Curse

sparky1_2007 · Jun 27, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Ok, so i have been looking into buying some new internals for my computer, and give the old stuff to my brother, as he desperately needs a new one, as his keeps crashing, etc etc, but thats another story.

here's the components ive been looking at:

note: i only need motherboard, RAM, video card(s) and CPU

Motherboard: Evga 750I SLI FTW :link

CPU: Intel core2quad Q9300 yorksfield 2.5ghz : Link

RAM: G-skill 4gb (2x2GB) PC6400 ddr2800: Link

Video card: Evga 8800GT (x2 possibly): Link

Now, my questions to you:
I will be purchasing these components 1 by one, as money is tight, and i cant just go and ask my parents to go and buy $800 worth of stuff for me.

I was wondering if i should on my birthday in October purchase the Motherboard, CPU and RAM, or 1 or 2 of the video cards.

I was planning on buying the motherboard, CPU and RAM, because i have a PCI-E video card to swap out temporarily until christmas time where i can get together enough money for the video cards.

Now, last question, if i do plan on waiting on the video cards, what new options will be out there for me in these next 5ish months?

I used to always keep track of this stuff when i built my first computer, because i wanted to know what was the best bang for the buck, stuff, etc.

but now, i have fallen behind the times, so i am hoping you can supply me with the information

The latest ive heard on video cards is the x2xx series from nvidia.
also, not to be a drag, but ATI is not an option for me right now, id like to mix things up and get away from the ATI brand, and go with nvidia for their better driver support

also, for my powersupply listed below, would i need to upgrade it to a more powerful one to run SLI with 2x8800GT's or 2x of whatever card i end up getting? If so, what brands would you recommend? and what wattage?

ive always stuck to Antec, hiper power & PC power & cooling PSU's

here's a link to my current PSU: link

for your reference, My current setup:
AMD 3800x2 CPU dualcore 2.0ghz
DFI ultra-D NF4 ultra motherboard
2gb OCZ ram
powercolor x800xl
74gb raptor 10k rpm
200gb maxtor 7,400rpm
550watt PSU
antec P180 case

moriz · Jun 27, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

it's kinda hard to stay away from AMD/ATI right now, since their new HD4800 series just made 80% of nvidia's lineup completely obsolete. they no longer have the driver issues either. at present time, it's foolhardy to NOT buy AMD/ATI, unless you have the $650 for the GTX280 (and more money for a new powersupply).

one thing to take note of, is that the new intel nehalem is due to debut around christmas time. if you really want to save up, the best time to invest is at christmas time. that's when you can either jump onto the new technology, or get cheaper older technology.

sparky1_2007 · Jun 27, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

just read a review for the 4800 series on HardOCP's website, and i like it

now, my question would be this: if i were to spend the say $400 on either a single 4870 or 2x 8800GT's, what differences could i expect if i am playing on a 22" widescreen running at 1680x1050?

also, to compare apples to apples, what if i went with 2x 4850's? what motherboard would you recommend, and what differences would i be looking at between dual 8800GT's?

zamial · Jun 27, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Ok not to crush your plans but I would seriously wait untill the new intel cpu is out later this year. Why? It will drive the cost of other products down. Especially on cpu's. The amd/ati spider platform is nice but it duals as a space heater.
If you are going to buy somthing right off the bat get, a big power supply the newer components require more power and running multiple video cards even more. The power supply can be used, even not at max output but taxing a smaller psu can cause all sorts of problems. vid cards and cpu price are always dropping but there will be a crash on the good stuff that is availible now.

I seem to be in a similar boat as you, altho I do not live with my parents. MY plan:
Get a case 1st. 2nd the biggest psu I can get I want a 1200w or bigger for 3-way sli w/ modular cableing. Next start getting my water cooling supplies. all these items can be used in the future build.

Buy this time I am hopeing that I can afford the new intel chip, mother board, ddr3 good ram, and a few of the x280 cards. Along with the correct water blocks.

What I am doing with my old system. That gets rebuit into a "pretty" case for my girlfreind. Her old computer is going to My dad after I custom build him a case. This gives me my dads old system and another system I have (an old hp) that I am going to retro fit and turn into a Windows Home Server and or a myth/media center pc.

Not to mention all the old T23 laptops I am working on for a nonprofit organization.

sparky1_2007 · Jun 27, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

Ok not to crush your plans but I would seriously wait untill the new intel cpu is out later this year. Why? It will drive the cost of other products down. Especially on cpu's. The amd/ati spider platform is nice but it duals as a space heater.
If you are going to buy somthing right off the bat get, a big power supply the newer components require more power and running multiple video cards even more. The power supply can be used, even not at max output but taxing a smaller psu can cause all sorts of problems. vid cards and cpu price are always dropping but there will be a crash on the good stuff that is availible now.

I seem to be in a similar boat as you, altho I do not live with my parents. MY plan:
Get a case 1st. 2nd the biggest psu I can get I want a 1200w or bigger for 3-way sli w/ modular cableing. Next start getting my water cooling supplies. all these items can be used in the future build.

Buy this time I am hopeing that I can afford the new intel chip, mother board, ddr3 good ram, and a few of the x280 cards. Along with the correct water blocks.

What I am doing with my old system. That gets rebuit into a "pretty" case for my girlfreind. Her old computer is going to My dad after I custom build him a case. This gives me my dads old system and another system I have (an old hp) that I am going to retro fit and turn into a Windows Home Server and or a myth/media center pc.

Not to mention all the old T23 laptops I am working on for a nonprofit organization.

yea, exactly, i think what im going to do is buy a single 4870 card in october around my b-day to replace my x800xl until i get the newer system, and then around christmas time i should have saved up enough money from work, and christmas money to make the rest of my purchace

and i believe that if i run a single 4870, my 550 watt should be good to power a single card, right?

zamial · Jun 27, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

More than likely that will power the system.

A real world explanation on psu.

You have 2 motor cycles 1 is a 250cc engine and the other is a 1100cc. Both bikes will go 80 MPH. The 1100 will do it faster and with less wear and tear than the 250 running at full bore.

moriz · Jun 27, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

if you really want to go dual card for $400, go with 2x HD4850. the only setup that's currently faster than that is 2x HD4870.

i'm also pretty sure that crossfire (essentially AMD's version of SLI) can run on intel boards as well, providing you have two PCI-E x16 slots (PCI-E 2.0 x16 is preferable, but not required).

anyways, with the 6 months product cycle that both ATI and nvidia are on, you might see better products in 6 months time.

sparky1_2007 · Jun 27, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

More than likely that will power the system.

A real world explanation on psu.

You have 2 motor cycles 1 is a 250cc engine and the other is a 1100cc. Both bikes will go 80 MPH. The 1100 will do it faster and with less wear and tear than the 250 running at full bore.

good analogy, never would have thought of that, but yea, i completely understand that

i always used the the more power your PSU can supply, the less chance of it being "dirty" power that could harm your components by not getting the proper power.

but how is AMD's processor's/boards doing against intel's processors?

from what ive heard AMD is a few steps behind atm, but time will tell, ive got 5 ish months till i get my stuff

Lurid · Jun 28, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

At the moment AMD is behind performance wise, but is still a viable option (especially in the budget range). Intel's upcoming Nehalem line will probably be better than what AMD has to offer in the high end sector, but will most likely gain a fairly strong foot hold in the midrange to budget spectrum. Simply because people will be able to overclock the AMD line for better value per dollar, whereas Intel's first generation of Nehalem will not only be pricey but according to sources FSB locked (Therefore no overclocking).

sparky1_2007 · Jun 28, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

ahh, ok

i think im going to go with these components instead of the ones i previously picked out

Motherboard: link(X48 chip set over 750i chip set)

CPU: link (same processor)

Memory: link (PC1066 over PC800 on old selection)

Video card: link (ATI 4870)

JMUN23 · Jun 28, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Personally, I'd stay away from AMD in contrast to what some other people may tell you. The Phenom was a letdown to the majority of AMD fans. AMD has already issued a statement saying that they'll release their hyped "black" edition for the same price just because they rushed their latest processors. Basically, they're having more issues than a troubled kid on crack.

Also, depending on what games you'll be playing you may want to search around Tom's Hardware for reviews on video cards. I'm a NVidia fan and there's a reason for it. With this new "battle" ATI has lost again. Even the 3-way Crossfire got smashed in benchmarks in-game and artificial testing from 3DMarks. Also, not sure if you're thinking for the future or if you're looking for a computer to buy and just live off of for a few years, but ATI's new video card takes up two slots. Also, when in games, though NVidia only won 80% of the tests (only?), the biggest factor is that ATI's graphics dropped down into the teens for FPS. Some games it worked perfectly and some games it nearly crashed. ATI's Crossfire doesn't support OpenGL. FACT. Using another analogy: ATI is more unstable than Charles Manson.

moriz · Jun 28, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

AMD's phenoms are bad. you are completely out to lunch regarding the new radeons.

fact: HD4850 is decisively faster than the geforce 9800GTX, and until recently, $100 cheaper.

fact: HD4870 is decisively faster than the geforce GTX260, and is STILL $100 cheaper

fact: the new radeons have achieved 100%+ scaling in crossfire in certain games (COD4, quakewars). you'll be lucky if you can get 50% scaling with nvidia cards and SLI.

fact: HD4870 is faster than the GTX280 in certain games (quakewars, bioshock), and costs less than half.

fact: 2x HD4850 is considerably faster than a single GTX280, uses less power, and still costs $150 less. it is only beaten by 2x HD4870, which is STILL cheaper than a single GTX280.

in other words, AMD's new radeons thumped the geforces big time this round. there's very little (actually, nothing) you can say against it.

sources:
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14990 (HD4870)
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14967 (HD4850)
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341 (HD4870)
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3338 (HD4850)
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3340 (geforce 9800GTX+)

sparky1_2007 · Jun 28, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

thanks for the help guys

i think im gonna stick with the current setup i priced out above with the ati 4870 and x48 board.

probably gonna get one of those PC power and cooling silencers 610watt or something along those lines to power the 4870.

heck, if a 4870x2 comes out by the time im ready to purchace, ill get one of those and save me the time

Wrath Of Dragons · Jun 29, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

I would suggest doing a dual core processor, instead of quad.
Games tend to only use 1 core anyways, so a dual 3ghz proc is going to work better then a quad 2.5ghz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037
This processor is AWESOME (theres a 3.16ghz version for 219.0).
It runs colder then just about anything, uses much less power, and if you ever decide to overclock, you can even do minor OC without any cooler besides the one it comes with. My friend has one of these in his PC....its amazing.

Its also $189.0.

Wait a bit on the video cards, chances are a 4870x2 is coming out sooner rather then later.

Also, the 9800gtx+ isnt too shabby.

Brianna · Jun 29, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath Of Dragons

I would suggest doing a dual core processor, instead of quad.
Games tend to only use 1 core anyways, so a dual 3ghz proc is going to work better then a quad 2.5ghz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037
This processor is AWESOME (theres a 3.16ghz version for 219.0).
It runs colder then just about anything, uses much less power, and if you ever decide to overclock, you can even do minor OC without any cooler besides the one it comes with. My friend has one of these in his PC....its amazing.

Its also $189.0.

Wait a bit on the video cards, chances are a 4870x2 is coming out sooner rather then later.

Also, the 9800gtx+ isnt too shabby.

Agreed on the E8400, If I could buy any processor in the world right now it would be that one.

sparky1_2007 · Jun 29, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath Of Dragons

I would suggest doing a dual core processor, instead of quad.
Games tend to only use 1 core anyways, so a dual 3ghz proc is going to work better then a quad 2.5ghz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037
This processor is AWESOME (theres a 3.16ghz version for 219.0).
It runs colder then just about anything, uses much less power, and if you ever decide to overclock, you can even do minor OC without any cooler besides the one it comes with. My friend has one of these in his PC....its amazing.

Its also $189.0.

Wait a bit on the video cards, chances are a 4870x2 is coming out sooner rather then later.

Also, the 9800gtx+ isnt too shabby.

im planning on OCing the quad core to 3.0ghz

i've currently got a huge all copper zalman 7500 series cooler on my current rig, and it is compatible with LGA775 with a different set of mounting brackets, so hopefully i can use that

if not, im going to buy a swiftech cooler and a 120mm fan for it.
link to HSF: link

and, i think by the time im ready to purchace a video card, that the 4870 x2 should be out, and there should be some reviews on it.

it's performance sounds promising: link

Lurid · Jun 29, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Don't buy that Swiftech cooler. Buy a Xigmatek HDT-S1283, or Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120.

sparky1_2007 · Jun 30, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

Don't buy that Swiftech cooler. Buy a Xigmatek HDT-S1283, or Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120.

any reason why not?

and ive heard good things about the thermal right, i might pick up one of those if i dont get the swiftech.

Lurid · Jun 30, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Doesn't perform as well and is too expensive for what it is.

Tamuril elansar · Jun 30, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

quad cores aren't a good idea, nearly no games scale to it anyway.