Curse

Falrow · Apr 29, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Recently I've been having worsening connection problems, so I took out a support ticket. They suggested I run an active trace route with PingPlotter2, so they can try to find out where the problem lies. I'm sure they thought it was on my side. Unfortunately for them both my computer and my connection is rock solid on everything except GW.

For here on out things are going to get a bit technical, but it can't be helped.

So I'm messing around in tombs, and I error7. Classic story. I go look at the trace route, and what do I see?

God forbid, the playNC servers had stopped responding to ping at the same time that I error7-ed. No only that, but all the other servers on the route up to them didn't change ping at all. This is very strong evidence that the servers themself were the cause of the "Net Error 7" which Support keeps saying can only be caused by things that are out of thier hands.

I think they their servers are quite in their hands.

What does this mean? It means that many other people probably error7-ed at the same time I did. It means that NCsoft has some hosting problems and they are blaming the symptoms upon the users, and not taking responsiblility.

There are many people that have had worsing lag as the approach of Factions happened. MY theory is that they underspent on the servers for east US, thus making alot of players have sub par experience as the load starting getting up there.

Don't you think we pay enoght so that they shouldn't cheapskate us on hosting?

As for evidence, if you don't believe I'd suggest you go and download PingPlotter2 from here and load my trace route from the file here.

Want more proof? Run a continuous traceroute yourself to that IP(which was given to me by support), and when you error 7, go back and look at your log, see where the failure happened.

There's the IPs for each region:
Route for West US (206.127.149.36) 206-127-149-36.plaync.com
Route for East US (209.0.88.72) 209-0-88-72.plaync.com
Route for EU (206.127.145.228) 206-127-145-228.plaync.com

What Say You?

-Fal

trevyn · Apr 29, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Uh, it error 7s when your computer can't contact the server.

So you're saying that your computer can't contact the server when your computer can't contact the server. Brilliant!

Now, if you tried an off-site ping...

cookiemonkie · Apr 29, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

There isn't one single hosting place on the internet that has 100% reliability, if they promise that than they are false advertising unless they have some special clause to refund you for down time. If you expect packet switching to be as reliable as your old analog phone communication (not talking about dial-up) than you are wrong.

Yeah ANET can switch hosting companies, and they will run into the same problems. Even if there hosting services were 99.9% reliable, that would mean their servers are down for nearly 9 hours each year or about 1 1/2 minutes each day.

ViraX · Jun 05, 2006, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Ive started disconnecting 20 times per hour since the server update and sometimes every minute. I have verizon dsl. What isp do you have Falrow?
I am unable to play the game now and dissatisfied.

Fallen_Angel · Jun 05, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Yeah I pretty much had the exact same results running the log. After that I've been told to contact my ISP as it's apparently their fault that I can't connect to plaync.com. It was around this point that I decided that I'm done with GW until they decide to fix up their servers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiemonkie

There isn't one single hosting place on the internet that has 100% reliability, if they promise that than they are false advertising unless they have some special clause to refund you for down time. If you expect packet switching to be as reliable as your old analog phone communication (not talking about dial-up) than you are wrong.

Yeah ANET can switch hosting companies, and they will run into the same problems. Even if there hosting services were 99.9% reliable, that would mean their servers are down for nearly 9 hours each year or about 1 1/2 minutes each day.

Regardless, for myself (and numerous others based on this site), I have gone from having a perfect GW connection prior to Factions to now being disconnected at least every hour, if not more as well as getting periodic lag spikes where the game just locks up for several minutes. Not exactly what I signed up for whan I bought Factions.

GranDeWun · Jun 05, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

The strongest arguments to support the theory that the problem is on ANet's side are: 1) Most ppl report problem appeared/got worse when Factions went live; 2) Correlation to in-game actions, like changing areas; 3) 'Instant' loss of connection (ie no lag beforehand, which would indicate a poor connection.)

Falrow · Jun 05, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Also if you get an error7 and your on a voice chat like ventrilo, but it also doesn't disconnect that means the problem wasn't your connection.

Many people that have err7 durring GvGs know what I'm talking about. Thats the best proof of their server side problems, but it isn't very 'provable'.

cal_01 · Jun 06, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

This has been discussed at length in one of the other threads already (one that went to five+ pages).

Basically, alter.net is messing everything up. There's nothing much ANet can do about it (something about a service agreement), so it's basically a waiting game until alter.net decides to clean up their act.

edit: The thread is here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3030662

scrinner · Jun 06, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Isnt their a network maintenence scheduled soon? wont that.. help?

Linksys · Jun 06, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Whatever the case is, I think this post has a very good point. People of all kinds of ISP connections are getting the same problem. That says it all.

I understand that Arenanet does solve the problems, even if it takes some hours or a couple days. But I wish they wouldn't have people call their ISPs or check their computer video cards or whatever first. I'm sure there are ISP technical support people who are tired of hearing about Guild Wars, of Arenanet directing gamers to their ISP tech support. And the people who run the various ISP providers who don't like getting a bad rap for this.

Loviatar · Jun 06, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

[QUOTE=Linksys]Whatever the case is, I think this post has a very good point. People of all kinds of ISP connections are getting the same problem. That says it all.
QUOTE]

all it says is that the isps run through a main trunk which is losing packets like crazy

for those who didnt bother reading the link given here it is again

Quote:

cal_01 This has been discussed at length in one of the other threads already (one that went to five+ pages).

Basically, alter.net is messing everything up. There's nothing much ANet can do about it (something about a service agreement), so it's basically a waiting game until alter.net decides to clean up their act.

edit: The thread is here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3030662

not Anets servers

kryshnysh · Jun 06, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

not Anets servers

It could be ANets servers, but even in the case of the OP, we can't tell if thats ANets fault or the last stop before ANet.

Err7 can be caused by you pulling the plug, or the first link going out.

Similarly err7 coul be caused by ANets server or the last link up to that server (not the server before ANet's, but the link between servrs) and it would give the same ping response time. If the ISP for ANet suddenly drops a lot of packets right before the server, you have no way of distinguishing that from the server dropping a lot of packets. You would still be on voice comm, you would still have everything else work fine, you just won't be on Guild Wars.

The fact that tech support with ANet combined with other reportings (keynote, etc._ of Alter.Net problems gives credence to the fact that it isn't ANet's servers. we haven't heard from Alter.Net, so its POSSIBLE they could be lying and the problem could be with ANet (technically playNC) rather than Alter.Net.

The fact that Alter.Net started acting up shortly before Factions, tends to discredit the "Its factions" blame. Could it be factions? Yes. Could it have nothing to do with ANet? Yes. In fact, I would be willing to bet there are cases where GuildWars/ANet/PlayNC are to blame (my guess is mostly on the side of software on your computer, and random disconnects rather than constant ones), and there are cases where other factors (Internet Backbone, or otherwise) are to blame.

In short, no proof seen here, nor even good evidence.

Cassie McKnight · Jun 06, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

This is gonna sound rediculous but i have not been disconnected since i installed win98, i used to have terrible error 007 problems but no more.
And less lag too.
Just seems to me it runs better in win98, so if its possible to try running in win 98 i'd say do so and see if it makes a differance.

Falrow · Jun 06, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Probably more because you reinstalled then because you reinstalled win98.

Did you try a fresh copy of winXP? like with a drive format?

Oh, I'd like to point out my problem with Arena Net isn't that they have connection issues, whatever the cause, the problem is that they WILL NOT admit that it's their fault, even when they are aware that the problem is their side they still make the people suffering jump through every little hoop, when they could just as easily say:

"We have been have problems with our internet connection to the servers, people will experience random error 7s until we get the issue sorted out. We are doing our best to maintain quality but until then please bear with us."

Would that really hurt them so much to as admit your mistake? I'm taking business classes, and the first step in customer service when there is a problem is to take responsibility.

Falrow · Jun 06, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

It could be ANets servers, but even in the case of the OP, we can't tell if thats ANets fault or the last stop before ANet.

Same difference. We are responsible for our connection problems just as they are responsible for their connection problems. If it's the last hop before the server they should admit the problem is on their side not stand there and say:

"It wasn't me, it's YOUR FAULT"

cal_01 · Jun 06, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Falrow, please be patient with the tech support. Many times, people at the bottom or in certain areas of the tech support tree do not know what's going in the other areas.

If you have read the thread linked above, you will find that they are actually very helpful in diagnosing the problem.

Your traceroutes and screenshot have already identified the problem; alter.net is causing massive packet losses. Note that server problems may manifest in many ways: disconnects, packet losses, or even unable to resolve the server (which is my symptom, by the way).

In summary, it is understandable that this situation is frustrating since there seems to be little or no progress towards a workable solution. ANet is working, to the best of their abilities and service agreements, on a solution, you can be sure of that. Until then, be patient. (And I've been waiting for almost a month now too.)

Loviatar · Jun 06, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Same difference. We are responsible for our connection problems just as they are responsible for their connection problems. If it's the last hop before the server they should admit the problem is on their side not stand there and say:

"It wasn't me, it's YOUR FAULT"

right.

SBC DSL (example) is the last hop from the GW servers before getting to your pc and the SBC system goes gown.

obviously you as the person next to that last hop are completely responsible for maintaining the connection

or would you say

*ITS NOT MY FAULT*

Zephyr Jackson · Jun 06, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

There has been a time where 7 of my 8 teamates in HA have err7ed at the same time. i think a problem does exist somewhere.

Loviatar · Jun 06, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr Jackson

There has been a time where 7 of my 8 teamates in HA have err7ed at the same time. i think a problem does exist somewhere.

yes there is and here is where it is at along with a description of the size of the problem.

Quote:

AlterNet, aka UUNet is part of Verizon. We're not talking about a lowly ISP that you get your connection from, but one of the big boys, a Tier One carrier, the top of the ISP food chain. According to wikipedia, they are one of only 9 IPv4 (Tier one) ISPs in the world. If you read through the Tier one article, and each ISP, you'll realize that all of them (except Nippon) are in some way US companies (although not in all ways; but definitely in terms of where some of their physical network is). Almost every other ISP depends on them directly or indirectly for something...

In case some of you don't remember, we had a couple hours back in late October of last year where two of the tier ones (Verio and Level 3) couldn't communicate with each other. Not a particularly fun night, and it was only a few hours.

Falrow · Jun 07, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

right.

SBC DSL (example) is the last hop from the GW servers before getting to your pc and the SBC system goes gown.

obviously you as the person next to that last hop are completely responsible for maintaining the connection

or would you say

*ITS NOT MY FAULT*

I would take the blame if my ISP was dropping connection, because there is absolutely nothing ArenaNet can do about the problem, thus I have to solve it.

But when it's there ISP droping, they CAN do things about just as I can do things about my ISP. Change ISPs for one. Or maybe pay for a better connection. At the very least I'd be complaining until I was blue in the mouth.

My theory on the problem is that they took there East Coast servers offline, and routed the trafic to the west coast servers, giving everyone on the east coast of US and Canada major lag and connection problems.

You would think we pay them enoght for quality servers and ISPs wouldn't you?