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Oct 12, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36
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#1 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Opinions & Advice on New Computer
Well I just can't take playing on this 5 year old Dell, with 1ghz Pentium 3, 512MB RAM (which is the max it can hold) and GeForce 4 Ti4100 card. I doubt I'll be able to get more than 10 FPS when Nightfall is out.
I've been looking at new computers but being the poor college student I am, only have a budget of around $1000 USD to spend. I also need this computer to last 3-5 years, so it must be easily upgradable (unlike the #$%@ Dell). A friend helped me put together this computer on AVADirect but I wanted to get a few more opinions on it before I drop the $1000. Quote:
I don't need a new monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers or software and have a spare CDRW and DVDRW and 150GB hard drive. I kept the CD/DVD combo drive on that setup because it was only -$10 to remove it. I don't know much about computer parts but dualcore seems to be the way to go for a gaming machine. The dual video cards is nice too. I don't care about getting 100 fps on the latest games (Oblivion, Doom 3, etc) since I usually play old games anyway, but would like to have the option to upgrade when the time comes. Thanks for any advice or comments. I really appreciate the feedback.. just want to be sure I'm getting a good deal for my money! 
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Oct 13, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15
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#2 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alabama
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Dual core may be nice, but unless you are useing programs that are made to take advantage of dual cores, you are better off with a faster single core unit. Almost no games are able to take advantage of "dual core". Not even Doom, GW, or Fear see any difference between dual core and single core systems. Instead of running 1 core at 100%, they merely run both cores at around 50%.
Among the few games that are dual core aware are Oblivion and Serious Sam 2. And these games only give you a 15-30% boos over playing on a single core system. Call of Duty has a patch that claims to make it Dual Core, but it really only improves the performance by around 10%. This goes back to a discussion in another thread here. Whenever people approach me with the needs for a "budget system" (sub $2,000), I almost always stear them towards AMD processors. With the cost of the Core 2 E6400 (their next-to-lowest speed processor), you are normally better off going to AMD. For roughly the same price, you can get around 3.8-4 GHz performance. And that will beat the E6400 (2.13 GHz) every time. Asus is a great motherboard, and I would agree with using one in a system. But I would reconsider the use of a Gigabyte video card (or Gigabyte anything). Gigabyte has been having large quality control issues over the last several years, and reports show that they are near the verge of bankruptcy. I would recommend a card by a company like Sapphire or PowerColour. But you will need an operating system. The XP that came with your Dell will not be useable on a system by any other company. Unless the XP sticker says "OEM" on it, you will need another copy of Windows. And check your local stores. Around here, systems like that normally sell in the $800-900 range. I see nothing exotic in the system, so any store (or a knowledgeable buddy) could build you that system in an afternoon. But do not use your old drive. Unless it is a SATA drive, you are better off saving it for a backup drive. SATA beats IDE for performance hands down. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20
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#3 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alabama
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Side note: I would also recommend going with a single video card, along the "budget line" range ($90-145). This is because with DirectX 10 about to come out, there will be a huge drop in price and a huge increase in performance within the next 2-4 months. There is little that sucks more then spending several hundred dollars on something, only to see it replaced by something much better a few months later.
I still kick myself for settling for an AGP motherboard in 2004, and not spending the extra $125 for PCIe. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41
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#4 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Thanks! I'll definetly check around some local places now. I live in a smaller city but I know we have Circuit City, Office Max, Office Depot and Best Buy. I just thought buying from those places wouldn't allow me to pick and choose which parts I needed to save a couple hundred bucks.
I can't remember what type of hard drive the 150gb one is, but I was planning to use it as a secondary drive like I do with this computer. Would it be OK for that? I was putting all my games and downloads on that drive and only Windows on the main drive. I was thinking about the dual core because I want this computer to last a good few years, and thought it would be a wise investment. I can put in hard drives, RAM, sound card, and video card but I'm scared to mess with putting in a new motherboard or CPU since the parts are so delicate. I'd scream if I accidentally broke a $300 CPU! I'll definetly wait on the dual video cards though. Some people were telling me to wait another 6 months to buy a new computer (maybe for the DX10 thing) but this poor computer has been acting up lately. I reinstalled Windows and it's running worse than ever, so I suspect maybe some hardware is failing... I dunno. I can barely play GW anymore though, and must close EVERYTHING to get a measly 10-15 FPS. It's driving me nuts and I can't play Monk or other professions which require quick reaction time. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37
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#5 |
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Burninate Stuff
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Mexico
Profession: E/Mo
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Floppy: if you need a floppy, at least get a memory card/floppy reader....~20 bucks
Hard drive: Why 80 gig? a 250 gig is like 20 bucks more, and is you have need for more, just buy an external HD Processor: Mushroom is right, but I still think it is worth it to get a dual core. It makes multiple applications run easier, and eventually more things will b compatable Graphics card: Just one. and keep it below 150$. With technology going up so fast, its better just to upgrade to a real nice one in a few months when prices drop. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38
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#6 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The price of the old xp computers will drop dramatically when vista comes out too.
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Oct 13, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03
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#7 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jul 2006
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OK, I'll probably wait til Dec. or so then to get a new computer.
 Thanks for all the tips!
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Oct 13, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13
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#8 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stoke, England
Guild: The Godless [GOD]
Profession: W/
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Also, I'd like to add that you might think about investing in a decent PSU. That 400W one sounds like it's just a generic PSU that come with the case.
Personally, I'd dump at least a branded 580W one in there. I don't know if you can get them in the States, but this is the one I use. http://www.hipergroup.com/English/pr...hpu-4b580.html |
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Oct 13, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04
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#9 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Quote:
Stick with dual core CPUs. Single core CPUs are the suck when it comes to multitasking. If it's cheaper, go for 2 GB DDR2 533 if you never heard of overclocking. If you're using a 5 year old Dell monitor, chances are it's a 17" or 19" CRT so ditch the dual video cards and get one faster card. 2 6600GTs don't really add much anyway. 7300GT or 7600GT make nice budget cards. The XoO forums do have a tech forum too you know 
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Oct 13, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29
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#10 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Quote:
One of my friends said something about shaders (I might be mistaken though) running a lot better with dual video cards. Is there any advantage to having 2 lesser video cards over 1 nice one? Yeah, my Dell monitor is a 19" CRT but monitors are just too expensive for my budget at the moment, and 1280x1024 kinda hurts my eyes anyway hehe. I lost my password for the XoO forums a while ago but just recently got it back...  Thanks for letting me know! I'll ask around there in Dec when I hopefully buy a new computer I really appreciate all this info though... I had no idea about a lot of this and would've wasted a lot of money! Last edited by Riesz; Oct 13, 2006 at 04:32 AM // 04:32.. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50
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#11 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Dual video cards are mainly for the higher resolutions (over 1280). Any lower and the performance gains are not worth it. Even with higher resolutions, 2 6600GTs are still pretty weak. 1 7600GT will be cheaper and better. The only benefit I see from running 2 6600GTs is 2+ monitor support. A single 6600GT will run GW fairly well too, with a few things turned down. 7600GT will give you smoother gameplay with higher image quality.
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Oct 13, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54
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#12 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stoke, England
Guild: The Godless [GOD]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Here - http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/ |
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Oct 13, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18
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#13 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alabama
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Quote:
When I say "local computer store", I mean the smaller mom & pop type operations. These are often family owned, or run by an owner with a small number of employees. These stores specialize in custom building computers to meet the customer's specifications. I work at such a store (the owner, myself, and 1 other employee). And the size of the town does not matter, you probably have several in your own town. I live in the largest town in the area (130,000), and we have 6 or 7. Another town an hour away is only 45,000, and there are 4 such stores there. I wrote a post here about a month ago on how to look for a "local computer store", because they are not all alike. Sadly, just like car lots there are bad eggs mixed in, who concentrate more on making money then customer service and quality components. If you want to look, this is where it is: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10048549 One of the biggest advantage of a "custom built" machine is the upgradeability. If you get a system that has DDR2 RAM and either an LGA775 or AM2 processor, you have a cheap and easy upgrade path. You can get a cheaper processor for the moment. Then in a year, when the prices drop and faster ones come out, you can simply replace the processor. A CPU like the Dual Core units out now run from $200+. But I can guarantee that by this time next year, those same processors will be around (if not under) $100. This is where the biggest depreciation occurs in computers. 3 years ago, a 1.8 GHZ processor would have cost you around $225. Now, you can get 3 GHz processors for around $100. And a processor swap is one of the easiest things to do. Most small stores can do it in about 15 minutes, with no need to make any changes to anything else. $100 and 15 minutes, and it is like you have a new computer. One of the things I urge people about is "buying to new to fast". This industry has a long history of rapid change, and falling prices. Spending $1,000 now and $500 in 6 months will normally get you a much better system then if you spent $1,500 all at once. I normally encourage people to spend 10-20% of their computer's new value every year on upgrades. In this way, your computer will never be "old and obsolete". About the only choice you will be stuck with is your choice of processor and video card. Right now, you have Intel (LGA775) and AMD (AM2) for processors, and ATI (Crossfire) and NVidia (SLI) for dual video card solutions. Whichever motherboard you choose, make sure that it has the right combination of these two items. And don't forget, within 3 years all of these will likely be obsolete. 3 years ago the hottest things out were the Socket A Athlon, the Socket 939 Athlon 64, and the Pentium 4. Video cards were AGP only for high-end. In the last year, every one of these technologies has become obsolete. Both LGA775 and AM2 have an expected lifespan of 3 years. Both companies are already hard at work on the next 2 chip designs, which will replace both of these with something newer and more exciting. And the "which is best" constantly bounces back and forth. It always has, and always will. Intel is currently "top dog" with Core 2, but AMD plans to have quad-core processors out by the end of next year. And I am sure that Intel's next chip will come out around the same time, so the battle will only continue. I have been in this industry for over 25 years, and have seen technology come and go. This is one of the biggest reasons I encourage people to "shop local" Most shops are staffed with people like me, that track and watch trends in order to provide the latest technology to their customers. We work on such fine margins, that we can't afford to not pay attention, and see our stock become worthless as it sits on the shelf. This is one thing that the "big companies" can't do. They work in such large volume, that they are often selling "old technology" for years before finally phasing it out. We started working with SATA only drives over a year ago. Yet you can buy a brand new Compaq or Gateway today, with the old IDE drives. And with the recent mergers (Gateway & E-Machine, HP & Compaq, Dell & Alienware), this is seen even more. Prices are falling, so they cut corners in order to keep selling their priducts. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23
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#14 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Companies like Dell and Gateway are early adapters, that's why they're the only ones using the BTX form factor. SATA drives have been pretty much standard in new systems from both companies for years now. You'd probably find IDE drives on Celerons or something.
There's nothing wrong with the build posted from AVADirect, since they detail every part they're putting together for you, giving you a heads up on future upgrades. Also C2QX is already being shipped to some builders on the higher scale, which should make the C2DX fall in price considerably from those builders. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00
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#15 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: near SF, CA
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I'll also be building a new system near the end of this year... my wife's P4 1.8ghz CPU is now really showing its age. I'm leaning towards a Shuttle-sized set up for the occasional LAN parties.
Intel quad cores just started shipping to the various PC manufacturers. They should be available by Christmas EDIT: I would recommend the retail-chain PC's like Dell and Gateway only to those who don't like working around in the guts of the PC's hardware. Custom building PC's gives users the most flexibility and performance, but they have to be prepared to be their own tech support. Last edited by lord_shar; Oct 13, 2006 at 07:03 PM // 19:03.. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01
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#16 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alabama
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Quote:
BTX is a different matter however. We can order BTX cases and motherboards, but for the most part the format has been a complete failure. One of the main reasons why companies like Dell and Gateway moved to that format is to make it harder to use off the shelf parts for repairs and replacement. Dell has long used propriatory motherboards, and by moving to BTX, it prevents people from pulling the components and putting them into other cases (or by reuseing the case when the current motherboard eventually dies by putting in another motherboard). BTX sounded good on paper, but motherboard makers have found other ways to reduce heat, without having to redesign everything. In fact, it was such a failure that Intel itself (the designer of the system) scrapped it last month. Intel has already stopped making BTX motherboards, and once the current supply runs out, they will only make them "on demand" for companies like Gateway and Dell. There will be no BTX motherboards released by Intel to the consumer channel after this year. BTX has turned into the computer version of the Edsel. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45
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#17 | ||||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Guild: Penguin Village
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
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At any rate, I would definitely go with 2gb of memory and a dual core cpu, even if you do have to go with the lower end. You're just going to need these things more in the future, if you don't already. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16
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#18 | |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: near SF, CA
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Quote:
The worse mistake I've ever seen a retail PC salesman make was selling a customer a new sound card and informing him that it was an easy drop-in install. That customer came back fuming when he found out that the saleman had misrepresented the skill level required for the install. Yes, assembling PC's from the ground up is easy for some of us, but we should never assume that it's a cake-walk for everyone else. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26
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#19 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Exit 9 NJ Trnpk
Guild: The Roaming Gnomes[roam]
Profession: N/Me
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find a computter show in your area see link for possible suggestion. Take list of what you want know you rbudget maybe take a friend that is savvy comp wise and should be able to find a good deal by checking out the dealers
http://www.marketproshows.com/comput...owschedule.php |
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Oct 14, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09
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#20 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Guild: Penguin Village
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
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