Curse

Jeydra · Jan 06, 2012, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yol

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arcane_Mimicry

It wouldn't allow you to run all three, but two out of three isn't bad. Run one on your bar and the other two on hero bars and let us know which combo works best

And then Arcane Echo Arcane Mimicry and have all three, right?

The problem is, how are you going to get heroes to do the same? None of those spells are like UA, which you maintain. You are going to want to keep casting them. How are you going to achieve that with Arcane Mimicry?

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I've been testing arcane mimicry - it wont work on heroes for anything other than UA because they cast it on recharge which wastes it, and microing 7 mimicries would be a tedious nightmare.

I used Double Dragon + Arcane Mimicry with Starburst on a hero, and it was mighty powerful ... though I forgot to also use arcane echo, I will do that next.

I'm using 6 Ellys - Double Dragon, Starburst,Thunderclap, Glimmering Mark, Stone Sheath and Shatterstone plus a Healing Burst + Mimicry / UA prot monks with channeling for energy.

Heres a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K22dU5DnIlQ

I've now swapped flameburst and lava font to arcane echo and snowstorm.

Random Namos · Jan 06, 2012, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Heres a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K22dU5DnIlQ

Quite powerfull indeed!

I wonder if this is too OP

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Yes, arcane echoing the double dragon top is just lolwth how fast did everything just die?

Its fun in RA too, I'm trying Lava Arrows, Fireball, Arcane Echo, Double Dragon, Glyph of elly power, Fire attunement and aura of res, stuff just blows up dead without a monk.

Jeydra · Jan 06, 2012, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Does that build work in Slaver's HM?

Swingline · Jan 06, 2012, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Just tested HM out with a 3 ele hero build

1 B surge
2 S Flames
1 Keystone
1 SoS/resto hybrid
1 AotL MM
1 N/rt healer

My thoughts...

HM is is like that 3rd bowl of porridge, not too cold, not too hot, just right.

B surge wasn't even that great because HM melee mobs spread out to far for adjacent range.

Cracked armor is still too important imho. Don't leave home w/o it

I ran this on my ele with the new Elemental Attunement. 20 Fire Magic without cons is... O.o

Searing Heat
Teinai's Heat
Meteor
Liquid Flame
Rodgort's Invocation
Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Attunement
Fire Attunement

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 02:57 PM // 14:57

B Surge is a bad skill choice in PVE, use eruption, glimmering mark or ineptitude for blind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Does that build work in Slaver's HM?

I'm not sure if that specific build will work, but I'm going to fill a HM dungeon book with 6 ellys and 2 monks or continuously fail trying. I wont get it done anytime soon though, its just all I have left to do in the game and it will max one last title I need for a full HoM.

In dungeons it would be wise to keep the starburst hero flagged back a bit against larger mobs.

Mouse at Large · Jan 06, 2012, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Just did Shenzun Tunnels Z quest with an experimental water bar. 1st impressions are that

a) The Am Fah just melted

b) The Ministry mages are BRUTAL!!!!

c) To make the new elites truly effective, you will probably have to give up PvE skills

Btw, the bar was water attune, AoR, armour of frost, shatterstone, glowing ice, maelstrom, rust & EVAS. Not saying it's optimal, but it's certainly useable. Now all we need is a bit of love for the non-elites and we can get some bar compression back

Swingline · Jan 06, 2012, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

B Surge is a bad skill choice in PVE, use eruption, glimmering mark or ineptitude for blind.

I figured that out before hand but wanted to test it out since the spammable dmg/blind + 40/40 set looked like a good replacement for invoke but the hero didn't seem to use it as a form of anti melee like Ineptitude from my experience.

Willie Lumpkin · Jan 06, 2012, 03:31 PM // 15:31

I have a few vanquishes left to finish up in Prophecies, so I'll see how it goes with that... but I can't help but think it'll be easier for me, since my main bars just got buffed. Glyph of Energy in particular looks kind of ridiculous now.

Disappointed with the few Air nerfs though. I'll try out the perma-exhaustion just to see how it goes, but I think those two skills will definitely see reduced use. And really, of all skills, elites aren't the ones that need to be nerfed (in most cases).

I hope this hasn't changed the overall difficulty of Hard Mode too much. It's nice to see an attempt to reduce the ubiquity of SoS and replace them with Elementalists, but if HM has become overall harder, it was not really a good move.

enter_the_zone · Jan 06, 2012, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

This doesnt bother me one bit because I know what prot spirit and spirit bond are. Also a soul twisting rit with shelter would still make everything easy. You can still vanq Cantha before doing WoC, if someone plans on vanqing then its their mistake if they start WoC before completing a factions vanq.

Actually, to clarify, I don't have WoC active, it was the standard Jade Brotherhood eles in Wajjun Bazaar in HM that partywiped me. Prot spirit and spirit bond are of no use either unless you micro and precast because your monks won't have time.

If you get 2 eles together, you can kiss your arse goodbye because Double Dragon and Dragon stomp will wipe your party before heroes even have a chance to scatter. It's totally bonkers, like batshit insane.

Swingline · Jan 06, 2012, 03:41 PM // 15:41

I just got hit by distracting shot with EA half way thru casting and did not get rupted. I carry no anti rupts btw. Same thing happened earlier with rodgorts against CoF. Can anyone else confirm this?

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Actually, to clarify, I don't have WoC active, it was the standard Jade Brotherhood eles in Wajjun Bazaar in HM that partywiped me. Prot spirit and spirit bond are of no use either unless you micro and precast because your monks won't have time.

If you get 2 eles together, you can kiss your arse goodbye because Double Dragon and Dragon stomp will wipe your party before heroes even have a chance to scatter. It's totally bonkers, like batshit insane.

Oh yes those things are very hard, i remember that I struggled with many party wipes against them.

Prior to Eotn though, I managed to vanq those areas with an Earth warder build, using Melee, Elements and Stability wards, plus prot spirit on my bar. Make sure stability goes up first to prevent dragon stomp KDs, and then get the other two wards up. The PVE Ebon ward is now better and can effectively condense both melee and elemental wards into one slot as it works on everything.

I also deleted my reroll slot which currently had a 5 month old PVP mesmer, and a pre searing ranger that was only 9 months old to make room for 2 more elly heroes, so I now have an 8 elly team for PVE

Though I dont think that an E/Rt healer and E/Mo protter will work as well as my healing burst + mimicry / UA prot monks.

Jeydra · Jan 06, 2012, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Ok concluding that the biggest change this update brought was to make hero Elementalists weaker, thank you very much nerf to Invoke + Chain Lightning. Nothing else in the update is of much consequence, save slight buffs to player AP Fire and AP Earth. The other skills are all glitzy with no substance, for primary Elementalists in PvE at least. Star Burst might see some play on primary Warriors in PvP (maybe even in PvE), Gust will probably see play in PvP as well, maybe a few other skills, but they're all weak for primary Elementalists in PvE - both players and heroes. Maybe at most a maverick player can opt for one of those in easier areas, but if he attempts to carry those builds to harder areas he'll wipe AND have precious few options to salvage the run. Like it or not, Elementalists are inflexible, and you have hardly a fraction of the sustained power that original, pre-update builds have.

It's going to be a struggle to replace the original hero Invoke template. Sad, but that's just how it goes.

As for Double Dragon and Dragon's Stomp stomping parties, just learn to aggro them right and you should have no trouble.

bhavv · Jan 06, 2012, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I disagree that the update made elly heroes weaker, invoke and chain lightning were rarely ever used in PVE, and they still work if you simply use either one on an Air hero.

I'll be trying this out eventually, all I want to do atm is play RA.

Coast · Jan 06, 2012, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Invoke and chain are nerfed cause if was far too easy to spike with them in pvp.
U can still run one or the other and use they often enough.
Also: u wanted higher hp, so there u got it.

Jeydra · Jan 06, 2012, 04:35 PM // 16:35

To be honest with you, you make me angry.

Invoke and Chain Lightning were the best damage skills for Elementalists, prior to their nerf. They are spammable, they are unavoidable, they deal heavy, fully ranged AoE damage. There is no comparison. Just because you and all the other Rt/N/Me worshipers out there did not use them does not change the fact that Elementalist heroes were excellent. Post update Invoke is still usable ... alone. Not with Chain Lightning. And guess what: Air Magic suffers the same things that Water, Fire and Earth do. There aren't enough good non-elite skills out there to use. The original Invoke template is dead, and there does not seem to be a replacement.

It's your call not to use the best skills out there, and I don't care what you do. I'll just point out that you are having trouble with WoC, not to mention almost walk past a mob after they aggroed onto your heroes, not to mention aggro mobs without your preparations up, not to mention you don't call targets, and you actually suggested Ward of Stability to deal with Dragon's Stomp instead of the far more effective, universally useful methods of splitting heroes up + interrupting Dragon's Stomp.

I don't care what you do, it's up to you. But I swear, you are annoying. That is all.

DiogoSilva · Jan 06, 2012, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Post update Invoke is still usable ... alone. Not with Chain Lightning.

I wonder, can Thunderclap + Chain Lightning be a good alternative? Less range, and not so much for spike damage; but the extra adjacent-range cracked armor and rupts might make it strong enough. The main problem remains: lack of good non-elite air skills, especially because the new T.C. makes Lightning Orb a bit redudant.

BTW, how noticeable are the HM changes so far? My Shatterstone, out of the 105 potential damage, did 65 against Ministry of Purity spellcasters in HM. Does this applies to all foes, or does it fare better against other stuff?

Lanier · Jan 06, 2012, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Does it seem to anyone else that elemental damage is actually doing less damage in PvE, or is it just me?

I haven't messed around too much yet with my elemental damage builds, but it seems to me as though the yellow numbers I see are the same, if not lower, than what I saw prior to the update.

Jeydra · Jan 06, 2012, 04:53 PM // 16:53

@DiogoSilva - Yes, it's possible, but the damage lost is quite severe.

Invoke @ 16 Air vs. AL 100, 80 and 60 dummies does 75, 95 and 125 damage respectively.
Thunderclap @ 16 Air vs. AL 100, 80 and 60 dummies does 42, 53 and 70 damage respectively.

The damage lost is serious even after accounting for Cracked Armour, and you lose out on the range as well. You get Weakness in return, but who cares about Weakness? Cracked Armour is more significant, but you'd have to run more armour-sensitive damage to take advantage of it. More Eles? Something might turn up, but if there's a solution it's not obvious.

As for HM armour changes, it's definitely there, but not very significant. It varies between monsters, but something like 10 armour or so is a good estimate.