Curse

alchohol · Dec 31, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

My firewalls blocked it, but I'm curious why Anet is using it?

Guild wars runs fine with Netbios outbound blocked.

Jelloblimp · Dec 31, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Disable netbios in windows altogether, (iirc) no programs use it anymore & its a security risk only atm.
Edit: good link regarding it http://www.w3schools.com/site/site_security.asp

Njaiguni Blaze · Dec 31, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Where can you find this netbios? And how can you disable it?

alchohol · Jan 01, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelloblimp

Disable netbios in windows altogether, (iirc) no programs use it anymore & its a security risk only atm.
Edit: good link regarding it http://www.w3schools.com/site/site_security.asp

Hence my concerns.

So the question remains...

Why is Anet using Netbios?

cannonfodder · Jan 01, 2007, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Then you best ask them why they are using it, no point asking here since nobody here works for Anet.

I'll let this thread run a little bit longer before I close it.

alchohol · Jan 01, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannonfodder

Then you best ask them why they are using it, no point asking here since nobody here works for Anet.

I'll let this thread run a little bit longer before I close it.

Close it? I thought this was the right place to post?

Apologies if I hit a nerve. I'm just nervous about anything wanting to use Netbios when I'm told it can be a security risk.

Does anyone know if blocking Guild Wars access to Netbios outbound is stopping some function I have missed?

Is it needed?

Guild Wars still runs fine without it as far as I can tell, but just in case I'd like to know. If it's needed I'll let it run.

Perhaps a techie out there with some knowledge about these things could help me out.

Thanks in advance.

Njaiguni Blaze · Jan 01, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Jello, that site doesn't show solutions for XP. Doesn't XP have it then? I'm a little jumpy when it comes to security risks and so.

cannonfodder · Jan 01, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

Close it? I thought this was the right place to post?

Apologies if I hit a nerve. I'm just nervous about anything wanting to use Netbios when I'm told it can be a security risk.

Does anyone know if blocking Guild Wars access to Netbios outbound is stopping some function I have missed?

Is it needed?

Guild Wars still runs fine without it as far as I can tell, but just in case I'd like to know. If it's needed I'll let it run.

Perhaps a techie out there with some knowledge about these things could help me out.

Thanks in advance.

Nope not a nerve hit, but you ask us why Anet are using, I certainly cannot tell you, so anyonelse's opinions would be just that, opinions. You will be better off asking Anet, so in my opinion this is a dud of a thread.

Jelloblimp · Jan 01, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Jello, that site doesn't show solutions for XP. Doesn't XP have it then? I'm a little jumpy when it comes to security risks and so.

http://www.petri.co.il/disable_netbi...2k_xp_2003.htm this one xplains it a bit better & hs pictures aswell.

alchohol · Jan 01, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannonfodder

Nope not a nerve hit, but you ask us why Anet are using, I certainly cannot tell you, so anyonelse's opinions would be just that, opinions. You will be better off asking Anet, so in my opinion this is a dud of a thread.

I'm not trying to be belligerent, but I was surprised at your response, and thought I had hit a nerve. There are many threads in this forum which it seems can only be "answered" by Anet, but they haven't got the "close the thread" treatment.

Close the thread if you wish, but I think the content warrants some discussion. There may be someone "outside" of Anet that can shed some light why Guild wars is using Netbios.

If you knew it could be a security risk wouldn't it interest you?

alchohol · Jan 01, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

I might also add the reason I started to look into this was the fact I started to lag like a pig.

I put my firewall (Prevx1) on expert mode to check exactly what was going on.

I've blocked anything unnecessarily accessing the internet. Guild Wars wanted to use outbound netbios at odd times. I blocked it. My lag disappeared. A coincidence? Possibly.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 01, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

You're positive you don't have some program that would happen to access the internet when you do certain things on guildwars? Say, a keylogger sending out what you type when you login or something?

BLUESHIFT · Jan 01, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Look it up on Guildwars.com support site. It will tell you why the Guild Wars client sometimes sends non-game-related network traffic.

Support Answer

Yes, this answer isn't very specific, but if you want more info just get a support ticket and ask a question.

Quote:

Question:
Why is NCsoft sending me non-game-related network traffic?
Answer:
The traffic that you are seeing is a query used to determine the health of your connection. Such queries occur when traffic from your network to a system on our network is large enough and/or lasts long enough that it may require adjustment.

These queries are harmless, and are nearly identical to what you would see with a traceroute.

alchohol · Jan 02, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

You're positive you don't have some program that would happen to access the internet when you do certain things on guildwars? Say, a keylogger sending out what you type when you login or something?

I'm positive that's not what it is. I'm careful what I allow on this pc, and have everything double checked.

alchohol · Jan 02, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUESHIFT

Look it up on Guildwars.com support site. It will tell you why the Guild Wars client sometimes sends non-game-related network traffic.

Support Answer

Yes, this answer isn't very specific, but if you want more info just get a support ticket and ask a question.

Thanks for your help.

Looks like this is the answer, but I will ask them for further info.

Cheers! ;o)

Jelloblimp · Jan 02, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

I'm positive that's not what it is. I'm careful what I allow on this pc, and have everything double checked.

Well before you run off be sure to disable NetBios completely, its no longer used nor updated.
(Good thing you have a firewall already & know whats going on, but best to close all security-holes possible).
I myself disabled it along with writer sharing several years ago & have never had any issues because doing so. (My previous post has link regarding NetBios).

cannonfodder · Jan 02, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

Close the thread if you wish, but I think the content warrants some discussion. There may be someone "outside" of Anet that can shed some light why Guild wars is using Netbios.

If you knew it could be a security risk wouldn't it interest you?

I agree the topic does warrant discussion, security always does, but the answer you require cannot be answered here.

Your last point about "someone" outside of Anet. shedding light on why Anet is using netbios does not make sense, as Anet and any games manufacturer keeps their source code a closely guarded secret.

Maybe it's just me, but I still think what your asking is impossible for anyone on here to answer, you need it straight from the horses mouth.

alchohol · Jan 02, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelloblimp

Well before you run off be sure to disable NetBios completely, its no longer used nor updated.
(Good thing you have a firewall already & know whats going on, but best to close all security-holes possible).
I myself disabled it along with writer sharing several years ago & have never had any issues because doing so. (My previous post has link regarding NetBios).

Thanks for that link. Perfect as I'm a windows 2000 pro user.

I've now disabled NetBios and I have more peace of mind.

Cheers again.

gabrial heart · Jan 02, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

NetBIOS is still a naming system provided by windows machines to talk to older 9x clients. The alternative is naming each machine by way of a dns server. A-net most likely (since thier client is a windows one) utilizes named returns for longer running connections to test the socket state, where as most (if not all) win/unix servers check for a netbios name after a dns name cannot be found. It's a typical and completely harmless setup and disabling NeBIOS over tcp-ip won't stop the query, it just won't return anything but the dns name (usually your ip). NetBIOS isn't a transfer protocol alone anymore, without tcp, doesn't do more then establish a flat space connection and naming interface on non-legacy machines and can only provide a *simpiler* browsing interface for a flat, non-dns network.

Mushroom · Jan 02, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchohol

Hence my concerns.

So the question remains...

Why is Anet using Netbios?

Even more important: How are they useing NetBIOS?

Unlike TCP/IP, NetBIOS is not a routeable protocol (it is in fact a MS version of the old IBM/Novell NetBEUI - pre-router and pre-TCP/IP). Because of this, it is really only used in local peer-to-peer networks (I am not going to get into mineutia of Tunneling Protocols).

Because it is not routeable by itself, it really will go no further then your router/modem most of the time. If you have a router (and do not have something like PPTP enabled), the router will basically ignore it, and will not send it out to the Internet.

My guess is that it is used at the local level (your computer/network), maybe to check load balance, network traffic, and stability. I really can't see how they can use it for anything more then that.

***

If I have to guess, it is probably something that is sent out occasionally by your local GW client, to check your local network load. Most games can take a huge amount of your internet bandwith, and this may simply be a way to make sure that the game is not tying up more traffic then the network allows. (IE: the NetBIOS packet reports there are 3 other computers connected to your local network, so your client "throtels down" your connection a bit - to prevent you from hogging up all the bandwidth).

And since by itself NetBIOS is not routeable, it is a good protocol to use for this puropse. Any routers will look at the packet and refuse to route it, keeping all of the "housekeeping" internal. This prevents having your internet connection from being bogged down with what is essentially an internal matter.