Curse

dynamiccutie · Dec 31, 2010, 12:12 AM // 00:12

some of you are in denial. anet was able to detect the first version of GWCA purely because source was released. anet wont ban any current bots in use, especially anything not even gwca based.

Silverblad3 · Dec 31, 2010, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polgara Val

Correct me if im wrong but arent Macros pretty much legit and Anet mentioned that technically it isint really "cheating" since you still need to press a couple of buttons to execute it?

Pol

I have followed many threads on this issue and never seen it officially sanctioned by Anet, source please.

If macros are legit go go drop, side step, select nearest item and action in one freaking key stroke. GG skill huh?

Really....

Silver

*lemming* · Dec 31, 2010, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polgara Val

I do agree with you on some points, the problem I find that its the same old excuse for people who simply feel if someone is so good and there dominating albeit AtS or RbR then there probably cheating.

Undoubtedly, anger has something to do with it. However, to dismiss all accusations out of hand as a result of jealousy is ignorant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polgara Val

Correct me if im wrong but arent Macros pretty much legit and Anet mentioned that technically it isint really "cheating" since you still need to press a couple of buttons to execute it?

Anet has sanctioned G15 macros that don't "play the game for you." Whether or not pickup-spam macros fall under that is only borderline debatable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

If anyone was using injections or anything like that, I am sure we will be seeing Dhuum soon enough in Kamadan when people are trying to pawn off their rewards.

By all accounts, Anet doesn't know how to detect or deal with the methods used currently.

Juhgis · Dec 31, 2010, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

For some weird reason, players who are capable of nothing of value (outside these events) manage to beat the most experienced PvP players, and on top of that, all those "noname players" (Read: Not known to be good at GW, as opposed to GvG'ers) happen to be in the same guilds and alliances?

All these players we just discussed being miracilously good at snowball also happen to pick up presents faster than people known to have incredible reflexes/connections. (Think [sup], passive, spank, almost every top 20 euro GvG player)

Picking up a present isn't skill, unlike what many players from dth and MoO would like us to believe. It's a combination of ping and getting as much clicks/target nearest item + action combos in the least amount of time.

I still don't get one thing, why do you keep comparing TOP GvGers to events like this ? Of course you can't ever expect same results as they do on their "daily" basis around the year on a different game format. Very, very understandable. If some could compare these game formats like they'd be on the same level, they'd be totally blind.

Hardcore players vs casual players, result: you know it. Same applies for GvG's.

And what comes to picking up a present, it's all about luck (meaning: ping, clicks + actions / defined time) unless you're facing a bot/macro/whatsoever, like you said there. Don't get me wrong, but I'm really surprised if you thought some of us would be giving wrong information about this matter.

PS. I've played with Yuri a.k.a. your defined BOTTER the past 4 years, and yes, I can beat him and his "trianglish" dodge moves (hardcore event gamer vs hardcore event gamer, what can happen ?). What, that defines me as a botter aswell ? Oh dear. Who's blind again ?

Polgara Val · Dec 31, 2010, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Undoubtedly, anger has something to do with it. However, to dismiss all accusations out of hand as a result of jealousy is ignorant.

Yep, im not dissmising there accusations completely, just I feel the majority that get frustrated are the ones pointing fingers.

Pol

Dre · Dec 31, 2010, 01:32 AM // 01:32

For some reason, I see Dhuum polishing his scythe ^^

I'm pretty sure Anet will launch another ban-wave
(maybe as part of the dervish update: scythes autokill bots ^^)

Killed u man · Dec 31, 2010, 02:25 AM // 02:25

I'm think too many people believe I get all mad behind my computer over botting in RBR and snowball. I don't. However, the reason why I keep making these threads, or bringing up the related issues because I do care.

I care that there is french people out there farming 5+ beetles each year, and selling those individually for 300+ dollar each, and as a result, I don't get one. (I was 103th orso last year)

I care that there is people farming 2000+USD worth of zkeys, selling them on black market sites (and if you wanna be evil: care that they push the prices down of zkeys by selling them in such large masses), and as a result keeping me and my guild from better prices.

I don't get mad over it. I don't throw my mic at the wall every time I loose to someone whom I expect to be botting, I will, however, raise awareness of this issue any way I can, and do everything, to a reasonable extend, I can to get these players the punishment they deserve.

For some reason, this gets labeled as "Mad", but I'll just leave it at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juhgis

I still don't get one thing, why do you keep comparing TOP GvGers to events like this ? Of course you can't ever expect same results as they do on their "daily" basis around the year on a different game format. Very, very understandable. If some could compare these game formats like they'd be on the same level, they'd be totally blind.

I compare top GvG'ers, because top GvG'ers have proven to be good at GW. I know that under current conditions, it's a highly doubtfull statement, but anyone slightly involved in PvP would know Candygirl, the brittish players (passive), spank, hadshi, and so on.

I pick these players because they are good at GW, as a whole. You can claim "Snowball is something completely different", but it's not. It's still the same game, abiding the same rules and conditions, played in the same way every other aspect is played.

On top of that, Snowball fights can hardly be concidered 'hard' tactical wise. Rezzing every 5 seconds is largely part of this, but still.

The truth is that Snowball fights can be reduced to a very simply essence, that essence being: picking up the present faster than your opponent. Drop n Dodging is all good and well, and a "skill" that should definatly be promoted, but in order to DnD, you first need to be able to pick up the present.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juhgis

And what comes to picking up a present, it's all about luck (meaning: ping, clicks + actions / defined time) unless you're facing a bot/macro/whatsoever, like you said there. Don't get me wrong, but I'm really surprised if you thought some of us would be giving wrong information about this matter.

And this is where we disagree. You say it's about luck, I say it's about "skill". The person who can offer the server the "pick up" command the fastest will pick up said relic. And this is where the bot comes in. A real player will never be as fast as the bot I've previously mentioned, because 1 ms, in game time, is the absolute fastest reaction one could possible have. Add to that your ping, and you've got a reaction time far below what is remotely human possible.

The only chance you, as a player, have against a bot is spamming the pickup command, and "hoping" one of your spikes comes before the bot's reaction. (So your packet left right before the enemy dropped the relic) And the truth here is that this doesn't happen alot. I've already explained the example where I outpicked up 3 of my friends for 10 minutes straight, and they dind't manage to steal the flag more than a couple of times. (Like 5 out of 1000) Even then this was largely to blame on the fact I had GW minimized and I was browing some websites. Only goes to show that with minimal processor resources, a bot will still be faster than 3 highly focused players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juhgis

PS. I've played with Yuri a.k.a. your defined BOTTER the past 4 years, and yes, I can beat him and his "trianglish" dodge moves (hardcore event gamer vs hardcore event gamer, what can happen ?). What, that defines me as a botter aswell ? Oh dear. Who's blind again ?

I've played against Yuri aswell. I've beaten him numerous of times during RBR, and I've outpicked up him during snowball. I'm not targetting anyone individually, because the people running bots know they are. If you legitimatly know you're not botting, what are you getting so upset about?

But hey, I invite anyone to post a video of him playing snowballs. I even dared Yuri, and many other MoO or dth members whom I directly or indirectly accused of botting to post a video of them playing snowball and performing DnD's.

I know it's alot of effort, but to proove for once and for all, it seemed a reasonable offer.

Noone replied to said invitation to allow people to watch how "the pro players" play snowball.

crazy daggerfighter · Dec 31, 2010, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I'm not targetting anyone individually, because the people running bots know they are. If you legitimatly know you're not botting, what are you getting so upset about?

What about your name going bad? Every time you come in an outpost and people will start flaming you for stuff you don't do?

Please LEARN TO LOSE Borat!

Missing HB · Dec 31, 2010, 10:00 AM // 10:00

They should have made some history for guilds , in order to make tournaments groups more balanced. I don't really like when , on every single tournament , 1 group is won by [LR] , 2nd one is won by [hf] and 3rd one won by [MoO]. This happens on almost every single AT...Point is that those guilds are playing 24/7 , unlike majority of others , thus some others are still good , but can't have same level than those( you can also think of bots , although i don't think [MoO] i don't really know for other 2 ..)

It would have been more interesting with some history to match same level guilds then on same group. You then can't know who is gonna win amongst those 3 , and for other groups it's kinda same..

crazy daggerfighter · Dec 31, 2010, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

It would have been more interesting with some history to match same level guilds then on same group. You then can't know who is gonna win amongst those 3 , and for other groups it's kinda same..

That would be impossible since guilds will just make a smurf to get into the lower ranked group.

Balky · Dec 31, 2010, 10:46 AM // 10:46

* Stands next to Killed You ...I must be mad then because I Care Too, i`ve even gone as far to download gamecam so i can vid the various JQ bots in action , just to upload them on to the 2 month long support ticket i have going.

shadows of hob · Dec 31, 2010, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Funny thread, it are always the same people defending the bots and the cheaters.

I consider myself a pretty good sb-player, but competing against these 24/7 guilds is just too much.

makosi · Dec 31, 2010, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy daggerfighter

What about your name going bad? Every time you come in an outpost and people will start flaming you for stuff you don't do?

Please LEARN TO LOSE Borat!

But he's usually right, much to the dismay of botters, exploiters who deny their wrongdoings, as well as people who play gimmicky overpowered crap under the illusion that they're skilled.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Gandhi.

thedukesd · Dec 31, 2010, 11:16 AM // 11:16

One of the main reasons I don't pvp are the bots (not funny to see a me rupting all my 1/4 spells and never failing at rupts (had 1 skill 3/4 activation time rest 1/4 or no activation time and surprise he rupted me everytime i was using 1/4 spells, didn't even tried to use the 3/4 one cause it was obvisous the result) and he was not just spamming rupts on me cause i watched him ). I didn't even did snowball this year with my chars, but I saw on my father chars what is happening (teaching my father to play gw).

I come to gw from a game where 95% of the players use bots (got tired of being one of the few legit players in that game) cause at least in gw the bots don't affect me directly in pve.

papryk · Dec 31, 2010, 11:24 AM // 11:24

I lol'd.... 1 minute research on google then u can find a GWCA v3 that is claimed to be undetectable....

I wonder when will be the second wave of massive ban....

Silverblad3 · Dec 31, 2010, 11:28 AM // 11:28

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...tml?t=10464550

See above link to thread, some people here think macros are legit, whilst some folks in the above thread say its not legal. The community is divided on this or perhaps spreading misinformation to justify their use of macros. Well being as there is no source proof currently being brought forward then anyone using a macro is on very thin ice.

Anyone who is not using the bots and macros, has skill or is just bad has nothing to lose whatsoever. No one here needs to defend anyone, if and when Anet decide to do anything then it will be more then evident who was botting or using complex/simple macros.

If your good at the game you also have nothing to lose, so why are some folks getting all defensive or are in denial?

Silver

Killed u man · Dec 31, 2010, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Well, anyone who thinks macros are "OK" is pretty ignorant. Heck, I run simply auto-it scripts (self made) myself for stuff such as drunkard and pumping sweets.

It's been established since 2005 that not a single macro is "OK". Any software or hardware that interferes with GW in such a way it wasn't intended (INCLUDING G15) can get you banned.

The main confusion comes from keyboard macros, but people need to understand:

A keyboard macro is exactly the same as a software macro.

If you have a keyboard macro to spam keyclicks at superhuman rate (for spamming stacks of sweets), there is no way NCSoft will be able to tell the difference between that keyboard, or you running an actual script.

Does this mean everyone using G15's or basic clicking scripts get banned? No.

Why not? Because they are tolerated.

People confused that with "allowed" or sometimes even "promoted by", which is offcourse 3 different things. It's highly doubtfull anyone will get banned for a very basic clicking script, but as guru threads have shown, some people did, in fact, get banned for G15 scripts.

However, the question then rises: did they leave their script on running for days on straight? If so, the anwser is pretty obvious...

And on top of all this: Anyone who plays PvP with scripts (weapon swap, ...) should know they're only fooling themselves. PvP should be played for the challenge, not for the rewards, and hence: it's never a true victory if you have advantages your opponent doesn't have.

That why I myself only play GW in it's purest form. I don't use bots, macros, overlays (enemy party window), so that when I do beat someone (who might or might not be botting), I know that I am undoubtingly better. -Given the fact that other factors line up offcourse, such as builds-

The bots were talking about here, however, are far from macros. They are bots that play the game for you, and all a player running these bots has to do is "walk around". (As it would be really hard to code a decent positioning script, so just leave that to a player of reasonable skill)

As a matter of fact:

Anyone who mastered the DnD skill (similar to weaponswapping for BBwarrior) would find that simply "knowing" when a KD"ing snowball is incomming, would be enough to perform a good DnD. So a simple overlay that warns you when a KD'ing snowball is incomming/being cast would be enough of a help to turn an otherwise "average" player in a godlike one.

iRONKNIGHT · Dec 31, 2010, 12:26 PM // 12:26

If all the lowlifes in the Guilds that got the top position think you're so good, then why dont you stop using your Macro's? (or for the bolder ones the Bots) and let's see just how "PRO" you become.. that's what i think...

Admit it you're just too afriad to let some random NOOB whom will beat you time and time again, crushing your failed ego even more.

after all Cheaters if making 20 extra zkeys at the end of a game tournament makes you feel more competent about yourself because naturally you dont have the True Tallent of the so called " NOOBS" then more power to you bot and macro on..

smokestar · Dec 31, 2010, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRONKNIGHT

If all the lowlifes in the Guilds that got the top position think you're so good, then why dont you stop using your Macro's? (or for the bolder ones the Bots) and let's see just how "PRO" you become.. that's what i think...

Admit it you're just too afriad to let some random NOOB whom will beat you time and time again, crushing your failed ego even more.

after all Cheaters if making 20 extra zkeys at the end of a game tournament makes you feel more competent about yourself because naturally you dont have the True Tallent of the so called " NOOBS" then more power to you bot and macro on..

Rember kiddys if you got no skill and you want to look cool you can allways cheat and if that fails just ebay

ok so ive been playing a fair few snowball ats allmost every round every day and i can say with out a doubt that there are players useing bots or marcos.
on that note we can all say, That bots are BAD. and marcos well heres the thing there bad as well, hear me out on this target iteam +pick up on one key i mean dosent seam to bad when you just do that well lets take it one step more and go target iteam + pickup x2 on one key then we can keep going and make it x100 or even x1000
sure its easy enfu to do and everyone can do it but then it becoms point less.

Bob_ftw · Dec 31, 2010, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Bots should have a 100% success rate, due to packet reading ect... however these players that are supposedly "botting", can and do fail all the time. If you knew how to play against dnd, you can pretty much guarentee taking the present when you have a kd snowball.