Curse

Elder III · Aug 07, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Well, I've been mulling over the possibilities for replacing my laptop, and I finally got to a city here in RO so that I can check some computer shops out and get their prices. I was pleasantly surprised to find one place that was 25% or more less than the avg. competition and here's the system that he gave me a quote on.
*note I somehow lost the papers that I got from the various stores today, but this is the gist of what that system included to the best of my memory.*

AMD Phenom X4 9750
Gigabyte MOBO w/Crossfire capability, DDR2 (4 slots) onboard sound and all the standard stuff
ATX Case
ATI Radeon 4850 512mb
2 GB DDR2 800 (Kingston I think)
Maxtor 500gb Hard 3mb 16mb SATAII 7200rpm
500w Antec Power Supply
20" Benq LCD Monitor 1680x1050 5ms & 2.1 speakers built in
LG DVD rw drive
2 yr warranty

Total Price w/ assembly and tax: $1178.00 (at current exchange rate)

Now I know I can get the parts cheaper in the USA, but I am sadly not there and with the AWFUL cost of international shipping I can't come out that well. Not to mention the fact that such types of items usually get stolen here. Also a 2 yr warranty is better than none if I do it myself (at least it is imo).

My questions, are as follows - other than the 2gb ram, which I can upgrade later, is there anything that you would change on this system? Also I would like to drop the price down to $1000 if I can, what would you suggest downgrading on first?
I will be running XP Media Center 2005 on this system. I need to be able to do some photo editing and occasional video editing for my job, and I like to play games in my spare time. Oblivion, Assassin's Creed, Farcry (FarCry 2 also when it's out), are the most graphics intense games that I play. I like to be able to play on high to very high settings with max resolution in all my games of course. XD I'm confident that this system can easily handle all of those games listed, but I also want something that I don't have to upgrade for a few years either.

Thanks for any and all feedback.

nebuchanezzar · Aug 07, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

You should be fine imo with that setup. Keep in mind that max resolution for you in anything should be 1680*1050 with your monitor. Anything besides native LCD resolutions look like crap. LCD's literally have that many dots is why so lock that res in and max out the eye candy.
I don't know where you could really chunk off almost 200 bucks. Not get the monitor and use an old LCD or CRT if that's an option. Downgrade the cpu to a tri-core instead of a quad-core, not sure how much that will help as I am not current on prices for cpu's atm.
Since your running a flavor of XP then 2 Gb is plenty of ram for you for now.
Enjoy your new PC.

Showtime · Aug 07, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

For the vast majority of people and because of the way OS/sofware/applications are ran, I would recommend you grabbing a cooler running Intel dual core instead. Your video card is the is a good choice. I'd run WD or Samsung over that Maxtor depending on the drive. Some maxtors are seagate drives...
Monitor should be good though there are a lot differences depending on panel used. Too bad you aren't in the USA. I'd tell you to grab a dell deal with ws monitor for like $500 or build one for a little more and then add that card and a little more ram maybe. $700ish for a decent gaming rig.

Lord Sojar · Aug 07, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

PC parts come with excellent warranties. Build it yourself.

RAM is lifetime, motherboards are typically lifetime or 3-5 years at least, videocards are lifetime now, Drives are 3 year, processors are 3-5 years, powersupplies are 3-5 years. All of that is better than just 2.

Your own build will slaughter that thing.

Elder III · Aug 08, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

How about the E7200 from INtel (i think the one that Moriz has on the $1000 rig in the parts guide)??? If that or a similar one was available I'd be happy with it, esp. for a lesser price. I know that most games and software out so far don't perform all that much better on 4 cores than 2.... I just don't want to regret not having a quad in 2 years is all.

Yes, the monitor's max resolution is the max for me. lol

Rahja - I was under the impression that parts warranties are only valid if used by a "licensed technician"? +++ I've messed around inside PCs a little, but never assembled the whole thing.... makes me nervous.

moriz · Aug 08, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

the E7200 is great. it performs well out of the box, and overclocks like a beast. it can be obtained for as little as $110 now, which is a crazy price for the performance it delivers.

don't be afraid of computer assembly. my current rig is my first complete build, and it was surprisingly easy. if you ever played with lego before, you can assemble a computer.

Quaker · Aug 08, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Question - just out of curiosity - I assume NY is New York, but what is RO? Romania? Rhodesia? Rhode Island? What/where?

Showtime · Aug 08, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

PC parts come with excellent warranties. Build it yourself.

RAM is lifetime, motherboards are typically lifetime or 3-5 years at least, videocards are lifetime now, Drives are 3 year, processors are 3-5 years, powersupplies are 3-5 years. All of that is better than just 2.

Your own build will slaughter that thing.

You need to check the warranty on each part before buying and buy it from authorized dealer not some shady 2nd hand place. But usually if something lasts a few weeks, it should be ok for several years. After a few weeks, the main culprit in failure is heat. So plan good cooling into your build and clean your fans when they get dusty. Hard drives can and will fail since they have moving parts and have to deal with heat. Maxtor has a bad rep. Check newegg.com before buying for reviews.

As far as building from scratch or buying a dell... The performance will be similar if you use the same cpu, ram, hard drive, OS, and video card. It separates itself if you leave dell bloatware because it sucks up resources. Also you can oc on many mobos, but not on dells. Here in the states, many computer builders buy dells when the price is right since we can not buy/build that much performance/hardware for less money. Search dell on any deal site and you will quickly see why.

Here is some good general info on prices on hardware.
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=798731

Also try anandtech.com for more in depth information on what will work well with what.

You don't need quad core now and in 2 or 3 years there will be much faster options than current quads. If I were you, I'd buy a decent mobo that supports quad core for later, and then get a decent intel dual core like a 6600 and overclock it a little. Do some research to get the right ram etc to go with it. If you are not sure how to overclock or if it is something you would want to try, then read up at anandtech. Even at stock speeds that 4600 will be faster (in most things) than that AMD quad. Temps will also be lower and that is important for the longevity of your build. Especially since that video card (4850) gets toasty.

Edit: The Q6600 for $170 at newegg or a little bit more with crappy mobo at frys. At that price, you might want to go quad now.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/850953/

Elder III · Aug 09, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Ok - RO stands for Romania - which is the hairy backside of Eastern Europe - keep that in mind when quoting prices and when talking about the availability of things in the USA.

It's a different world over here. lol

I made it back into the city and found that my quote of components was abit OFF. Moral of the story, when you are an old fart like me, don't try to quote lists from memory at 1am in the morning like I did in the OP. :/
I talked to the techies there some more and after some dickering around on prices and parts this is what we came up with.

AMD RS780, s.AM2, video, HDMI, LAN, 6xSATA2, 2xPCI-E(x16), 3xPCI-E(x1), 2xPCI, Raid 0,1, 0+1, 4xDDR2 1066 and all the other typical goodies
AMD Phenom x4 9850 Quad Core Black Edition, socket AM2, 2.5 Ghz, 2MB cache L2, 2MB cache L3, 125w,
DDR2 2G PC6400 Mhz 800 Kingston
ATI Radeon PCI-E HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3 (256bit), Fan, 625/1986 mhz, 2 x Dual Link DVI, Full HD 1080p, Platinum
Western Digital 250 GB Hard Drive
DVD+/-RW LG Super multi 20x
Middletower ATX standard fare, fan, ventilation panels, carrying handle, etc
500w Power Supply
"Delux" multimedia keyboard (Microsoft)
2.1 Speakers (Microsoft)
20" BenQ TFT G200WA, 5ms, 1680x1050, TCO, '03, LCD panel grad A+, D-sub
Full respect of manufacturer warranties (if the mobo has a 3 yr warranty and the store is only 2 yrs, they will still honor it and either fix or replace it onsite)

Total Price - $1,014.08 includes assembly and taxes etc. (+$14 over my budget, and considering where I'm living now that is a VERY good price for it)

Also, I will be getting a call when the parts are all in and I may observe the assembly process if I wish. I can't think of a better deal than that, esp. when the owner of the store waived the money down fee for ordering parts. I think he must think that an American is good for the money, but not his fellow countrymen. lol

I have always used WD when I have bought HDs in the past, so I also was not overly thrilled with the Maxtor. I have an external as well, so space is not an issue, plenty of slots to pop in another HD or two down the road. I will be putting a few sticks of 1066 DDR2 Ram on my Xmas list and then I should be all set for a few years.
The Intel 6600 was cheaper than this, when I pointed that out, he gave me the AMD for less than the Intel's stock price. So for better or worse that is my new system. I'll let you all know how it runs in a few days.

Thanks for all the replies.

moriz · Aug 09, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

if you want to go for an AMD build, try to get one of the new 790GX motherboard. they have a new feature called advanced clock calibration, which significantly increases the overclocking potential of the phenom black editions.

i'd try for a slightly beefier power supply as well, since the phenom has a higher power requirement than my intel chip (a 500W PSU is just adequate for my system).

Malice Black · Aug 09, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

A 650W would be ideal, allows for an extra 4850 if you ever decide to get another

Elder III · Aug 10, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

I read about the 790gx, but I've got a strict budget, so I can't really get that I'm afraid.

Supposedly this Phenom overclocks to 2.8 with no trouble as is, that will be more than enough for me.... I've been used to a 1.7 dual core for the last couple years. lol

I know that a Crossfire configuration will take a beefier power supply, but I was thinking that the 500w will have to suffice for now. I don't think I'll be getting a second 4850 this year anyways. Do you really think that the 500w is too weak for what's "in the box" at this point????

Malice Black · Aug 10, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

As is the 500w is more then capable. The Phenom should clock to 3GHz on air.

Elder III · Aug 14, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Got it up and running and it is a beauty.

The Phenom Quad Core and 4850 were putting out allot of heat, so we ended up throwing in an extra 2 coolers and about 4 fans on it... perhaps overkill, but it should be ready for that Crossfire setup some time in the future.

Needless to say GW runs at 220 or more FPS with all settings max now... too bad my ISP sux arse still.... Quake 4 on Ultra High is a cakewalk - Farcry on Maximum Settings is a gorgeous romp through the Jungles, and Oblivion is able to maintain 60 FPS (default monitor setting) with ALL eye candy turned on. That game is so lovely now that I never want to leave it, and I don't even have any high rez textured packs downloaded for it yet. hehe

So all in all it's working very well - thanks to all for the input!

Lord Sojar · Aug 15, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

You need to check the warranty on each part before buying and buy it from authorized dealer not some shady 2nd hand place. But usually if something lasts a few weeks, it should be ok for several years. After a few weeks, the main culprit in failure is heat. So plan good cooling into your build and clean your fans when they get dusty. Hard drives can and will fail since they have moving parts and have to deal with heat. Maxtor has a bad rep. Check newegg.com before buying for reviews.

As far as building from scratch or buying a dell... The performance will be similar if you use the same cpu, ram, hard drive, OS, and video card. It separates itself if you leave dell bloatware because it sucks up resources. Also you can oc on many mobos, but not on dells. Here in the states, many computer builders buy dells when the price is right since we can not buy/build that much performance/hardware for less money. Search dell on any deal site and you will quickly see why.

At your first part:
I am talking manufacturers warranties only, not secondary bs.

At second part:
No Dell will ever be equal to a well built self build. Why? Dell uses artificial limiters and a locked BIOS, as well as dulled down parts and proprietary bull.

PS: Elder, grats on your build. Hope it destroys SC2, GW2, D3, etc.

PPS: Siggraph 08 was BORING. Next stop, Intel dev conference.