Curse

vyom · Feb 03, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Hi, i have a computer thats has a Pentium 4 with HT 3Ghz cpu. It is a single core processor not dual-core but my computer is picking it up as 2 cpus. i know this because when i do control-alt-delete and go to performence it shows 2 cpus and it lets me set the affinity of some processes to either CPU 0 or CPU1 (or both) also, when i run dxdiag, at the cpu part it says: (word-for-word) "Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00Ghz (2 CPUs)"

anyone know why this is happening and if it will create any problems?

-thx

viper008 · Feb 03, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

IT has do with HT technology from what I've been told and no it won't give you any problems

=HT=Ingram · Feb 03, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Yea HyperThreading makes a virtural CPU for the other threading channel as far as the software is concerned.

Quote:

Definition: Hyper-Threading - A new CPU development by Intel that allows a single processor to act in a manner as a multiple CPU system using multithreading. Applications and operating systems must be written with multithreading to take full advantage of this architecture.

So ... Programs like Windows XP Pro or Server, Or Lindows that allow Multiproccessor use this option... Home, 98SE, ME however can not exploit this feature...

vyom · Feb 03, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

k, thx for the quick and helpful answers!

swaaye · Feb 03, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Games usually run faster without HT from what I've read (I think). You may want to see if you can disable HT... maybe other P4 people can be more helpful on this.

EternalTempest · Feb 03, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

From what I've seen Gw has no issues with dual cores (it just doesn't use the 2nd real or vitrual cpu).

If it did, any Amd X2, and Intel real dual core cpu's users would have issues.
HT been around for a while and I only know of one game (Syberia and they have a patch) where HT/Dual cpu's had issues).

(edit)Found it, there was a very similar thread on this
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...Hyperthreading

swaaye · Feb 04, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I don't mean problems persay. More like just a lower overall framerate. Hyperthreading is sort of a hack to boost P4's execution speed, by sending it more things to do at once. P4 is the only architecture that can benefit from HT. The pipeline is like 30 stages and if the pipeline stalls, the whole chip sits idle for many clocks. HT sends the CPU more stuff to reduce the penalty of those stalls. I remember seeing some benchmarks in reviews showing that games didn't benefit from HT. Some apps do, some dont.

A real dual CPU or dual core won't lose performance, it just won't gain much. Display drivers are starting to benefit from dual core. My dual core Opteron uses a bit of CPU power on the 2nd core in GW I've seen.

Kaguya · Feb 04, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaaye

The pipeline is like 30 stages and if the pipeline stalls, the whole chip sits idle for many clocks. HT sends the CPU more stuff to reduce the penalty of those stalls. I remember seeing some benchmarks in reviews showing that games didn't benefit from HT. Some apps do, some dont.

Correct. Long pipeline on Intel HT systems give it performance boost on linear programs, ones that do one and same thing over and over again without multiple paths to split on, like compressing stuff and probably most of office programs. HT 'predicts' on 'if's of the code, where the program will go. More the if's there is in the code, more prediction HT has to do, and if these predictions go wrong, the whole pipeline is full of stuff that isn't supposed to be executed. Games have a lot of ifs as there's a ton of stuff happening at once, things that affect each other a lot, so HT guesses wrong multiple times while playing, slowing performance.

Omega X · Feb 04, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

AMD's 64 and newer processors sport Hyper Transport which is very similar to Hyper Threading and can also take advantage of more than one thread.

Omega Complex · Feb 04, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

In essence, the Computer sees 2 logical processors because of the overall speed. Mine does the same thing. And GW has no issues with Dual Core, but it wont utilize both cores, most current programs don't. Its only the high end engineering that is traditionally designed to support the full use of both cores.

Ghozer · Feb 04, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Older computers see it as this, update your BIOS (refer to your Motherboard instructions on how to do this) and it might stop... IT wont affect anything having it showing 2 like this, its just the older (early HT) motherboards

EF2NYD · Feb 05, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

My Pentium 4 with HT enabled allows me to play two copies of GW simultaneously (e.g. farming UW with 55 and SS) on WinXP. Running with HT disabled creates lag issues when trying to play both at the same time, though GW does run smoother. Tested with an Athlon 64 3200, same problem. If you're not much of a multitasker, I suggest turning off HT.

Kaguya · Feb 05, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

AMD's 64 and newer processors sport Hyper Transport which is very similar to Hyper Threading and can also take advantage of more than one thread.

Nope, Hyper Transport has nothing in common with Hyper Threading, except the word 'Hyper'. New AMD64 processors can take advantage of extra thread, because they are Dualcores

Hyper Transport increases the speed which CPU chats with other components on the computer, while Hyper Threading increases the speed which the CPU does stuff, theoretically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/DevelopWithAMD/0,,30_2252_2353,00.html

HyperTransport technology is a high-speed, low latency, point-to-point link designed to increase the communication speed between integrated circuits in computers, servers, embedded systems, and networking and telecommunications equipment up to 48 times faster than some existing technologies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.intel.com/technology/hyperthread/

Hyper-Threading Technology (HT Technology) provides thread-level parallelism on each processor, resulting in more efficient use of processor resources, higher processing throughput, and improved performance on today's multi-threaded software.

thedonutman · Feb 05, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

The hyper transport link is the link between the CPU and the northbridge

you usually adjust it for overclocking.

=HT=Ingram · Feb 06, 2006, 10:44 AM // 10:44

in the motherboard there is normally a way to turn HT off. This changes the hardware profile to ACPI Uniprocessor rather then Dual processor. That should give you a boost in a game like GW... Most games don't exploit the Dual chip configuration... I wish more did.. But they will come around as the aging OS market starts to catch up to the technology...

Omega X · Feb 06, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Nope, Hyper Transport has nothing in common with Hyper Threading, except the word 'Hyper'. New AMD64 processors can take advantage of extra thread, because they are Dualcores

Hyper Transport increases the speed which CPU chats with other components on the computer, while Hyper Threading increases the speed which the CPU does stuff, theoretically.

That's not completely true.

A P4's HyperThreading actually involves allowing the CPU to process more than one thread which is why a virtual cpu is seen. This was done due to the long pipes that the P4s use often made it slower in some instances.

HyperTransport is the replacement of the FSB in a basic sense for AMD. But it also allows the Athlon 64 to process on the rise and fall of a clock cycle. Combined with the shorter pipes and dramatic increase in bandwidth, in a sense allows it to take on more than one thread.

Two different concepts that try to achieve the same goal.

SaucE · Feb 07, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

I have HT enabled and have great performance ingame. IMO turning HT off will make it worse.

Specs:

Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHz w/HT
512MB DDR400
ATI Moblity 9700 128MB
60GB 5400RPM HDD

(Game runs like a charm.)

Kaguya · Feb 07, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Two different concepts that try to achieve the same goal.

Two entirely different concepts that try to archieve same goal, faster working computer.

Doesn't make the two technologies similar in any way, you can't compare an airplane to a car by saying their goal is moving people from place A to place B faster.

Omega X · Feb 07, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Two entirely different concepts that try to archieve same goal, faster working computer.

Doesn't make the two technologies similar in any way, you can't compare an airplane to a car by saying their goal is moving people from place A to place B faster.

Transportation is Transportation. No matter what scenario you may bring up, they all are there for the same purpose.

Kaguya · Feb 07, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Transportation is Transportation. No matter what scenario you may bring up, they all are there for the same purpose.

But they aren't the same. Airplane flies, and car goes around much slower on ground. Airplanes are for long distance travel, car for short distance. Sure, on top level they are the same.

Same goes fort Hyper Transport/Threading, they indeed speed up the computer but that's where the stuff in common stops. You could also say that having DDR memory is similar to Hyper Threading since they make the computer function faster. To me atleast, those are two entirely different things with nothing in common but the motherboard they are plugged into