Curse

Fay Vert · Jan 08, 2012, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I would prefer RA if there could only be one on a team of any profession. Add player ratings to the match making (at least as a factor) RA would be so much better. At least nobody could use the noob accusation because you would know they are the same skill as you.

MithranArkanere · Jan 08, 2012, 11:51 PM // 23:51

GW skills work in a way that makes them more balanced the bigger the party size is. There's also dedicated healers than make teams that have them or not very different in terms of power.
That gives random party formats a luck factor that is too big, and the party size of 4 only accentuates that.
This is why there just can't be 1vs1 in GW.

The first step to balance RA would make GWO's profession more similar to GW2's.
- The ability to have two alternate builds you can switch under certain circumstances (e.g: As a monk, set a smiter and hybrid healing-protecion one, if you happen to join with other 3 healers, you can just switch to smite instead having a fight of willpower with the other party to see who resigns first).
- Drastically maim dedicated healing with things like limits in the number of heal-other skills you can bring. (we all know this is not going to happen, it's one of the reasons for GW2).
After that, the difference between two teams would rely less in luck when matching(or syncing trickery) and more in actual skill.

But then, team-based formats like HA or GvG would be greatly damaged.
So, the only thing left would be improving the match-making algorithm by checking the skills in parties, preventing skills from bein repeated as much as possible, and spreading heal-other skills as much as possible. Which I don't think it's currently possible.

This is the kind of thing that if it was possible would have been done already, like Razah's variable profession, that didn't happen until it was technically possible.

Fay Vert · Jan 09, 2012, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Certainly, any change would have to be easy to implement. That would mean no player ratings other than what already exists eg. glad points. Limiting profession combos would be more doable.

Mokeiro · Jan 09, 2012, 01:45 AM // 01:45

MY favourite thing about "random" lol arena its:

I can play 50 matches and i get no monk in my team ever, so tired of losing at 1st or 2nd fight i decide to play my monk...

MIRAAAACLE!!!! When i choose monk, EVERY match i have another monk or maybe 2 more on my team, so someone ragequit or refuses to heal and let the team dies, usually people its so stupid and mind closed... i remember a game with a uberpowered dervish a E/me shutdown, me and another monk, the dervish was great at killinf and E too, we could won hundred games easily, but the other idiot monk just stop playing the same moment he saw another monk, so enemies killed him, then me, then me again, then the lose

Sankt Hallvard · Jan 09, 2012, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

I do understand that all of you are very good players and that you want to win all. But you have to consider the fact that RA is low-end PvP and the learning place for newbies. The best way of learning is to adapt to multiple different situations and that's why RA should stay just the way it is. As I said, I understand how frustrating it is for you really good players to lose only because you don't have a monk in team or because you don't have a melee class in team but I think you'd better be off in HA or GvG where you can have any kinds of professions in team that you want and win all.

Thread-winning post. So true and written the way I like it. Some will get it, while those whom this is directed at won't get it and thus won't get offended anyway.

RA to me is extremely frustrating to play and I can't find any motivation to play it ever again. I have, however, done my share of RA(g9) so let me just say RA was a lot more fun before. It got worse with every update. IMO the consecutive reward system is a big fail, I just don't understand why you are rewarded for consecutive wins in a random format. After the 1st match your team is no longer random. If you have a good team setup you are already being rewarded, why add more incentives? In most matches this(w, r, n, mo-ish) team will face another bad random team where half will resign as soon as the doors spring open. This team has nothing to fight for other than trying to get killed asap so they can retry from outpost. Where is the fun for either team? If you got the same reward for winning a match regardless there would be a lot more actual "fights" being played out.

superraptors · Jan 09, 2012, 06:58 AM // 06:58

love it when people use titles as an arguement, trust me if no titles were implemented for pvp, it would have died in the first year guild wars came out, EVERYONE that tombsd wanted an emote.

Missing HB · Jan 09, 2012, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

This is where population matters. With a big enough population you don't run into the problems RA has. I played LoL for a bit and the random format let me experience the PvP side of LoL in a less stressful and competitive format. The goal wasn't to win, it was to have fun. The problem with GW is it doesn't have the population to have a organized and random formats for HA.

Then on this comparaison, costume brawl would be a better random format than RA because it would have quite same characteristics as LoL/DotA :
- you can still do job 1v2-3
- you learn basics stuff such as field vision, timekills, tactics , etc...
- much less about abusing OP builds since there are shrines to cap and the map is much bigger

I don't know about you, but i find today that JQ/FA, although having many flaws, are much more fun than RA about testing build but also simply about objective, which isn't really only about spamming skills randomly...

Sankt Hallvard · Jan 09, 2012, 04:00 PM // 16:00

- Remove consecutive bonus from RA. 1 pt per win.
- Delete codex.
- Make CB permanent. Add more maps or rework RA/TA/HB maps to work with a 5-man setup. Allow for 1-2 henchmen. This arena would share aspects from AB,gvg,HA,TA,HB and so would possibly be a nice place for players from these arenas. Can't gvg due to few people? Great, CB needs only 4-5! Missing AB? Great only 4-5 needed and cap tactics still apply! Miss the team aspect playing with friends from TA? Great, a new small arena! Missing HB? Great, cap tactics apply and you can order players and maybe 1-2 hench around! ;-) Also allow for both random entry and organised entry. Maybe think of a way to give a slight handicap to teams entering organised.

Make it happen.

Coast · Jan 10, 2012, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

- Remove consecutive bonus from RA. 1 pt per win.
- Delete codex.

Make it happen.

-1pt per win ra: no ty, rather remove title from there and put ta back.
Hb back for the people who enjoyed that format.

-Codex is a nice format, don't blame Anet that nobody is in there.
Rather blame the community that is too lazy/impatient to make up builds/form teams. Deletion isn't needed here.

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 10, 2012, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

They've made some stupid decisions but people learn from their mistakes and you will just be missing out on a great looking game. Don't lie to yourself.. who isn't going to buy GW2? My 2 cents.

I'm not buying GW2 either - for several reasons. And just because you can learn from an old mistake doesn't mean you can't make a new mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

-1pt per win ra: no ty, rather remove title from there and put ta back.
Hb back for the people who enjoyed that format.

-Codex is a nice format, don't blame Anet that nobody is in there.
Rather blame the community that is too lazy/impatient to make up builds/form teams. Deletion isn't needed here.

But then the problem becomes how does a relatively new player who wants to graduate up to the higher levels of play get on a team? Rank discrimination has always been a serious issue in regards to entering PvP ever since the ranks went into effect. In order to really be more learning friendly, all forms of rank need to be eliminated from all modes of PvP.

Hanok

urania · Jan 10, 2012, 04:50 PM // 16:50

friends' list says hi.

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 11, 2012, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Well yeah, that and if you have a decent active guild. But lacking those options (say none of your friends are on at the time you have time to play), Rank discrimination is a big barrier to entry for many players.

Hanok

urania · Jan 11, 2012, 05:02 PM // 17:02

i didnt mean (only) you should be playing with friends instead of pugging, but that if there'd be no ranks to tell you (approximately) who has some exp at least and who has little to none, people would mainly form with ppl on their friend's list, their friends, their friends' friends and so on.

Sankt Hallvard · Jan 11, 2012, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

-1pt per win ra: no ty, rather remove title from there and put ta back.
Hb back for the people who enjoyed that format.

This is another case of me being quoted for half my post. The idea was to keep RA true to the random key concept and giving everyone incentive to win every match and reduce incentives for resigning to get that über-team or syncing. My idea was to make CB permanent because I believe it could serve as a common ground for these different groups of players in formats that are dead/dying. (ta, hb, ra syncers, ha, gvgwithnotenoughpplonline, ab, fa/jq, heck even as a stepping stone from pve to pvp)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

-Codex is a nice format, don't blame Anet that nobody is in there.
Rather blame the community that is too lazy/impatient to make up builds/form teams. Deletion isn't needed here.

I've heard the "blame the community"-phrase before. I guess you also blame players for "rr day" and ra syncing as well? Thing is communism would also be an awesome system if it wasn't for human nature. But being that we ARE humans wanting to maximize our personal profit we have invented an economic system based on market theory which in practice seems to work a lot better. So what would you rather have? A system that takes realities into account and work or an ideal system that will never work but retain the right to criticise its participants to feel good about yourself?

Coast · Jan 11, 2012, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Because the other half of your post was alright, I only quoted the wrong part.
An ideal system that takes realities into account

.
Ra syncing became major annoyance since the removal of ta.( yes, this was anets big mistake)

Missing HB · Jan 11, 2012, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I've heard the "blame the community"-phrase before. I guess you also blame players for "rr day" and ra syncing as well? Thing is communism would also be an awesome system if it wasn't for human nature. But being that we ARE humans wanting to maximize our personal profit we have invented an economic system based on market theory which in practice seems to work a lot better. So what would you rather have? A system that takes realities into account and work or an ideal system that will never work but retain the right to criticise its participants to feel good about yourself?

/agree. The "blame the community" is a too easy word... They did their updates, yet the game called guild wars is supposed to be made around team play. Today, every single team organized format is empty, while RA/FA/JQ are still popular.. i guess there is a problem ?

The community is responsible for abusing those formats and finishing killing them off, but if something was done to ban obvious match manipulation with multi launch, then maybe people would think twice before doing it .Come on, that PvP version of great snowball fight of gods, which was synced and abused since the 1st day, was probably their second epic fail after codex arena....
What they did with codex was horrible( no link at all with HB, no tournament implemented, no support behind), so they deserve a blame...It's partly about players lazyness, but let's be honest, you think there would be that many more players if it was team arenas?

His idea of costume brawl is probably the best since it's still some kind of random, people will still be able to sync it anyway, and it won't be just about smashing your bar against no heal and winning every 10 sec..People will have to learn how effective their build is, learn tactics, basics, etc....Actually replacing codex with such an arena would be great and fit well with GW2 ideas...

MithranArkanere · Jan 11, 2012, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Random formats are like casual FPSs like TF2 open servers. Anyone joins in, and those that are good get more score. It's mainly just about fun. You can have fun even if you lose or have horribly shameful blunders.

Party-formats are like the higher end of competitive FPSs. People make teams, and they often get rather elitists about who they let join. They want results, after all.

There's nothing wrong with higher-end of competition, but it's always easier to hit a button an join a team for sure in less than a couple of minutes that depending on being picked by some leader like when forming teams to play games in recess, which may lead to you being picked last or left out.

That's why I'd rather have a both a random-party version and a team version of all PvP modes.

But then the party version will likely get empty, played only by the higher end of the PvP community. Well, the current players would become the higher end, since such a change would likely attract more casual players to those modes, not having the requirement of being picked for parties.

Reverend Dr · Jan 11, 2012, 09:32 PM // 21:32

They had a random format for GvG in beta, but it was so horribly received they removed it.

In RA a match will last for no longer than 6 minutes and very rarely longer than that. A random GvG match will much longer and force people to stay in undesirable teams for much longer periods of time. I've been playing League of Legends and it is annoying as hell when around the 20 minute mark (when your team can first resign) your team refuses and makes the match last 40-45 minutes when it is clear that they are just not going to be able to win.

There are good reasons that the PvP formats that require more organization are bad formats to have random.