Curse

Principa Discordia · Jun 09, 2005, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seron

i see, so the x800xl is better suited for future games than the 6600gt is what you're saying, quality whise.

what is the fps with the x800xl since 60-80 is with the 6600gt oc, and how do i see my fps when playing guild wars, i havn't been able to check it.

Basically, it comes down to the preference between performance and value.

The X800 XL costs a lot more than the 6600 GT, but it will last a lot longer. In current games you'll get similar framerates to the 6600 GT, to be honest with you, as the 6600 GT is more than enough to handle modern games. You'll only really begin to notice a big difference in a year from now.

On the flip-side, the 6600 GT is a fantastically priced graphics card with 18-24+ months of life left in it. It also supports SLI (which can further increase lifespan) and it supports Pixel Shader 3 which I think ATI cards currently do not.

When it comes down to it, with the X800 XL you get what you pay for. A standard high-end graphics card that will outlast a 6600 GT. With the 6600 GT you actually get more than you're paying for as it performs shockingly well for a mid-range graphics card, however the 6600 GT will not last as long as an X800 XL will.

But, saying that, pretty soon both the 6600 GT will be out of date. If you want my particular opinion, get a 6600 GT now and it will last you until the Geforce 7800 GTX, and whatever equivalent ATI make, drop in price.

Dirkiess · Jun 09, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seron

i see, so the x800xl is better suited for future games than the 6600gt is what you're saying, quality whise.

what is the fps with the x800xl since 60-80 is with the 6600gt oc, and how do i see my fps when playing guild wars, i havn't been able to check it.

Seron, I have an X800pro and running all the top of the range games with my setup is great. However, at the time I bought my X800pro, NVidia were lacking in product supply at the time and the X800pro was the card of choice for me at the time as Nvidia were way over the top on price.

Where I am in the UK, trying to get either Nvidia or ATI for equivalant cards, I was looking at over £100 more for an NVidia where the ATI was just as good on performance if not better for what was available.

If you have no real problem at all with spending money, don't really care what you buy as long as it's got the Best performance money can buy at this time(Not bang for buck, but buck for bang.

) then as Principa has already said, the ATI X850xt PCI Express is the best you can get.

However, that would need a PCI Express Mobo which is more expense. But like i said, if money is no object then go the whole hog.

If you are just after something to run the latest games smoothly, then as people are saying the 6600GT(If i read that right) is the best you can get at this moment for the cheapest price for performance over other cards out there.

It's entirely up to you. Read what you see here, but if i was you, i would go for the Nvidia 6600GT for Price to peformance ratio and save your money for the new Batch of GPU's to be released by ATI and NVidia in the near future. Both look Awesome, and if based anything on the new PS3 and Xbox consoles, the graphics are going to be astounding.

Now, to silence all those people out there saying the Nvidia has better picture quality the ATI, or ATI has better picture than Nvidia.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the king of the roost on Picture quality is Matrox. Always has been and probably always will be.

I have a Matrox Parhelia card and it blows my X800pro out of the water for clarity and crisp picture on all my monitors.

Ok, my ATI has improved some over past cards, but Matrox still win on that front. They have some of the Best GPU's out there for that type of thing. The reason they are in the High End business market for CAD.

And yes, I know, "But Matrox doesn't play 3D games very well!! "

I totally agree, the reason i bought my X800pro as Matrox weren;t cutting it anymore in that field.

As for my all time favourite Nvidia, it has to be the Geforce TNT 2 GT Ultra. That card blew everything I had out the water and everything ran as smooth as silk. Half Life on that card, with the AMD 400mhz Mark 3 chip or whatever it was, was so smooth, I couldn't believe it. Tried it on a faster machine, and boy did it chug. I just wish I could put a machine together like that again, without any adjustments.

And to the guy who mentioned he hated NVidia because the Card blew up within 3 months, don't blame Nvidia, they don't make the cards, only the GPU's. If the card blew up, it was due to bad manufacturing.

Dirkiess · Jun 09, 2005, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

On the flip-side, the 6600 GT is a fantastically priced graphics card with 18-24+ months of life left in it. It also supports SLI (which can further increase lifespan) and it supports Pixel Shader 3 which I think ATI cards currently do not.

The really funny thing is, Nvidia and ATI all say they support something or other out there, but who in there right mind can say what has ever been used to full effect before a new card or game has been produced.

I agree with you though, some of these cards have more than enough shelf life left and no point in spending on over the top power as I really don't think it's needed, as games are not being produced fast enough to make use of all the effects before the next GPU release.

The only one really losing out is the user anyway. They over spend for unneeded product.

Principa Discordia · Jun 09, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkiess

If you are just after something to run the latest games smoothly, then as people are saying the 6600GT(If i read that right) is the best you can get at this moment for the cheapest price for performance over other cards out there.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say, but I happen to be horrible when it comes to explaining what I mean.

The 6600GT is the best bang for the buck right now, but as Dirkiess said, not the best "buck for the bang."

Buying a 6600GT now will give you fantastic performance for just enough time until the next generation graphics cards drop in price. The way I see it, there's absolutely no point in buying a 6800 Ultra or X800 XT with the 7800 and ATI equivalent coming out this very summer.

I always buy "one tier down". If you buy a 6800/X800 series now, you'll only be shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to price because this summer they'll drop dramatically, yet they still won't offer much performance over the 6600/X700 a year from now when the 7800 series is cheap.

Principa Discordia · Jun 09, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkiess

The really funny thing is, Nvidia and ATI all say they support something or other out there, but who in there right mind can say what has ever been used to full effect before a new card or game has been produced.

Errrr, huh?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but games have supported SLI and pixel shader 3.0 for some time now.

Which means ATI are behind where Nvidia are already using this technology.

Diplo · Jun 09, 2005, 11:14 AM // 11:14

I'd agree, a 6600GT has the best performance value of any new card around today (though the last-generation Radeon 9800 pro is probably even better value but lacking a bit in shader performance in newer games). Get a 6600GT and you can't go wrong and they come in both AGP and PCIe flavours, too.

Principa Discordia · Jun 09, 2005, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diplo

I'd agree, a 6600GT has the best performance value of any new card around today (though the last-generation Radeon 9800 pro is probably even better value but lacking a bit in shader performance in newer games). Get a 6600GT and you can't go wrong and they come in both AGP and PCIe flavours, too.

I'm affraid I'll have to vhemently disagree with you that a Radeon 9800 Pro is better value, or anywhere near the value, of a 6600GT.

The Radeon 9800 Pro is currently £95, and the 6600GT is currently £110. For £15 extra (practically nothing) you get a much faster graphics card with GDDR3 memory and full support for DirectX 9c. Not to mention support for SLI and HDTV output.

The 6600GT's ATI equivalent is the X700 Pro, and even that does not measure up. Period.

Dirkiess · Jun 09, 2005, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Errrr, huh?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but games have supported SLI and pixel shader 3.0 for some time now.

Which means ATI are behind where Nvidia are already using this technology.

What i was trying to say, is a lot of the games that are coming out today were being developed way before any of these features were even available. Half Life 2 and Doom 3 were being touted before even X800 and 6000series cards were even mainstream.

Ok, they may have had some sort of reference boards available, but going by a lot of reviews on boards and games, there is always remarks, that this card has this and that, but why bother when the games don't even have those features.

I could be wrong, but i'm going by what i read in all the tech and game reviews.

And the only reason I remember this is the Pixel Shader 3 comment. ATI decided not to go this route, as games were not using this feature, so they went for price and power over extra options. Or something along those lines.
And some of these comments were coming from game developers as well.

I'm only going by what I read. This is no Hard Facts on my part.

And I have no idea how SLI works, but I thought SLI was the combination of two cards power turned into one, that is run by hardware and drivers software making the game think it is one card? Not necessarily supported but more just compatible with those features.

Principa Discordia · Jun 09, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Actually, as far as Pixel Shader 3.0 is concerned, many titles do support it. In fact, I'm pretty damn positive Half Life 2 and Doom 3 are included, as is Guild Wars, Star Wars Galaxies, and even Lego Star Wars (tehee).

Edit: Oh, and damn it looks good too.

As for SLI, it's pretty much universally supported. Of all the SLI systems I've have seen, none have had any problem running a game at full strength. *Shrug.*

Dirkiess · Jun 09, 2005, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Actually, as far as Pixel Shader 3.0 is concerned, many titles do support it. In fact, I'm pretty damn positive Half Life 2 and Doom 3 are included, as is Guild Wars, Star Wars Galaxies, and even Lego Star Wars (tehee).

Edit: Oh, and damn it looks good too.

As for SLI, it's pretty much universally supported. Of all the SLI systems I've have seen, none have had any problem running a game at full strength. *Shrug.*

I just go along with the flow, buy my card and game and play. hehe

If it looks good, all the better. lol

Oh, and HL2 and Doom 3 do look pretty damn good, I will definitely agree oin that.

Diplo · Jun 09, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

I'm affraid I'll have to vhemently disagree with you that a Radeon 9800 Pro is better value, or anywhere near the value, of a 6600GT.

It depends what games you play and how much of a budget you are on. If you mainly play older games (ones that are not dependent so much on shader performance) then the 9800 pro is better value for money. You can get a 9800 Pro for around £70 now ( eg. overclockers.co.uk) and in benchmarks of older titles it holds it own pretty well.

Personally I would always say get the 6600GT if you can afford it. It's the better card and has SM3.0 support and is definitely worth the extra. However, if you are on a tight budget then you can pick up 9800 pro really cheap (I've seen some for around £50 but can't find the link) which is great value. You just have to be able to see a balanced view and not be blinkered by loyalty to a particular IHV.

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jun 09, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

SO if you decide to go with the 6600gt, I strongly suggest the BFG factory overclocked model. I got it. Let me say it roxers. Not only that but it has a lifetime warranty. Mot the typical shelflife based lifetime warranty this is a real if it breaks ten years from now we'll replace it warranty

Principa Discordia · Jun 09, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diplo

It depends what games you play and how much of a budget you are on. If you mainly play older games (ones that are not dependent so much on shader performance) then the 9800 pro is better value for money. You can get a 9800 Pro for around £70 now ( eg. overclockers.co.uk) and in benchmarks of older titles it holds it own pretty well.

Just curious, but you do know that's the "This week only" page, right? I shop from the same site, the standard sale 9800 Pro is £93 plus change there.

Quote:

Personally I would always say get the 6600GT if you can afford it. It's the better card and has SM3.0 support and is definitely worth the extra. However, if you are on a tight budget then you can pick up 9800 pro really cheap (I've seen some for around £50 but can't find the link) which is great value. You just have to be able to see a balanced view and not be blinkered by loyalty to a particular IHV.

If you're on a tight budget, you go for a 9600, not a 9800.

Seron · Jun 09, 2005, 01:47 PM // 13:47

here is the stats on the one i'm looking at 6600gt pre-overclocked HIGHER than the bfg model by about 25

Model
Brand ASUS
Model EN6600GT/TOP/TD/128M
Chipset
GPU Geforce 6600GT
Core clock 550MHz
PixelPipelines 8
Memory
Memory Clock 1100MHz
Memory Size 128MB
Memory Interface 128-bit
Memory Type GDDR3
3D API
DirectX DirectX 9
OpenGL OpenGL 1.5
Interface
Interface PCI-Express x16
Ports
D-SUB 1
DVI 1
TV-Out S-Video/Composite Out
VIVO No
TV Tuner No
General
RAMDAC 400 MHz
Max Resolution 2048x1536
SLI Supported Yes
Operating Systems Supported Windows 2000/XP
System Requirements Intel Pentium 4 Prescott class processor or higher (LGA775 processor package) or AMD Sempron/Athlon
A PCI Express compliant Motherboard with a x16 lane bus compliant slot
128MB System RAM (256MB recommended)
CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
VGA or DVI-I compatible monitor
Features
Features NVIDIA CineFX 3.0 Technology
Powers the next generation of cinematic realism. Full support for Microsoft DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 3.0 enables stunning and complex special effects. Next-generation shader architecture delivers faster and smoother gameplay.
64-Bit Texture Filtering and Blending
Based on the OpenEXR technology from Industrial Light and Magic, NVIDIA's 64-bit texture implementation sets new standards for image clarity and quality through floating point capabilities in shading, filtering, texturing, and blending.
NVIDIA UltraShadow II Technology
Enhances the performance of bleeding-edge games, like id Software's Doom III, that feature complex scenes with multiple light sources and objects. Second-generation technology delivers more than 4X the shadow processing power over the previous generation.
Intellisample 3.0
The industry's fastest antialiasing delivers ultra-realistic visuals, with no jagged edges, at lightning-fast speeds. Visual quality is taken to new heights through a new rotated grid sampling pattern.
Vertex Shaders 3.0
Pixel Shaders 3.0
Packaging
Package Contents S-Video/Composite Cable
DVI to VGA adapter
Manual
Drivers CD

the bfg is still better than this even though it's overclock is lower? the bfg costs more too.

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jun 09, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seron

here is the stats on the one i'm looking at 6600gt pre-overclocked HIGHER than the bfg model by about 25

Model
Brand ASUS
Model EN6600GT/TOP/TD/128M
Chipset
GPU Geforce 6600GT
Core clock 550MHz
PixelPipelines 8
Memory
Memory Clock 1100MHz
Memory Size 128MB
Memory Interface 128-bit
Memory Type GDDR3
3D API
DirectX DirectX 9
OpenGL OpenGL 1.5
Interface
Interface PCI-Express x16
Ports
D-SUB 1
DVI 1
TV-Out S-Video/Composite Out
VIVO No
TV Tuner No
General
RAMDAC 400 MHz
Max Resolution 2048x1536
SLI Supported Yes
Operating Systems Supported Windows 2000/XP
System Requirements Intel Pentium 4 Prescott class processor or higher (LGA775 processor package) or AMD Sempron/Athlon
A PCI Express compliant Motherboard with a x16 lane bus compliant slot
128MB System RAM (256MB recommended)
CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
VGA or DVI-I compatible monitor
Features
Features NVIDIA CineFX 3.0 Technology
Powers the next generation of cinematic realism. Full support for Microsoft DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 3.0 enables stunning and complex special effects. Next-generation shader architecture delivers faster and smoother gameplay.
64-Bit Texture Filtering and Blending
Based on the OpenEXR technology from Industrial Light and Magic, NVIDIA's 64-bit texture implementation sets new standards for image clarity and quality through floating point capabilities in shading, filtering, texturing, and blending.
NVIDIA UltraShadow II Technology
Enhances the performance of bleeding-edge games, like id Software's Doom III, that feature complex scenes with multiple light sources and objects. Second-generation technology delivers more than 4X the shadow processing power over the previous generation.
Intellisample 3.0
The industry's fastest antialiasing delivers ultra-realistic visuals, with no jagged edges, at lightning-fast speeds. Visual quality is taken to new heights through a new rotated grid sampling pattern.
Vertex Shaders 3.0
Pixel Shaders 3.0
Packaging
Package Contents S-Video/Composite Cable
DVI to VGA adapter
Manual
Drivers CD

the bfg is still better than this even though it's overclock is lower? the bfg costs more too.

SOund good but i would still consider the BFG cause of the warranty and trust me it will run at 550 and 1100 without breaking a sweat

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

don't buy an OC'd card from Asus....

EnDinG · Jun 09, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

*Hugs his Leadtek card.* Does me well enough. =P

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jun 09, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnDinG

*Hugs his Leadtek card.* Does me well enough. =P

now that's funny right there I don't care whu you ur. heheh

Bezerker · Jun 09, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Lets be honest now people, a ATI card would work better for Guild Wars.Guild Wars has optimized their engine for ATI cards. Now yes Nvidia has good cards, and yes ATI does aswell. Comparing them imo is useless, you can compare all you want, and even if facts state one card is better then another some people will still say that 6800GT is better or that x850 is better. Lets not forget every PC has a mind of its own, some will run better with ATI some with Nvidia, i have 2 pcs' if i placed my ATI in the other one i have i get NOTHING but problems, while in this PC it runs smooth as silk. Imo ATI is better, cuz of my personal experience.

(owh and btw the answer to the question of my NVidia were all AGP cards)

Dirkiess · Jun 09, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bezerker

Lets be honest now people, a ATI card would work better for Guild Wars.Guild Wars has optimized their engine for ATI cards. Now yes Nvidia has good cards, and yes ATI does aswell. Comparing them imo is useless, you can compare all you want, and even if facts state one card is better then another some people will still say that 6800GT is better or that x850 is better. Lets not forget every PC has a mind of its own, some will run better with ATI some with Nvidia, i have 2 pcs' if i placed my ATI in the other one i have i get NOTHING but problems, while in this PC it runs smooth as silk. Imo ATI is better, cuz of my personal experience.

(owh and btw the answer to the question of my NVidia were all AGP cards)

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