Curse

Lishy · Jan 06, 2012, 07:20 PM // 19:20

This is quite a great update. Now I wonder what would happen to Rangers and Paragons..

StormDragonZ · Jan 06, 2012, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

I call it Icy Flames

I'd call it Searing Veins.

Avatar Exico · Jan 06, 2012, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I can see spike build comming with all Mind spells, Mind Shock, Mind Freeze, Mind Burn. Now that all 3 got changed they do hard hitting dmg and got after effects too which makes them really nice. constant KD, 90% slow movement and burning what more want, sick combo right there.

DiogoSilva · Jan 06, 2012, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Commenting on the less flashy changes, Unsteady Ground and Churning Earth are great! The former can be cast so many times now, the later no longer takes forever to cast. I used them on a vanquish alongside EBSoH, and had very satisfying results. The HM changes were also noticeable to me. Most of the time, I didn't need EBSoH to deal good damage, although there were always the ocasional hard-armored mobs here and there.

So far, PvE eles don't feel overpowered too me. They feel just right, varying from excellent support and damage to little of both, depending on how many mobs are balled up and/ or how high their armor is.

Obsidian Flame is also great! It's a spammable non-elite for earth magic that is great at spiking high armored foes, and is great for PvP! It does not works with EBSoH, though, but even then I still felt it was worth sticking it to my UG/ CE build. It never once gave me exhaustion problems for the entire vanquish, so the same should apply to the new Chain Lightning, as long as you don't have Invoke alongside Chain anymore. So my fears that air got one less good non-elite skill were unfounded.

EDIT:
You guys might like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack Nickerson

@Kiki: The hero/henchman AI should be able to use their doublecast spells but they do tend to like to use them super-optimally, meaning they usually won’t use them unless they’re reaping most of the benefits of the skill. With Double Dragon, for instance, the AI might not use the skill unless both fire rings will hit enemies. That said, if you guys are finding them being used too infrequently in normal combat, I can talk with the designers and see what we want to do about tweaking the AI a little.

@Markiisi: The effect you mentioned about doublecast spells being applied to the nearest ally when you target a foe is an intended feature. Good find though, I wasn’t expecting people to notice that for a long while!

Source: https://forum.guildwars.com/forum/fo...-Skills/page/1

Avatar Exico · Jan 06, 2012, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I shocked as results with Shockwave, I had like 12 in earth magic with no runes or anything it does 150dmg aoe, I couldnt fathem of what Shockwave would do with 15 Earth. What

Just realize that Mist Form is now similar to AoD if no one notice that. Tons Mist form eles spamming water magic spells and watching whole party stay at full hp that be pretty cool.

I can see Elite build that would be all Eles now have one ele as Energy Boon and rest as Mist form Eles, and just watch all maythem begin

Ensign · Jan 06, 2012, 08:38 PM // 20:38

There are some interesting changes for PvP. Gust is very strong; the new Mirror of Ice has a lot of good tricks, and I think Mind Freeze has a lot of potential as well.

In PvE? None of the new elites will replace AP or ER on a player Ele. Losing Invoke + Chain is a substantial hit to Ele heroes. The only real buff to Eles, on the high end, is the armor reduction; everything else was rearranging the order of bad skills.

This will help with viability and variety in the mid-level and casual demographics, however - and at this point, that should be seen as the goal.

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

Commenting on the less flashy changes, Unsteady Ground and Churning Earth are great!

Yes I'm going to change stone sheath back to UG on my all elly team, I was just testing out the new skills.

Double Dragon is my favourite, the animation is just absolutely wonderful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

In PvE? None of the new elites will replace AP or ER on a player Ele. Losing Invoke + Chain is a substantial hit to Ele heroes

Sorry, but my video proves you wrong. Please stick to commenting about PVP only.

Avatar Exico · Jan 06, 2012, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I can just see eles now dominating Elite areas of Guild Wars like Paragons did when had Imbagonway build when it was full of paragons, and now might be happening again for eles cause got very nice dmg output for eles and got some nice survival too making decent Offense and Defense. Adding cons just add more OPness to eles now.

Mintha Syl · Jan 06, 2012, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

Unsteady Ground and Churning Earth are great! The former can be cast so many times now, the later no longer takes forever to cast.

Yesssss that's true. I'm really happy about those as well, call me crazy but between my 8 I've always had an earth hero with those two skills (plus wards), so even if I I didn't try the changes yet I think I'll really enjoy this one.

ashes · Jan 06, 2012, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Remember SFway in doa? Maybe well see that again, if it ever died?

Or maybe: Glyph of Energy, Arcane Echo, Meteor Shower, Air of Superiority

Swingline · Jan 06, 2012, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashes

Remember SFway in doa? Maybe well see that again, if it ever died?

Starburst > SF for DoA now

WhiteAsIce · Jan 06, 2012, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only real buff to Eles, on the high end, is the armor reduction; everything else was rearranging the order of bad skills.

GG Eles. Countless complaining has made HM harder for everyone now that foes have more health. Eles aren't doing more damage - their damage is simply being reduced less.

Avatar Exico · Jan 06, 2012, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashes

Remember SFway in doa? Maybe well see that again, if it ever died?

Or maybe: Glyph of Energy, Arcane Echo, Meteor Shower, Air of Superiority

Mist Form seems to be more suited in Elite areas cause dont need a bonder and because each player takes 33% less dmg if mob suffer from water hex. xxx% heal from a spell make whole party to full cause of all spikes go off thus adding even more survival.

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

Countless complaining has made HM harder for everyone now that foes have more health. Eles aren't doing more damage - their damage is simply being reduced less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K22dU5DnIlQ

Not hard.

And isnt HARD mode supposed to be HARD anyway? Because it isnt and never has been. It was only ever a case of finding the right builds then winning everything with ease.

Essence Snow · Jan 06, 2012, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yes I'm going to change stone sheath back to UG on my all elly team, I was just testing out the new skills.

Double Dragon is my favourite, the animation is just absolutely wonderful.

Sorry, but my video proves you wrong. Please stick to commenting about PVP only.

I know I'm usually all for any pro PvE stance, but I gotta comment on this one. I watched the vid mentioned and tbh it doesn't prove much if anything. It showed that with ele skills Ebsoh shines....always has.....that blind will negate melee dmg...always has...that the mobs in that particular area are not very diverse (all melee and 1 monk)....not a true test.

I have done much testing myself with specifically the double casting skills on heros. My findings?..They do NOT use them very well. Unless swarmed by melee mobs, heros will cast every skill in thier bar except thier elite. Humans should be able to use these in a much more efficient manner (barring some players who simply don't cast on allies).

I agree the skill animations are very nice and some of the changes are nice, but until the second part of the update hits we can only comment on what we have, and that's more show than anything tbh. Once we have the full update and can put complete bars together then we can fully justify the validity of eles.

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatar Exico

Mist Form seems to be more suited in Elite areas cause dont need a bonder and because each player takes 33% less dmg if mob suffer from water hex. xxx% heal from a spell make whole party to full cause of all spikes go off thus adding even more survival.

Im sure that the damage reduction only applies to the caster.

Spamming Burning Speed under Mist form with Frigid Armour, Glyph of elly power, Elemental Lord and Armour of Frost only heals the part for exactly 30 points per 10e cost of Burning speed at 20 water magic.

Its far less effective than just using a monk with Healing burst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I have done much testing myself with specifically the double casting skills on heros. My findings?..They do NOT use them very well. Unless swarmed by melee mobs, heros will cast every skill in thier bar except thier elite. Humans should be able to use these in a much more efficient manner (barring some players who simply don't cast on allies).

I didnt reccomend using the double cast skills on heroes, I could tell from the minute I saw them that the AI would be terrible with them. Im far too busy with RA to do any more testing, and have crashed in both my last two attempts at HM dungeons without being able to reconnect so I have no desire to try any HM dungeons yet.

The arguments thus far are:

- Invoke nerf hurts elly heroes - it doesnt, elly heroes are now a lot more valid with plenty of other elites

- Player ellys still wont use anything other than Invoke, ER, or AP - .... LOL No, look at all the people in this thread using other elites.

Prior to this update I wasnt using anything other than ER in HM, now I can actually use a lot of elly elites instead, and they work very powerfully in HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I watched the vid mentioned and tbh it doesn't prove much if anything. It showed that with ele skills Ebsoh shines....always has.....that blind will negate melee dmg...always has...that the mobs in that particular area are not very diverse (all melee and 1 monk)....not a true test..

Dont Melees in HM have more armour than casters? So if its killing those easily its not really going to struggle on casters is it? And if you're going to be using lot of ellys, taking EBSoH is always a good idea.

DiogoSilva · Jan 06, 2012, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

GG Eles. Countless complaining has made HM harder for everyone now that foes have more health. Eles aren't doing more damage - their damage is simply being reduced less.

Reduced less, and sometimes not even reduced at all. Kinda like Normal Mode, really. Meanwhile, from what I've tested, HM isn't that much harder with the update, although the battles aren't as fast as well. Not very noticeable, though, although it might be on the hardest areas.

Quote:

Once we have the full update and can put complete bars together then we can fully justify the validity of eles.

The old NM builds are back to being good again, or are even better now (Earth Magic). Yes, many of the new elites will only really shine after we get stronger or more diverse non-elite options. But there's already good new stuff to use effectively.

Quote:

I didnt reccomend using the double cast skills on heroes, I could tell from the minute I saw them that the AI would be terrible with them.

In the official GW support forum, it was mentioned that the AI uses them at the best opportunites (when they can hit enemies with the two rings). The problem is that those opportunities might not always occur, especially if the foes stay far from the elementalist hero. One of the support staff members at the forum did say, however, that they might still change how AI works if the results are not satisfying enough.

Light of Cantha · Jan 06, 2012, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

There are some interesting changes for PvP. Gust is very strong; the new Mirror of Ice has a lot of good tricks, and I think Mind Freeze has a lot of potential as well.

In PvE? None of the new elites will replace AP or ER on a player Ele. Losing Invoke + Chain is a substantial hit to Ele heroes. The only real buff to Eles, on the high end, is the armor reduction; everything else was rearranging the order of bad skills.

This will help with viability and variety in the mid-level and casual demographics, however - and at this point, that should be seen as the goal.

I leave GW for 3 years, only to come back and see you still dead on on your GW-related summations lol.

I love the update as far as utility goes, and it certainly adds flavor for PvP (maybe a couple of skills bordering on overpowered... gust?), but I really don't see it adding much in terms of damage. Tried it in Elite areas and even around capping in the shiverpeaks. Lvl 20 Rodgorts was hitting for 100 at max and as low as 60-70s. And this was just NM. Mistform is pretty cool, but it just seems like another option to ER or RoJ, an inferior one at that.

Definitely a step in the right direction tho, especially for casuals. The efficient and goal oriented crowd in high level areas? Don't see it being all that helpful.

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light of Cantha

Tried it in Elite areas and even around capping in the shiverpeaks. Lvl 20 Rodgorts was hitting for 100 at max and as low as 60-70s. And this was just NM. Mistform is pretty cool, but it just seems like another option to ER or RoJ, an inferior one at that.

With or without EBSoH? Its always a good idea to include that skill anywhere in PVE if you are using ellys.

With 19 fire magic, my Rodgorts is hitting level 26 rangers in HM shiverpeaks for 97 damage with EBSoH, that doesnt seem anywhere near as low as your numbers.

Reverend Dr · Jan 06, 2012, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K22dU5DnIlQ

Not hard.

You picked the easiest set of mobs out of the entirety of EotN. your video is not proving what you want it to prove.