VQ and missions done. I can play two or three accounts manually and still be succesful in HM and the elite areas, but anything above that becomes a disorganized mess.

Always wondered why Anet doesn't capitalize on this need and actually sells such things as a service, like a lot of Asian games do. Especially in PVE, since you're not affecting anyone else.

Bots and macros in PVP, where you do affect others, should be acted against, obviously.

Silverblad3 · Mar 17, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Seen some posts by folks about a stealth update last recently that has something to do with key strokes, as well as seeing a few bans being issued about automated clickers (macros, programmes etc). Though I am not sure of the accuracy of the method used by Anet, as one person got banned at the same time as another person was using it and contiuned to use it for a further 24 hours at least before he decided it was not worth the risk (in case you are wondering it was for the drunken title). It was not me as I have maxed 35 titles over a year ago

Anyway, can anyone validate this or provide more detail? I am wondering whether or not Snowball GvG 2011 will be worth playing with the huge ammount of cheats as it nets them over 10 stacks of zkeys. More importantly it ruins the fun of geniune players who want a fair competitive environment.

Cheers

Silver

Nymph of Meliai · Dec 28, 2011, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I like to play AT for fun - I try not to take it too seriously but it does get annoying when your opponent is using macros and it is obvious when they are doing so. It is also a little obvious when they are using bots.
An example of macros being used is when you are up close blocking the person running the present and have knocked them down with a stoned snowball as well as having slowed them down, the present drops and although you click it as soon as it appears, your stood right next to it, the opponent manages to beat you to picking it up. An example of bots is when the opponent team is actually boasting that there are only 3 of them playing but manage to play a full team together between 'the multiple accounts' hitting you with more than 3 players simultaneously and basically the team behaving as if they had more than 4 hench playing - using the exact same fighting techniques that hench use.
Personally, I find it sad that people feel the need to cheat (and macros is cheating) in what is supposed to be a game - a bit of a laugh not to be taken too seriously. It is like facing one guy with 4 hench and 3 afkers. You offer to do 1v1 or 2v2 because you want to have some fun, but they insist on flagging their hench on the god avatar or on presents as they appear... its all a bit sad really.
It's just a game, and should not be taken too seriously but it is not much fun when the opponent is being a jerk. You just give a big sigh and wonder why you bother trying to have some fun in a game full of cheats.

Raven Wing · Dec 28, 2011, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I am a member of a major alliance [TIG] that is mainly pve. We got a few pleyers who now and then make teams for HA or gvg, but I never heard someone in ally or guild chat trying to assemble a team for snowball AT. MY guess is that we are prejudiced, its either elitists or botters. Now I am not entitled to speak on behalf of the TIG alliance but this is my guess that a large portion of the player mass simply ignores the snowball AT and similar events because they expect it to be dominated by elitists or botters. The TIG guild I am leader of got 99 members atm and I havent felt the slightest urge to attempt to lead some of my guildies into such a battle.

Missing HB · Dec 28, 2011, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nymph of Meliai

An example of macros being used is when you are up close blocking the person running the present and have knocked them down with a stoned snowball as well as having slowed them down, the present drops and although you click it as soon as it appears, your stood right next to it, the opponent manages to beat you to picking it up.

If you are using the mouse to pick presents , then you're doing it wrong and many( non botters) will pick faster anyway.. I recommend you to associate Targeting : Item- Nearest to R ( especially if you use letters to move) and try to spam it + space when present is going to be dropped..

An easy way to beat the bot is to cancel cast spam having hidden rock on your self, because the bot will instant DnD, wherever you are( even if you're 10 meters away and guy could just dodge with the present)

bennyandthejets · Dec 28, 2011, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Yeah I tried the snow pvp event for the first time this year. Will never do it again. One of the players on the opposing team was somehow picking up presents before they were even visible on the ground. I could hardly tell what was even going on.

A-net please address this...

*lemming* · Dec 28, 2011, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Technically, multiboxing guilds to exploit the absurd amounts of RPs that snowball ATs dole out isn't "botting."

It's exploitative, sure, but I suspect that it also wouldn't be a problem were the participation bonus not so high.

BladeDVD · Dec 28, 2011, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Technically, multiboxing guilds to exploit the absurd amounts of RPs that snowball ATs dole out isn't "botting."

It's exploitative, sure, but I suspect that it also wouldn't be a problem were the participation bonus not so high.

I don't really PVP and so don't know the rules as well, but isn't this match manipulation and therefore, against the rules?

Missing HB · Dec 28, 2011, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

I don't really PVP and so don't know the rules as well, but isn't this match manipulation and therefore, against the rules?

Probably 70% of the PvP population today is doing match manipulation, as a result of incredible rewards and lack of activity in formats.. Sure it's annoying when you can't do anything but watching those people reap rewards..

That's why i keep arguing about heroes for years, because today we can only say the reward is what's left in PvP. There has to be a consequent reward so the format isn't empty( a.k.a AB) and not be too high so it's not totally abused( i.e Codex, who got strongboxes in addition)...
You can't find a solution at the state of the game, so having henchs allowed will just make everyone equal towards people using multi launch with many accounts and reaping rewards...
Sure it will be annoying to face those, but it's still better than having restarts forever....

About snowball At's, i think that there would be the same amount of players, whatever the reward was, because it will still be free rewards for those people...

makosi · Dec 28, 2011, 09:56 AM // 09:56

A couple of days ago I did Snowball for this first time in ages. I got 28 zkeys (ridiculous) from winning about 5 matches in the tournament then we were knocked out by a team who could drop presents and pick them up without them being visible. I have the semicolon key assigned to 'target nearest object' and i was spamming it alternately with spacebar but didn't manage to pick up one dropped gift for the whole match. In order for us to win at the later stage of the Snowball ATs we're going to have to use the macros also.

The second option is for the devs at Anet do something about the problem but let's be real...

drkn · Dec 28, 2011, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Probably 70% of the PvP population today is doing match manipulation, as a result of incredible rewards and lack of activity in formats.. Sure it's annoying when you can't do anything but watching those people reap rewards..

High rewards and lack of real activity don't allow or even justify cheating. Manipulating matches, farming rewards via leavers on dual accounts, using bots - all of them are bannable offences and that '70% of the PvP population' should be outright punished. It doesn't matter that the PvP format will die out after that, and that 'manipulating matches is all we have left to do' - it's cheating, nonetheless.

I'd suggest using fraps every time you enter the SAT, and if you record any illegal activity, submit it to ANet via their official support forum. If they get enough complaints, i'm sure they'll let the banhammer out and/or fix some stuff.

One thing is to use autoclicker to drink thousands of eggnogs without killing your mouse, whilst cheating against other players - or exploiting the system for outright rewards - is quite serious, even though it's 'only a game'.

e: agreed with bhavv down there about macros. Still, there should be an official statement on macros from keyboards and programs.

bhavv · Dec 28, 2011, 11:00 AM // 11:00

The thing about macros is that if a person pays for an expensive macro keyboard for their games, why shouldnt they be allowed to use it? Everyone has the opportunity to do this, and some people might have legitimate reasons like fractured arms / disability and macros could allow them to play and enjoy the game.

As long as they are sat at the keyboard and pressing keys, I have no issue with macros (I dont use macros as I can play well without them, but others can if they want to).

Yuris Sayuri · Dec 28, 2011, 01:15 PM // 13:15

One Year ago it was possible to beat those macros with tacitcs/skill.
Nowadays its simply impossible because of the flux.
Awesome idea, Anet, to destroy another game after TA, HB, Costum Brawl etc.

Btw. Even if ur'e hammering on ur space bar like there's no tomorrow, u won't come close to the frequenzy of a macro.

Fluffy Kittens · Dec 28, 2011, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuris Sayuri

Btw. Even if ur'e hammering on ur space bar like there's no tomorrow, u won't come close to the frequenzy of a macro.

I can confirm that. Usually against non bot teams I'm the first one to pick up present since I pretty much tap my space button like crazy. But for example, earlier today there were american players on euro servers and they picked up the present faster than me each time. It's really not enjoyable to face cheaters like that, it's just too sad that people cheat even in snowball. I guess rewards are just too important and since Anet doesn't even try to stop them they'll just keep abusing over and over again.