Curse

Brianna · Nov 22, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Yeah, In my opinion you buy the customer support and warranty, some companies have really crappy service, others don't. I swear by EVGA personally.

The 8800GT and 9800GT will be stronger than the 9600GT in any case. I'd say either of those two.

Evil Genius · Nov 23, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Then what is the explanation for cards from some manufacturers needing repaired or replaced more often that cards from others? Surely, if they are all so close to the same, then these sorts of problems should not exist.

Clearly, there is a problem with more cards from some manufacturers than from others. But if the problem does not lie in the quality of the manufacturing, then what is the problem?

Do you have any actual evidence to support the claim cheaper manufacturers' cards break more often? I know on some PC hardware/PC gaming forums I am a member of the users often/always recommend the cheaper brands, such as HIS (for ATI), Galaxy (for Nvidia) etc. (Curiously enough users often say to stay away from MSI). I don't see people coming back and complaining their card broke. I know this is only ancedotal evidence, but the burden of proof lies with you to support the claim cheaper cards break more often.

The best manufacterers in the United States are not necessarily the best in other places, not because of differences in the cards themselves but because the customer support, warranty and other features are not offered and therefore the product does not justify the cost. I would prefer a manufacturer I know has a RMA lab/office in my own country than send the product overseas for a RMA.

Sure, if the 9800GT is availible as an ASUS, BFG, EVGA, XFX, Zotac etc for the same cost as the cheaper one, buy the better brand. But if its a USD$30 and up margin, its not worth it.

One last note: often when browsing the cards on Newegg, the cards from EVGA and BFG are the cheapest or near the cheapest. However, in Australia (and probably other places) the EVGA and BFG cards are at least AU$50 more.

Faer · Nov 23, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Genius

Do you have any actual evidence to support the claim cheaper manufacturers' cards break more often?

Only as much as anyone else has offered in defense of the lesser manufacturers, i.e.:

Quote:

[20:59:07]<@Fenix> i got MSI for 1 reason
[20:59:13] <@Fenix> because they had sold out of the card i wanted
[20:59:18] <@Fenix> and they offered me the MSI
[20:59:21] <@Fenix> and i was like
[20:59:24] <@Fenix> uhhh ummm uhhhh
[20:59:27] <@Fenix> uhhhh ok fine
[20:59:38] <@Fenix> it never worked.
[21:00:21] <@Fenix> i mean hell, the 2nd hand XFX that i bought
[21:00:28] <@Fenix> WORKED LONGER THAN THE MSI

For as long as I've been putting computers together, it's been the same story from everybody (except, apparently, Guru members, lolololol). Products from lesser manufacturers fail more than the ones from the bigger guys. Even my own personal experience has been along these lines. Very rarely have I heard of cards from the bigger guys (such as EVGA and XFX) having such problems. Certainly, if all manufacturers were equal, then all would be talked about equally?

But I guess they aren't really equal. "Burden of proof" is just as irrelevant here as it is in arguing Darwinism. It doesn't matter how we got here, what matters is that we are here, and things are the way they are. Therefore, I "support" my claim with the fact that more people complain about the lesser manufacturers than the bigger ones (disprove that why don't you), and refuse to go digging up a statistical analysis on the matter (if such a thing even exists). I figure if all ArenaNet has to say to convince you guys that GW2 is coming is "we're working on it", this variety of evidence should do just fine.

Now I gotta go guys, gonna order some cards from MSI, a mobo from JetWay, and PSU from A-Top. (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞

moriz · Nov 23, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

i'm going to laugh so hard if those components actually work pretty well, thereby disproving your own argument against them.

Elder III · Nov 23, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

*grins* As long as the video card in question has at least a couple year warranty in your particular country I say go for it. As said a couple times above, if it fails it will most likely be very soon, and if not it will probably last quite awhile. (unless you overclock like a banshee or your house floods or something like that lol)

Quaker · Nov 23, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]So more cards from some manufacturers (such as MSI) get RMA'd than cards from other manufacturers (such as XFX), but that doesn't matter because of how small a chance it is for your own card to go bad regardless of who made it.

It does depend a lot upon the quantity of cards sold. I don't know which of these fabs is bigger than the other, but, for example:
If ABC sells 10,000 cards and 500 are bad, you have 500 people complaining about them. If XYZ sells 1,000 cards and 100 of them are bad, you only have 100 people complaining.
You are basically suggesting that XYZ makes better cards than ABC because they have fewer complaints/duds, but in fact, your chances of getting a bad card from ABC are only 500/10,000 (5%) whereas XYZ is 100/1,000 (10%)

Now, I realize that there are many other factors involved, but you must see that basing the judgment of quality on only the absolute number of failures is not accurate.

Personally, however, I do believe there are quality differences between manufacturers. I don't know how deeply nVidia gets involved in it, but there are differences in the overall build quality, and the quality of parts between manufacturers - particularly when it comes to the size and quality of cooling components.

On the other hand, go talk to some people about pickup trucks. You'll find one guy who swears than Chevys are junk and will tell you about all the people who had lemons. The next guy will tell you that Fords are junk and tell you about all his friends who..blah, blah, etc., etc.

Basically, until you can get actual statistics on the quantity of an item that MSI makes vs the quantity that XFX makes (of the same product), versus the failure rates of both, you shouldn't make such bold statements about MSI. It's also worth noting that sometimes, the failures that happen to some companies products are due to quality issues with the parts (capacitors, resistors, fans, etc.) they got from their suppliers.

Oh, and as another chuckle - I was reading the 2007 Consumer reports Annual Auto Issue the other day. It's the issue where they list which cars have good and bad repair records. Not surprisingly, Toyotas were some of the best, and KIA were some of the worst. But, several models of Mercedes-Benz were also among the worst. Ya just never know, but if Faer ever gets a bad XFX card, we'll probably never hear about it from him.

Lord Sojar · Nov 23, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

So.... I wanted to correct a little misconception...

While some of the 9 series GPUs are indeed the same chip as their 8 series counterparts, the 9800GT isn't one of those.

The 9800GT features improved memory latencies, improved pMOS logic, improved X-scaling technology, a refined core design, improved clock speeds and voltage parameters, and a few other niche technologies that make it an all around more powerful card and a better choice. The 9800GT is a great card.

Regarding manufacturers... there are those manufacturers that order low bin parts from us, and that insist on cutting corners. I am not at liberty to mention names here, but these companies cannot be reprimanded in any fashion unless their actions fall above a 2% failure rate in a single category. This applies to most electronics, not just nVidia GPUs.

Also, when looking at different vendors for GPUs, it is important to note the companies track record on customer service, and their perks. From this standpoint, it is evident... eVGA is the best company on the market when it comes to perks. Their "Step Up" program is a great system, and needless to say, should be taken advantage of if possible. Customer support is great with many of the companies, including but far from limited to eVGA, XFX, BFG, Zotac, and ASUS.

Abedeus · Nov 23, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Oh, forgot one thing.

CPU's usually require a Motherboard upgrade when you upgrade them, right? For example, jumping from Athlon 3000+ to Intel Core 2 required a small change.

Do I need to change anything in order to install that 9800GT? Memory or anything else?

Lord Sojar · Nov 23, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Motherboards and processors are bound by the socket and BUS design.

GPUs are bound by BUS design. In this case, provided you have a PCI Express 16x motherboard, you can get any PCI Express 16x enabled card. It will work, no issues. You need to make sure your powersupply has enough amperage on its +12v rail and enough wattage to handle the new card though.

Abedeus · Nov 23, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Thanks. And yeah, my motherboard does support PCI Express 16x, as my GeForce 8500GT uses it, too. Also, I changed my power supply to a better one, along with new rig.

Elder III · Nov 23, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Most of the newer video cards say on the box or in their manual that a 400watt PSU is required.... generally speaking a 400watt PSU is sufficient for a basic build, but it won't give you all that much room for expansion down the road. Of course it all depends on what you put inside your machine...

moriz · Nov 24, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

nah, both AMD and nVIDIA will overstate the PSU requirement, simply because the vast majority of their buyers will try to run them on really cheap (and bad) PSUs that cannot achieve anywhere near their rated wattage. by overstating the power requirement, they save themselves and their buyers a lot of trouble.

just as a comparison, my current rig, with overclocking and everything, draws a grand total of 270W. that's with a HD 4850 btw. a good quality PSU, even if it is a measly 400W, can outperform a bad PSU rated at 650W.

Antares Ascending · Nov 24, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Whatever you decide on don't neglect to look at the warrantee.

I went with EVGA 2 years ago with 2 8800GTXs ( took one out cause it seemed silly to be putting time on it when it wasn't needed) Anyway.. I had a problem with a liquid cooler that took out the card. EVGA replaced it knowing what had happened! I'd gladly pay a premium for that warratee again...think pny also has something like that

Quaker · Nov 24, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

CPU's usually require a Motherboard upgrade when you upgrade them, right? For example, jumping from Athlon 3000+ to Intel Core 2 required a small change.

It depends upon how "large" an upgrade you want to make. You can usually only upgrade CPUs in the same "family" (Athlon, Core 2, etc.) without changing motherboards. For example, you could upgrade your Athlon 3000+ to an Athlon 5000+ without changing motherboards (usually - it might require a BIOS upgrade as well and you would have to check the socket type).
Going from one brand (AMD) to a different brand (Intel) always requires a change in motherboard these days, as the sockets are always different.
Even within the same brand - for example, going from an Intel Core 2 to a Core i7 - requires a new motherboard.

Quote:

Do I need to change anything in order to install that 9800GT? Memory or anything else?

Possibly a larger power supply, or an additional case fan. That's about all.