Curse

Rezolve · Dec 19, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I have a question before choosing parts for my PC. Would I be able to build my system around a Core i7?
I have a 1500$ budget, but I’m Canadian so that would be about 1250$ in U.S. What I want to do is to play games at an as high resolution as possible without losing performance and suits my budget. Currently the only monitor I have is a 17 inch one, so I will have to buy a new one. Also, would sticking to Windows XP hinder me in any way?

Evil Genius · Dec 19, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

You will not be able to fit Core i7 into a $1250 budget. Get a Core 2 Duo rig instead. I like the look of moriz's, although I cannot comment on the case (no experience with that brand or reviews).

Quote:

Elder III · Dec 19, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

XP will hinder you in that you won't be able to play the newest games in DirectX 10 (but you can play them in DX9, which is rarely enough of a visual loss to notice).... also Vista 64 is what you want if you plan to have more than 4GB of RAM (which is not really necessary now either) - other than that there isn't any reason to switch to Vista just yet imo

Raku Clayman · Dec 19, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

At this point you are going to have a hard time building a computer with an i7 mobo and cpu, within your budget, unless you are buying the lower end, like a 920. That still will cost you around $600 for the mobo and cpu.

What we always do is build our systems around what we call the "sweet spot," which means the items that were the high end 3-6 months ago. Those items have the best bang for the buck. This could include a dual core 2 Intel Q9XXX series chipset and a P48 seies mobo or 780i. 4gigs of DDR2 or 3 memory, 2 Radeon HD48XX graphics cards and a quality PSU with at least 680W. Keep in mind you are buying a new case, new sound system and anything I left out. You have many choices and the prices add up quickly.

You will love playing GW on a 22" widescreen monitor at 1680 X1050. You may even love it more on a 24" monitor.

I still use Windows XP and I'm not missing anything. In fact, I won't upgrade until Win 7 comes out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Genius

...Get a Core 2 Duo rig instead. I like the look of moriz's, although I cannot comment on the case (no experience with that brand or reviews).

I can't read what the case is in the list because the page has expired. I recently purchased a Thermaltake and I am very happy with the design and the ease with which everything fits in the case.

Quaker · Dec 19, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

What some people have said here isn't exactly correct. You can build a computer around an i7 cpu for $1250. The problem would be that you wouldn't be able to afford a decent graphics card to go with it. At this time, with most current games, GPU power is better than CPU power.
Basically you'd want to build something around a Phenom or Core2 cpu with something like an ATI HD4850 video card (or nVidia equivalent).
Windows XP will not hinder you. The only thing Vista has going for it (game-wise) is DX10. There are not that many games yet that even support DX10 and running even the ones that do under DX9 looks almost as good.

Rezolve · Dec 20, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Thx for all the help, then i guess i7 is out of the picture then, would you guys say I should go for core 2 duo or quad? Probably duo, don't think quad makes that much of a difference for games?And also, would it be better for me to get a 22inch or 24 inch monitor?

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Dec 20, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

GWG i7 Desktop

It's slightly over budget though with the parts I chose.

viper11025 · Dec 20, 2008, 06:45 AM // 06:45

WAIT until after the haolidays and aorund may, trust me.
You should see new stuff ocme out and the cheep getting cheaper.
I expect.

Lord Sojar · Dec 21, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

First and foremost, on that budget, your best bet is to stick with Core2, and not go with an i7 PC. i7 PCs are only for those with 1,500+ to spend, and really, 2,000+. They are slightly better in performance as it comes to gaming, and far better when it comes to database and applications with lots of matrix overhead. It would be silly to degrade your primary build in order to fit an i7 into it.

XP will hinder you if you want to play DX10 games or wish to use over 3GBs of RAM. Vista 64bit is currently your best bet to meet either of those ^ requirements.

As for monitors... with most modern graphics cards, you want a 24" monitor with a 1920x1200 resolution. This will insure playing at a very high resolution, worthy of spending money on such a card. The most modern GPUs can run games at 1920x1200 and above with ease, barring a few extremely advanced games (Crysis: Warhead, etc) An example of buying a monitor with a resolution lower than 1920x1200 and buying a GTX260 (or equivalent card) would be something like this; buying a Lamborghini only to drive 55MPH on an in city highway. Tsk tsk... So in short, if you are going to get a newer GPU, you best get a 24" monitor.

Here is what I would recommend for a build:

CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037
Amazing CPU, cheap as can be, fast, overclocks like a dream

Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813188026
This board will allow for SLi later on, and is cheap for what it offers. Plenty of room for expansion, and tons of options to overclock and tweak when the time comes.

RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231209
GSkill is the best company around right now, hands down. They implement their fabs flawlessly, and they have very transparent customer service and terms. This RAM is also low voltage, low latency, which is a HUGE plus.

GPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130398
Value + performance, and best in class. Win win?

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006
Phenomenal choice, especially at that insane price. The 750w model will allow you to expand your PC for a while to come (adding in another GPU, changing to a quad core CPU, adding another HDD, another disk drive, fans, lights, etc etc)

Case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129021
(at that price, would be silly not to get it)

OS:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116488
(not Ultimate, but saves you some money, which is the goal here)

HDD:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148288
Amazing performance (best in 7200rpm class), great price, and quality beyond anything you know. Seagate makes unbelievable drives.

Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151173
Cheap, quality, win.

Grand total without monitor?

$1,056.91 (and that includes shipping, because shipping is FREE on everything on the list.

That leaves you some extra money to throw at the 24" monitor, because I assume your budget didn't include that? If so, it will be much harder to build a really modern PC for 1,250 including a monitor and OS.

Rezolve · Dec 23, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Thx a lot for the build Rahja, after I converted it using the Canadian newegg, and threw in the only 24" monitor they had, the price went up to around 1700$. no free shipping or us canadians.

So unless I can find a around 300$ monitor, I think I'm gonna wait until after holidays, or at least after Christmas. hopefully the prices would hav dropped a little

Chthon · Dec 25, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Fantastic Core 2 Duo machine.

How long would one have to wait for the i7's to approach these prices? If one isn't in a hurry, is the i7 a big enough jump to justify the wait?

Malician · Dec 26, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

How long would one have to wait for the i7's to approach these prices? If one isn't in a hurry, is the i7 a big enough jump to justify the wait?

If I remember correctly, going core i7 means you have to buy DDR3 RAM. Since DDR2 might as well be free (and the i7 mobos are pretty spendy).. I'd say, for a gamer, skip it. The advent of higher resolution monitors and extremely fast CPU architectures make graphics cards EVERYONE'S bottleneck.

That said, your power supply won't have to push more than 250 watts or so (assuming quadcore overclocked to 3-4 ghz, multiple hard drives, very fast single GPU). The $100 PSUs are unnecessary. As long as it's high quality with enough amperage on the 12V rail, you're fine.

Lord Sojar · Dec 28, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

If I remember correctly, going core i7 means you have to buy DDR3 RAM. Since DDR2 might as well be free (and the i7 mobos are pretty spendy).. I'd say, for a gamer, skip it. The advent of higher resolution monitors and extremely fast CPU architectures make graphics cards EVERYONE'S bottleneck.

That said, your power supply won't have to push more than 250 watts or so (assuming quadcore overclocked to 3-4 ghz, multiple hard drives, very fast single GPU). The $100 PSUs are unnecessary. As long as it's high quality with enough amperage on the 12V rail, you're fine.

Perhaps with an 8500GT graphics card, a low powered processor (certainly not in the speed range you gave), and low voltage RAM.

But... modern Intel processors are 95w+, and the GTX260 consumes over 100w easily. That already is 200w gone. Spare 50w for everything else? 450-500w would be the beginning of the range for any modern PC, with 620 tri rail being the recommended minimum. A high quality 750w PSU for ~100-150 is a good deal.

Malician · Dec 29, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Perhaps with an 8500GT graphics card, a low powered processor (certainly not in the speed range you gave), and low voltage RAM.

But... modern Intel processors are 95w+, and the GTX260 consumes over 100w easily. That already is 200w gone. Spare 50w for everything else? 450-500w would be the beginning of the range for any modern PC, with 620 tri rail being the recommended minimum. A high quality 750w PSU for ~100-150 is a good deal.

I did some fact checking, and requirements must've gone up for the latest generation of GPUs (or my memory is flawed). I'm pretty sure the last test I saw showed a full highend system ~200, but eh. Maybe it was with a dual core? Apologies for the bad info.

That said: The stuff you listed would be eating under ~140 watts, worst-case. In most cases, there's an unjustified fervor for more power than is needed, and here's why:

Power supplies have limits on how many amps of power they can supply at different voltages. Back in the day, most of the stuff which eats power used to run off the 3V or 5V rails of a power supply, but now virtually everything (including CPU/GPU) runs off the 12V. However, it took quite awhile for PSU manufacturers to catch up, resulting in numberless (both no-name and quality brand) power supplies rated 400-600 watts which could barely supply 200.

Cheers.

Lord Sojar · Dec 29, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Right. That is why we always recommend a power supply that can push high amperes on the 12v rails (26+). Stability is key, and solid ampere ratings typically ensure that.

And yes, requirements for modern GPU has skyrocketed. The newest GTX models are not lightweights when it comes to power consumption, just as the HD4870 and X2 models are not.

In addition, quad core power computing CPUs (like the Intel Extreme Editions and AMD Phenom Black editions) are not power misers either.

And no, the stuff I listed is bare minimum 350 watts +. Higher end PCs are min 500-600 watts. But, wattage is far from everything. We look at many aspects when we recommend our posters here at the Tech forum a power supply. It is arguably the most important part of a PC.

Malician · Dec 30, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

And no, the stuff I listed is bare minimum 350 watts +.

Sorry about that - meant your 8500 sample build with the 140 watt figure, not your first one =))

Thanks for the education - again, I feel quite dumb for not rechecking quad core / modern GPU power use before my first post.

I agree completely with your point about the new, cheaper monitors - there's just no comparison between a 19/22" and a 24" screen or HDTV. I'd love a 30" just for the resolution when working and such, but the price on those is sadly staying pretty high..