Curse

Makkert · Feb 11, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Hey all,

I'm pondering to purchase a new PC. My PC will be a gamer's PC (i.e. GuildWars) mostly, with some necessary components like MS Office. But I'm getting a bit lost in the wood here. So I like to have some input on the following:

- XP or Vista? (does GW have problems with Vista?)
- RAM: 1 Gig sufficient or more?
- processor: what do you recommend?
- ATI radeon or Nvidea graphics card? Which one?

thanks for any response,

Makk.

MegaMouse · Feb 11, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

My recommendation is to go to www.tigerdirect. com and look at the Systemmax line that they have. Especialy the gaming machines. Processor and video card options are completely up to teh buyer as most players have their own preference. As far as ram goes at least 1 gig of system ram no less (if you get more thats better). Just get one that fits your budget. Also relize that almost all of the systemmax line can be upgraded so you will not be stuck with something that will not run in the future. As far as VISTA goes I couldn't tell you if it will or will not run as I havent tried VISTA yet.

Mega Mouse

Lonesamurai · Feb 11, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Operating system? It depends on your personal comptence with windows, if your confident, go for Vista, if not, stick with XP

Graphics, don't go lower than a 7600GT now

Ram 1gb but if you can go 2gb

right now go for the Dual Core AM2 Athlon 64 x2's, you can pick up a 3800+ for less than £100, which is awesome for that much power

aeroclown · Feb 11, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

Check it out, you might you like the machines and the prices. You can customize almost any package.

Lonesamurai · Feb 11, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Oh, 2 quick questions:

1, where you from? helps as people can link you...

2, why MS Office? open Office is free and deos EVERYTHING that MS Office does

Makkert · Feb 11, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Thanks for the feedback so far, I appreciate every little tidbit of info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lone Samurai

1, where you from? helps as people can link you...

as you can see under my avatar, i'm from Holland.

Quote:

2, why MS Office? open Office is free and deos EVERYTHING that MS Office does

1) i'm familiar with it, and in my professional surrounding, MS Excel is awesome and more importantly: standard.
2) I still have a copy, I don't have to pay for it.

Lord Sojar · Feb 12, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

Thanks for the feedback so far, I appreciate every little tidbit of info.

as you can see under my avatar, i'm from Holland.

1) i'm familiar with it, and in my professional surrounding, MS Excel is awesome and more importantly: standard.
2) I still have a copy, I don't have to pay for it.

Hmm, too bad you live in Holland, I build insane custom computers for a very low fee.

Makkert, are you planning on building this yourself or buying a prefab system? What sort of budget are you hovering around? 800-1000 euros? 1500-2000 euros? More? That would be handy!

As far as your questions go. I don't trust Vista yet, I am waiting until over the summer, giving Microsoft a chance to find a massive system flaw that allows others to watch your every move and hack your bank accounts. That will be funny... Anywho, I think you might see my point!

1GB RAM is getting to be pretty slim on gaming rigs. I recommend 2GB+. As for processor, I work for Intel, but I am not bias. Go with a Core 2 Duo or quad core, depending on your budget. Video card, if you high end budget, 8000GS/GTX, mid range, 7900GT/GTX, lower 7600 series, really pressing for money 7300 series. I just built a client a PC for $850 USD that has a 6300 Core2 Duo, 2GBs DDR2 PC800, 7600GT, decent case, good PSU, and really decent motherboard with 160GB SATA 3.0Gb/s HDD. So you can get a decent performing PC for a low price these days!

Any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

easyg · Feb 12, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Hmm, too bad you live in Holland, I build insane custom computers for a very low fee.

1GB RAM is getting to be pretty slim on gaming rigs. I recommend 2GB+. As for processor, I work for Intel, but I am not bias. Go with a Core 2 Duo or quad core, depending on your budget. Video card, if you high end budget, 8000GS/GTX, mid range, 7900GT/GTX, lower 7600 series, really pressing for money 7300 series. I just built a client a PC for $850 USD that has a 6300 Core2 Duo, 2GBs DDR2 PC800, 7600GT, decent case, good PSU, and really decent motherboard with 160GB SATA 3.0Gb/s HDD. So you can get a decent performing PC for a low price these days!

Alas, our friend would be much better off not spending a lot of money on an nVidia 8800 or 7900 or whatever video card right now. Not when R600 and nVidia's own 8600 series are so close to launch. Not only will the 8600 represent a much more powerful option as compared with the 7900, but the prices of 7K series cards are sure to drop like a lead balloon very very shortly.

Lonesamurai · Feb 12, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Makkert, i just build my rig for less than £500 mostly from www.scan.co.uk

good rig and does everything and its only just 1 point off of full Vista capabilities

Bowman Artemis · Feb 12, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

For the video card, another option is the 8800GTS 320mb. Identical to the 8800GTS 640mb, just half the RAM. Cheaper too.

Khanduras · Feb 12, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I'm not sure how the overseas pricing would be, or even if they ship overseas, but you might look at Newegg. I just recently built a budget system, and I get a nice steady 75 FPS (all in-game video settings maxed @ 1280x1024 @ 75Hz refresh rate) in Guild Wars (heavy battles it can drop to around 60ish). I went with the following hardware...

Athlon AMD 64 X2 3800+ ($119USD)
XFX GeForce 7600GT 256MB ($140USD)
Corsair XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR2 800 ($111USD)
Windows XP Professional (Re-used)

I'm planning on getting another gigabyte of ram (identical). Not needed, but I'll notice an improvement in the other games I play. I get solid-smooth performance straight out of the box with this set-up. I got a few other things (motherboard, dvd burner & power supply) and my total cost came to $557USD.

I check out the PC Perspective Leaderboards from time to time, just to see what they recommend for system builds (based on your budget). It's bias (review site, bias? No way!), but it's been a useful tool for me.

$.02

Empedocles · Feb 13, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

Hey all,

I'm pondering to purchase a new PC. My PC will be a gamer's PC (i.e. GuildWars) mostly, with some necessary components like MS Office. But I'm getting a bit lost in the wood here. So I like to have some input on the following:

- XP or Vista? (does GW have problems with Vista?)
- RAM: 1 Gig sufficient or more?
- processor: what do you recommend?
- ATI radeon or Nvidea graphics card? Which one?
.

Hey, Makk! Feels odd to reply you here, but I couldn't resist since I ordered my set today (yes, 13th). I did somewhat lot benchmarking, and one has to take into account the prices are relative to your location ofc

. That being said, I found that Finnish prices don't differ but some 10% at most from the prices in Germany (upwards

) Further, everything is ALOT cheaper in the U.S. I'll go through on component by component basis what I decided to do and why, more opinions are welcome ofc. It would help naturally to know your budget.

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo, most likely speed-price relation in any market. Model: There are two series, 6x00 and 4x00. Roughly put, the latter is budget series, of which only 1 model has been released, namely T4300.

If you plan to overclock, T4300, at 1.8 Ghz, with 200Mhz bus and 9x multiplier makes a good candidate. If you happy with your processor speed, then perhaps 6400 or 6300. However, if you're not in a hurry, I'd advice to wait till Q2, when the midpriced 6300 and 6400 models will get their full 4Mb of L2 cache. As of now, it's disabled and 6300 and 4300 are basically the same model, differing only in their virtual machine support (which I guess normal end user doesn't do much with). Morever, Intel's planning to cut prices Q2, when 4300 drops from 160$ to 130$, which will reflect in (higher) European prices too.

Motherboard for C2D: A lot of choices, I went with Abit AB9-pro, would have gone with a stripped down model AB9, but the price difference where I live was miniscule. Abit's integrated soundcard supports dolby 5.1 encoding, which means you can get 5.1 support with just one cable. To enjoy high end sound cards like Creative's x-fi series, you need 5 cables for 5.1 cables since it doesn't have dolby.

Other candidates: Asus P5 series: I've read that some Asus P5B users have experienced a lot of noise with their P5B mobos, but that could be due to sheer popularity of the card.

Gigabyte 965P DS3 is another mid-priced decent mobo, I've read.

All mobos mentioned above do have Intel's 965-chipset, which has proven to be relatively fast. I don't much about the nvdia chipset equipped 680i mobos, but I think over 200 eur for a mobo is a bit steep, when you get a decent one for ~100-120, unless you're an enthusiast.

GPU: This is entirely up to what you're planning to do. If you want to go for the latest games, then it is, like a poster above said, a good advice to wait till Ati dx10 compatible cards go live and price competition (hopefully) begins in earnest. If you want a dx10 card right away, 8800 GTS 320 Mb might be good. I haven't checked the latest tests. However, in case you want to utilize the dx10 cards properly, you have to obtain Vista too. Xp will not get dx10 (and shader 4.0) support. Personally, I went with MSI Radeon x1950 pro, which has a better cooler than x1950 stock model. I was contemplating on passive cooled MSI 7900 GS, but I guess when run in low rpm, the card I picked should be silent enough. Both should be fast enough for GW run at 1600x1200 - thanks everyone for the feedback!

Memory: 2 Gb ddr2, 800 Mhz, if you plan to oc even slightly, 667Mhz should suffice otherwise (here they don't have virtually any difference in prices). If you're not a power user, I'd stay away from the high end Corsair memory (or other high-end stuff) and invest the money saved on faster gpu.

PSU: Antec Neohe, bequiet and Seasonic have all received favourable reviews. I bought an Antec p150 case, which contains a 430W Antec Neohe psu. For the future needs, in case you buy a case (how's that for a sentence) w/o PSU, I guess any silent 500W and upwards unit would be a good investment, the newest graphic cards tend to be powerhungry.

Hard disk. Check which has the highest Gb/euro ratio, I would reckon 320-400 Gb sized disks. I pondered between Samsung Spinpoint and Seagate Barracuda, chose the former.

Another good source for furthering your knowledge is anandtech.com

I'd like to stress these choices are relative to my needs and the local (Nordic) prices, if you're really on budget, an AMD 3800+ may be entirely advisable choice, it all boils down in which use you are planning to put your future system.

Dex · Feb 13, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

If you're going to buy a DX9 GPU and you're looking at the mid-range I wouldn't go the nVidia route. I use both ATI and nVidia and have no bias toward one or the other, but the x1900/x1950 line of GPUs is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more full-featured and future-proof (a ton more shader power) than nVidia's 7900 series. nVidia has the high-end right now, but I'd still go with ATI for a midrange card without question.

On CPUs, there are some nice deals on the Athlon X2 CPUs right now, but I'd still probably go for a Core 2 Duo. They're just significantly faster and IMHO still better bang for the buck looking to the future.

On RAM, although almost no current games truly utilize more than 1GB, 2GB is a good way to go to cover future needs, especially if you're planning to use Vista. I'm personally going to wait until Vista is more mature. I don't really need any of its new features right now, and synthetic benchmarks are showing slower performance than XP pretty much across the board. I'm sticking with XP for my production machines for now.

Fragorders · Feb 14, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Also you can try- if you want to hand pick the guts of your computer- try out www.pricewatch.com Now for my two cents.
Video card: ATI or nVidia- well I have an ATI 1950 pro with 256mb of RAM, its also cross fire (so you can use two cards at one time) and it's vista ready. I like the ATI because to me, it seems like you are getting more for your dollar as far as speed goes.
Processsor: Intell or AMD- what ever you pick get at least a duel core- people have said AMD duel cores are better for gaming- other say Intel- preference thing- I have an AMD 4400+.
RAM: You want to get at least 2gigs- perhaps more if you decide to run Vista (been told it takes 1gig right of the bat) I would go with some good brands liek Corsair, Kingston, PNY is good too- and there are sticks that are fast as well- but remember they make more heat- something to think about.
Vista or XP: I have a few folks in school with me who are talking about the issues of runing Vista and games, even problems with their LCD screen- looks like its a driver problem- I would stick with XP and if you really want vista- wait a few month for them to get all the bugs fixed.
Something else to think about- sound cards- they have a huge range as far as price goes, brands as well. With a sound card you would at least take some of the load off of the CPU- some games do the mixing with in the game itself which will lower your FPS. (frames per second)

Lots to think about- just a matter of what you want, and what you can afford. I have GW running at max settings and Im still getting on average 61 FPS with a little lag in the main cities.......hope that helps! And let us know what you get! Good luck!

Forgot to add, with the higer end video cards you will need a beefy power supply- I got a 600w, most premade computers are around the 300-400 range and depending on the video card- the factory power supply will not be suffecent...

Dex · Feb 14, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragorders

Processsor: Intell or AMD- what ever you pick get at least a duel core- people have said AMD duel cores are better for gaming- other say Intel- preference thing- I have an AMD 4400+.

AMD no longer has the lead in gaming performance. The Intel Core2 processors have taken a big lead over them. Trust me...I have an Athlon X2 4200+ and I use a Core2 E6700 at work, and the Core2 kills my X2. Also you can look at any reliable hardware site and check out the benchmarks...Core2 wins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragorders

RAM: You want to get at least 2gigs- perhaps more if you decide to run Vista (been told it takes 1gig right of the bat) I would go with some good brands liek Corsair, Kingston, PNY is good too- and there are sticks that are fast as well- but remember they make more heat- something to think about.

Hehe....some people around here are RAM crazy!

Anything over 2GB on Windows XP is OVERKILL - it does not get used by much of anything. In fact, I've ready some pretty compelling articles about Windows XP actually LOSING performance with more than 2GB. You're not going to need more than 2GB any time soon, but if you plan to run Vista 3GB or 4GB isn't out of the question if you want to be future proof.

Fragorders · Feb 14, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex

Hehe....some people around here are RAM crazy!

Anything over 2GB on Windows XP is OVERKILL - it does not get used by much of anything. In fact, I've ready some pretty compelling articles about Windows XP actually LOSING performance with more than 2GB. You're not going to need more than 2GB any time soon, but if you plan to run Vista 3GB or 4GB isn't out of the question if you want to be future proof.

Ugh- I cant believe how much RAM vista wants...ya 2gigs is good for XP-as for vista, I hope the costs of ram drops big time, or else people are going to get mad....

Lord Sojar · Feb 14, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

We still don't know his budget, all the games he wants to play, and if he can build it himself or is looking for a boutique... Makkert? WTB Response...

Empedocles · Feb 14, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragorders

Video card: ATI or nVidia- well I have an ATI 1950 pro with 256mb of RAM, its also cross fire (so you can use two cards at one time)

Not wanting to be harsh, but crossfire/sli is pretty much wasted investment in the middle-near-high end market. You get a single high-end card (currently 8800 gtx) for the price of two more inexpensive ones, and the single card will surely be faster when dx10 games hit the market - even with the current titles the difference is small, and not always favourable for the dual-systems.

Makkert · Feb 14, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

We still don't know his budget, all the games he wants to play, and if he can build it himself or is looking for a boutique... Makkert? WTB Response...

budget: I'm thinking in the range of 800 to 1200 euro. And I'm guessing it will be closer to 1200 then 800.

GuildWars is by far the most PC-demanding game i play.

and I'll probably look for someone that can put the pieces together. there is always some bloke that can do that for you for a decent price.

I want to thank everyone for all the input, it really helps me to get a picture of what is needed

PS: heyas Emp, come play soon again pls? :P

Dex · Feb 14, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empedocles

Not wanting to be harsh, but crossfire/sli is pretty much wasted investment in the middle-near-high end market. You get a single high-end card (currently 8800 gtx) for the price of two more inexpensive ones, and the single card will surely be faster when dx10 games hit the market - even with the current titles the difference is small, and not always favourable for the dual-systems.

Yeah, and IMHO SLI and Crossfire are just a waste of money across the board. I mean, if you double-up on the best GPU out there you can brag that you have the best GPU setup out there (performance levels are typically far less than double the performance of a single card) for about 6 months until the next GPU is released, which is likely to out-perform your ultra-expensive SLI setup for a small fraction of the price. Right now multi-GPU setups only really make sense for people that insist on being on the bleeding edge and are willing to pay for it.

Sillier still is pairing up two GPUs that are any less than the best available. It's far more cost-effective to simply purchase a single card equipped with the superior GPU...