Curse

Dahl · May 29, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

2 GBs ddr2 667 kingston Ram (lifetime warranty)

320 Gb seagate hard drive (5 yrs warranty)

Light Scribe DVD burner (2 yrs warranty)

cd burner

Asus m2n -Sli deluxe mother board (3 yrs warranty)

512 nivida 7600gs Graphics card (2 yrs warranty)

Dual core 4600 AM2 athalon from AMD. (3 yrs warranty)

400w true power PS (2 yrs warranty)

All of this, after taxes, after shipping, and after assembly, comes to $1200 exactly (CAD)

thanks.

***EDIT***

Make sure you read ALL POSTS before posting here. Don't make yourself look like an idiot. Things have dramatically changed.

eggrolls · May 29, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

mmm... I don't live in Canada, but it's about $800 USD including tax, shipping, case, and OS. If Google's conversion rate is right, then it's around $870 CAD, if all parts were ordered from the US, plus added shipping costs.

x1950pro is definitely faster than the 7600gs. 7600gs is low-mid range, and x1950pro is almost high range. Even if the x1950pro you're considering has only 256mb ram versus the 512mb on the 7600gs, the x1950pro is still faster.

And if you go for the x1950pro, there are some things to consider. That card eats up a lot of power, and the lowly 400W Antec may not be enough.

Also, there's the question of the SLI motherboard. SLI won't work with ATI cards, and SLI isn't cost efficient. For example, the x1950pro is faster than two 7600gs in SLI. If you choose a non-SLI motherboard, you might be able to save some money.

Dahl · May 29, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Thanks, I had a bad feeling about this guy. I guess I'll have to wait and find a new sales person before I buy a pc. the x1950 is what I told him but he insisted that since the other card is 512 it's better.

There was no OS with it by the way, I told him not to include that cause I have my own, and yes, your conversion rate is right, the canadian dollar is doing quite well right now.

I also told him i'd want a 500-600w supply as well, he insisted that this would be fine.

OH, i forgot to mention the case. It's the antec nine hundred gaming case, 200mm fan., if you google nine hundred gaming case you'll get a pic of it. It's around $90-$120 CAD.

Div · May 29, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Anyone who calls 7600gs to be low-mid range should take a look at most of the graphics cards used by 90%+ of the GW community :O

Coridan · May 29, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/...Number=5677426

check out that link...I just bought that and it works REALLLLY WELLL.

You can swap out some stuff or just use it as a reference....my opinion would be to buy the stuff yourself and if you don't know how to put it all together....once you get it take it to a local geek or local computer store and they usually build a machine for a small fee.

I think i paid $30 bucks to have my local pc store put mine together...i could have done it but didn't want to screw anything up :P

But i personally like the 1950 with this rig i get 65-70fps with high settings 60-65fps with max settings

If you are going to be going with the nvidia series I suggest go with the 8800 or 8600 line...they are atleast Dx10 compatiable...if you can wait the wait for the new 2900 or 2950 Ati series to drop in price abit.

Good Luck man. A new pc = a new game...

I was playing on an old integrated intel chipset....

Dahl · May 29, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

I wanna be able to play the next wave of games on max settings. ie. gw2 and warhammer online. I do NOT need a card that will run dx10. I don't want top of the line stuff like the 8800. No game as of today needs a card like that.

The guy who was selling this to me IS a local geek, he's supposed to be the guy I go to.

Maybe I'll just ditch the new pc for now and move onto my tv and couch. It doesn't look like anybody is legit enough to sell me what I need for a real price.

EDIT****

By the way, that price up there on my quote, yeah, that was with NO monitor at all, I'd have to buy a whole other monitor.

Matsumi · May 29, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Sounds like an up-sale kind of a guy. Some of those guys in local computer shops are almost as bad as a used car salesman. I would ignore his advice and pay more attention to what you want specifically on your new system.

Coridan · May 29, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

i wasn't suggesting that you buy my rig...its what i bought....i was trying to point you in the direction of a good place to get good items for a good price. You can do a bit of research...create an account on new egg....go thru add some stuff to your wish list....then let others take a look at it. Cut out the middle man...(the local geek who overcharges) buy what you need...and then pay someone to build it or build it yourself (although i wouldn't recommend building a "gaming" pc if u never have)

I would also suggest looking at going with the Intel Dual Core rather than the AMD prices...you can overcloak the E6320 and E6420's fairly easy with proper cooling....and get the performance of a higher end cpu. I would suggest getting a bit higher Powersupply than 400...especially if it comes with the case as these are normaly junk psu.

and as far as the next wave of games go...they will be DX10....you will notice that i didn't go with the DX10 cards either....money..it always comes down to money and the wife...and what she will let me spend on my computer. grrrrr

EDIT: here is what you have listed above would cost on newegg.com
https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion...=Dahl+Wishlist

I will post something that i would suggest in a few...the above is minus the case.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion...ridan+For+Dahl

The above is minus the case, HD, DvD burner...its a bit higher about $150 more than the other one i quoted but i think its a better machine...and still below what you was originally quoted...of course i don't know about shipping and stuff...

Mushroom · May 29, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I would take that list to a few of your local computer stores, and see what they can do to match it. I bet that you could get something almost the same, without the shipping. And an added benefit is that if you have any problems, you can take it right back to them.

The 7XXX is not a bad card, and neither is the X1950. But you need to decide if you are going to ever run in a "dual card" configuration. If you do, you have to decide on ATI (CrossFire) or NVidia (SLI) before you get your board. If you think you will never use dual-video cards, then drop the SLI and get a single card version.

A few things to look out for when you are having somebody build you a computer:

1. Get "Retail Boxed" CPU only. Sure you save a few bucks on "OEM", but you get basically no warranty (90 days at most), and you have to buy a CPU cooler (which is often more then the price difference.

2. Make sure the case has adequite cooling. That means 2 80mm (or a single 120mm) on the front AND side. And make sure the front fans blow across the hard drive.

Personally, the price sounds rather high. 2 months ago (before the latest price drop) I built myself an Athlon X2 4600, with an Asus board (M2N-E, non-SLI version of your board basically), 2 GB DDR2-667, 500 GB SATA 2 drive, Aspire X-Navigator case, SATA DVDRW, Vista Premium, and an X1650 video card. My total cost was around $900. But I also do not know how C$ compares to US$ at the moment, so it may be about right.

If I was building it today, I would have used the new ATI X2900.

Dahl · May 29, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coridan

i wasn't suggesting that you buy my rig...its what i bought....i was trying to point you in the direction of a good place to get good items for a good price. You can do a bit of research...create an account on new egg....go thru add some stuff to your wish list....then let others take a look at it. Cut out the middle man...(the local geek who overcharges) buy what you need...and then pay someone to build it or build it yourself (although i wouldn't recommend building a "gaming" pc if u never have)

I would also suggest looking at going with the Intel Dual Core rather than the AMD prices...you can overcloak the E6320 and E6420's fairly easy with proper cooling....and get the performance of a higher end cpu. I would suggest getting a bit higher Powersupply than 400...especially if it comes with the case as these are normaly junk psu.

and as far as the next wave of games go...they will be DX10....you will notice that i didn't go with the DX10 cards either....money..it always comes down to money and the wife...and what she will let me spend on my computer. grrrrr

EDIT: here is what you have listed above would cost on newegg.com
https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion...=Dahl+Wishlist

I will post something that i would suggest in a few...the above is minus the case.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion...ridan+For+Dahl

The above is minus the case, HD, DvD burner...its a bit higher about $150 more than the other one i quoted but i think its a better machine...and still below what you was originally quoted...of course i don't know about shipping and stuff...

The next wave of games will not be dx10. dx10 will not be a necessesity for years. Even guild wars can run on dx8. Warhammer and gw2 will only need dx9.

Dahl · May 29, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Mushroom, the case is 200mm. it's an antec nine hundred gaming case, which adds another $100 or so onto the price. He did change his mind about the card, I had a feeling that the saph x1950 was better, and I'm definately going to tell him to get me a better pwoer supply. Spending an extra few bucks so that I can feel comfortable and not paranoid while gaming is worth it to me.

I'm just 19, still living at home with no rent and a full time job. Every penny I earn goes right into my pocket, so a few extra bucks is no big deal.

Coridan, you said a few things that I know for sure are untrue, like dx10 being required for the next wave of games, and going with intel instead of AMD. I know for a fact that AMD is better. Also, you mentioned overclocking. Overclocking is the only thing that will void my warranty, so that's not a smart thing to do, even with the extreme cooling I have. If anything happens, then I'm a sitting duck with no warranty.

That being said, I'm gonna have to disregard everything you've said since there's a good chance it's false.

I'll check with some closer friends who build PCs for a living, and I'll get quotes from other locations. Plus, This dealer lives only a few minutes away from me, so he will let me check it out before I pay.

Syntonic · May 29, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

.....Coridan, you said a few things that I know for sure are untrue, like dx10 being required for the next wave of games, and going with intel instead of AMD. I know for a fact that AMD is better. Also, you mentioned overclocking. Overclocking is the only thing that will void my warranty, so that's not a smart thing to do, even with the extreme cooling I have. If anything happens, then I'm a sitting duck with no warranty.

That being said, I'm gonna have to disregard everything you've said since there's a good chance it's false.

Coridan isn't totally wrong in this case. You acknowledged DX10 is the wave of the future but, yes, the next wave of games will still be DX9 compatible due to the overall popularity of WinXP. You may be correct that it'll be several years before DX10 becomes the standard but if you want the latest and the greatest; there are plenty of comparisons between DX9 and DX10 next gen game differences when a game supports both. To be honest, it doesn't really make much sense to buy a top of the line DX9 card (300-400 USD+) nor to be stuck with an entry level DX10 card at the moment if you want to save money but that's my opinion.

Also, Intel Core 2 Duos simply out paces AMD's current offerings and is on track to remain so for awhile. You'll have to wait awhile for AMD to become competitive in terms of performance (next year to see how AMD performs in mainstream.) Certainly, you can purchase an AM2 board and bet on the future but right now, the best you can do now is weigh performance vs price and most of the c2d prices are cost effective for the mainstream (though the really high end c2ds are rather prohibitively expensive and not currently worth it in my opinion unless you really have money to burn.) Check any main computer enthusiast hardware site like Anandtech. If you don't like Anandtech, then Tom's hardware or Sharky Extreme or whatever - everyone is pretty much singing the same tune for the Intel Core 2 Duos.

Yes, overclocking voids the warranty but overclocking is simply icing on the cake for c2ds. You don't need to oc them for them to perform great so down the line when you feel your comp isn't up to speed, you can crank things up a notch. You can possibly get a mild but stable oc without any voltage increase at all in most cases. The problem is doing the work to find it that sweet spot but in your case, it's down the road if ever. You can always go cheaper on the memory of course if you decide that OCing will never been an issue.

nagisaki · May 29, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

*cough* AMD better then intel? That was true about a year ago... Unfortunately, AMD has fallen a bit behind after intel unleashed their first good design since the netburst fiasco. Currently, Intel has much better performance to AMD's offerings, and though AMD does have its next processor line coming out soon, its still a little ways off.

On the topic of DX10, it will not be required for some time, but it will be available very shortly, and will not take more then a year or so to become a standard.

I recommend doing some reading of your own on websites such as tom's hardware guide, anandtech, x-bit labs, ect. Technology has changed drastically in the past year, and if you're not well informed of all the changes, you may be sucked into an overpriced and slightly depreciated peice of technology.

Dahl · May 30, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntonic

Coridan isn't totally wrong in this case. You acknowledged DX10 is the wave of the future but, yes, the next wave of games will still be DX9 compatible due to the overall popularity of WinXP. You may be correct that it'll be several years before DX10 becomes the standard but if you want the latest and the greatest; there are plenty of comparisons between DX9 and DX10 next gen game differences when a game supports both. To be honest, it doesn't really make much sense to buy a top of the line DX9 card (300-400 USD+) nor to be stuck with an entry level DX10 card at the moment if you want to save money but that's my opinion.

Also, Intel Core 2 Duos simply out paces AMD's current offerings and is on track to remain so for awhile. You'll have to wait awhile for AMD to become competitive in terms of performance (next year to see how AMD performs in mainstream.) Certainly, you can purchase an AM2 board and bet on the future but right now, the best you can do now is weigh performance vs price and most of the c2d prices are cost effective for the mainstream (though the really high end c2ds are rather prohibitively expensive and not currently worth it in my opinion unless you really have money to burn.) Check any main computer enthusiast hardware site like Anandtech. If you don't like Anandtech, then Tom's hardware or Sharky Extreme or whatever - everyone is pretty much singing the same tune for the Intel Core 2 Duos.

Yes, overclocking voids the warranty but overclocking is simply icing on the cake for c2ds. You don't need to oc them for them to perform great so down the line when you feel your comp isn't up to speed, you can crank things up a notch. You can possibly get a mild but stable oc without any voltage increase at all in most cases. The problem is doing the work to find it that sweet spot but in your case, it's down the road if ever. You can always go cheaper on the memory of course if you decide that OCing will never been an issue.

The sapphire x1950 pro is $199 CAD, so it's not a ripoff. I'll inquire about the intel processor. And of course, a 550-600w psu. Other than that, everything seems okay I guess. The motherboard is fine?

Coridan · May 30, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

Coridan, you said a few things that I know for sure are untrue,

That being said, I'm gonna have to disregard everything you've said since there's a good chance it's false.

Normally i would just let something like this ride......and i will for the most part ,,, but let this be a lesson in your young life....besure you are correct before assuming someone else is wrong

if you had taken 1/10th of the time that i put into researching your problem...to verify or compare our differences you would not currently look like an ass .....

still my last bit of advice is: that you get memory that has the same speed as your motherboard.
and if you aren't getting an NVIDIA card then don't go with the SLI mobo...

Gimme Money Plzkthx · May 30, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

I wouldn't buy the comp listed there, the 7600 is an outdated card, even if you don't want dx10. Get a 7900 or an ATI 1950, but then a 400w power supply probably won't be enough. If you're not getting an nvidia card, don't use an nvidia/SLI mobo. I was too lazy to look up the clock speeds for that AMD, so no comment on that (intel ftw). Also, stay away from retail or local stores (tax blows) and mainstream brands like dell. Since you're looking for value and brands like alienware or falcon-NW aren't an option, go with some of the brands that advertise in gaming magazines, such as cyberpowerpc, ibuypower, or abs.

Kyuuba · May 30, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

are u considered about noise because the antec 900 is NOT a quiet case.
i also recently bought a system, and i live in canada.

my total without monitor/speakers/keyboard/mouse/pheripherals. (case + components only) is around $1000.

here are my specs:
intel core 2 duo e4300
asus p5b-e
patriot extreme performance memory 2x1GB DDR2-800
nVidia Geforce 8600GT
samsung spinpoint P SATA II 160GB
antec solo
corsair hx520
samsung dvd burner SATA.

as it is today, it is better to go with Intel Core 2 Duo, even the e4300 i have is better if not equivalent to the amd x2 4400+
depending on your budget either save and go with a e4300 or try and get a e6420.

motherboard, intel chipsets are usually the best for intel processors.
Unless u plan on running dual graphics in SLI, stick to an intel chipset.
Now that the new intel chipset (P35) has come out, that would be a good motherboard to carry you for 1-2 years. look for the asus p5k series.

memory is best to get DDR2 800MHz speed, 2x1GB kits can be pick up for around $150-180
i recommend Crucial Ballistix, Mushkin XP, Corsair XMS or Patriot Extreme Performance.
Cheaper kits go as low as $100-120 after rebates, these are mostly OCZ products.

Graphic card, although u may not need dx10, it is worth getting something like a 8600GT @ $160. They already beat the 7900GS and sometimes even the 7900GT in performance at resolutions 1280x1024 and below.
if u plan on playing games in higher resolutions, u'd want a card with mroe memory bit and memory overall.
8800GTS are around $350 now, if you can save here and there it may be possible to get one
otherwise 8600GT or 8600GTS will be fine for all of the "up coming" games, may not full maxed but very near.

my 8600GT runs GW with everything maxed + AA 4x at a constant 60 FPS (dont know how to increase cap).

Hard drive capacity is up to you. Western digital or samsung are both the better choices today. look for SATA or SATAII

Case is up to you. choose one that u like in terms of looks or features.
antec makes good quiet cases, p182 for example.
antec 900 is good for air flow and cooling but is very noisy since it has solid walls all around like antec solo or p182.
the new antec sonata III is also a good quiet case and it comes with a 500w PSU i believe.

Power supply, anything around 450-550w is enough for today and at least another year or so, assuming your not running like 5 hard drives, dual graphics and quad core processor.
best brands in terms of efficiency and quiet are antec, corsair, seasonic, silverstone, zalman

DVD burners is totally up to you what you want. preferably look for those that are SATA so that u dont have the big fat wires in the case.

recap:
cpu: intel core 2 duo (any)
motherboard: asus brand preferably. intel p35 chipset if no SLI
memory: ddr2 800, crucial, corsair, patriot, mushkin
graphics: 8600GT/GTS or 8800GTS 320MB
hard drive: samsung/western digital SATA
case: any or antec
power supply: 450w-500w
dvd burner: any with SATA
8/8 components of a computer.

i dont know where you live in canada specifically, but for me i was able to get all my parts from local stores, (3 local stores in the GTA).
u dont always have to listen to the "tech guys" at store, they usually just want to sell you the stuff to make the most profit or some products they are trying 2 clear out. they make up a lot of stuff with big numbers that dont necessarily mean they are the best.

Dahl · May 30, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I already said I'm not getting that nvidia card, I'm getting the x1950 pro from ATI. So yes, I already know that some of the other components need to be changed.

Dex · May 30, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

For the record, Cordian's hardware choices are quite good (although at current prices I'd have opted to spend a few more bucks and gotten a larger hard drive). I've been building systems for a long time. Just a few things I'd like to add here:

- Right now the Intel Core 2 Duo is the CPU to have. AMD made the best gaming CPUs for years until the Core 2 Duo was released (my last 5 CPUs have been AMD). Now Intel has the crown. Check around on review sites. It's quite verifiable. http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html

- If you're not going up to an 8800GTX or 8800GTS then ATI is the way to go with your GPU. nVidia owns the low and high end right now and ATI owns the midrange. If you can afford it I'd highly recommend the x1950xt over the x1950 Pro. The XT is significantly more powerful.

- Don't just look at the wattage on your power supply. The brand of the unit and the amperage over the 12v rail are very important. Good brands include Antec, Hiper, OCZ, PC Power & Cooling, Seasonic, Sparkle, and several others. Also make sure you check the 12v requirements on the video card and make sure the 12v output on the PSU can handle it. Outside of that, I'd go with at least a 500w unit. If you get a good brand a 600w should be able to handle just about anything your average desktop is going to throw at it. If you get a cheap PSU you'll regret it. It's the heart of your system.

easyg · May 30, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

AMD doesn't even lead in price/performance any more thanks to the recent round of price cuts by Intel.... well, I gues they still lead in the ultra cheapo segment, like the $400 budget build....