Curse

Ec]-[oMaN · Jul 21, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacratus Ignis

Any idea when specifically? I need it by sept 20 for aion haha

I doubt the next gen cards will be ready for September purchasing. If anything build the system of your choice now and enjoy it. You can always stick in a 50-100$ video card now to play a few games or GW with and when the new cards come sell your current and get ready to lay down $300+

Or do the same, but come this fall when the new gen cards have buy the previous highest perf last gen card at half price, I'm not sure how the cost/performance ratio will be with the new gen cards and what new game titles will actually utilize them upon release.

RotteN · Jul 21, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacratus Ignis

Any idea when specifically? I need it by sept 20 for aion haha

TSMC has had some serious issues with their 40nm fab. Take that into account and the fact that the RV800's were originally announced for late 2009, and I doubt you'll see them in stores in september.

It would make "sense" to launch around the actual DX11 launch (october 22nd if I'm not mistaken) but for now, all we can do is wait for an actual announcement.

As far as Nvidia goes: last i heard was they were pushing the GT300 back till 2010.

Brett Kuntz · Jul 21, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

TSMC has had some serious issues with their 40nm fab. Take that into account and the fact that the RV800's were originally announced for late 2009, and I doubt you'll see them in stores in september.

It would make "sense" to launch around the actual DX11 launch (october 22nd if I'm not mistaken) but for now, all we can do is wait for an actual announcement.

As far as Nvidia goes: last i heard was they were pushing the GT300 back till 2010.

Most people are saying the ATI's will be released in August with the general public being able to buy them in quantity during September. nVidia's wont be out until March 2010 or so. This is all "rumor" or "speculation".

In either case, I am personally not buying until I can get my hands on some 5870's. Some people are waiting until nVidia's offerings come out, and are benchmarked, before deciding to buy either the 5800's or GT300's. If you are one of those people, good/thorough benchmarks will not be out for a long time, so either hang tight with what you got, or buy a cheap card to hold yourself off for now.

Elder III · Jul 21, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

If Aion is your only gaming concern then you won't need a 5870 or a GT300 to max it out, not even close - so go ahead and get whatever fits your budget best.

Improvavel · Jul 21, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

With that kind a budget, I would try to get an i7 920 - bit of an overkill for gaming, but you shouldn't need to change CPU for years - and maybe pair it with 6GB ram.

i5 and i3 wont be as fast as the i7 and I can see the i5 going on the price point of the i7 920. i7 920, for those who can afford, is really a bargain that won't be available for that long now - word is it will be phased out and replaced by the i5 at that price point.

If you are money conscious, and playing is the most stressing activity you will do, then an AMD Phenom II 955 BE seems a very comfortable choice that will save you some money. The Phenom II X3 720 is probably enough for the time being, though, but not as future proof, being a tri-core. Of course, with some select motherboards and BIOS versions, you might be able to unlock the 4rd core and have basically a X4 920 for the price of a X3 720 (not all motherboards do this and not all X3 chips will do it - if you interested look in places like anandtech forums).

About graphic cards, 4870 1GB and 4890 are really killers in price performance - the nVidia GTX 260 core 216 (competes against the 4870 1GB) and the GTX 275 (competes against the 4890) might be somewhat faster in some games, but generally they are a bit more expensive.

Additionally, I bet you will be able to sell those 4870 and 4890 really fast if you then decide to buy a next generation card, although, Aion, shouldn't require it.

Lord Sojar · Jul 21, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

TSMC has had some serious issues with their 40nm fab. Take that into account and the fact that the RV800's were originally announced for late 2009, and I doubt you'll see them in stores in september.

It would make "sense" to launch around the actual DX11 launch (october 22nd if I'm not mistaken) but for now, all we can do is wait for an actual announcement.

As far as Nvidia goes: last i heard was they were pushing the GT300 back till 2010.

TSMC is indeed having issues with their 40nm process. We are suffering from the same dilemma as ATi in this regard. Unfortunately, this might delay launch of both cards significantly. 2010 possibly, but we would like to avoid that. A1 silicon has proved to be low yield (though I am not at liberty to give a number), and this issue is being looked into and remedied. I cannot speak for ATi (and I really can't speak for us either...), but the situation is being dealt with accordingly.

Your best bet is indeed to just get a card that can get your through until then (a 4850 or GTS250 should suffice for most games at reasonable settings for the time being). The new generation of cards is worth the wait though, that I can promise you.

Zomgyogi · Jul 22, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

I had never built a computer before and it was VERY easy. Hardest part was doing cable management and installing the software

.
I built my i7 for about $1500 including keyboard and mouse and it saved me about $300-400 vs having it prebuilt.
You could build a C2Q or Phenom II for 1k easy. I can make a parts list if you are interested.

Sacratus Ignis · Jul 24, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Ok so yeah. I'm going to be buying the parts soon.

I was going to base the comp on the mainstrean gamer system in the stickies parts guide.

If I want to marginally upgade some of those suggested parts to ones mentioned by you guys, do I have to worry at all about compatibility? I may just pay newegg to build the comp for me if that's the case lol. I don't want to mess things up. Or I'd just order everything on his parts list with no changes to ensure it works.

Thx again for all the help

Improvavel · Jul 24, 2009, 03:13 PM // 15:13

The mainstream game is a very solid choice.

I would upgrade the CPU from the 945 to a 955 BE -> 200 MHz more on stock and a lot easier to overclock. It seems sold out on new egg though.

I would also go from 2GB Ram to 4GB ram.

I would also look for a 1TB HDD. Maybe a Seagate.

You would need no changes on the motherboard.

The main change would be to bump the Ram from 2 to 4GB.

Sacratus Ignis · Jul 27, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

I think this is my last question

Friend just linked me to this prebuilt machine on newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883227146

Seems like a great deal. Can anyone verify for me? In comparison to the mainstream gamer

dilan155 · Jul 27, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

as far as i can see that seems like a very nice system for that price, my dual core system with the GTX 260 cost about the same a couple months ago, be mindful of shipping and tax prices as well.

oh and well i had to add a monitor and an os that kicked things up a bit.

power supply seems a bit low for a core i7 and a 280 though.

Zomgyogi · Jul 27, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

What you are paying for ~$1150 (Needs DVD drive)
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Pu...umber=10579205
PLUS this combo
i7 920 + P6T SE

Case was added for pricing. This is the case here

What you can get with ~$1300 (Needs DVD drive ~$25)
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Pu...umber=10579065
PLUS this combo
i7 920 + Asus P6T + OCZ Gold 6GB

As for the OS you could use Windows 7 RC

Sacratus Ignis · Aug 13, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Lols one last bump.

I'm going to buy tonight, but a new challenger has entered the field.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16883229092R

super cheap I think. Looks perfect except vid card isn't top of the line. I figure it will run aion well, and in a year it two I can cheaply upgrade. Thoughts on that system?

Also looked at this one but can't figure out why it is more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883229102

thanks

Ec]-[oMaN · Aug 13, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacratus Ignis

Lols one last bump.

I'm going to buy tonight, but a new challenger has entered the field.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16883229092R

super cheap I think. Looks perfect except vid card isn't top of the line. I figure it will run aion well, and in a year it two I can cheaply upgrade. Thoughts on that system?

Also looked at this one but can't figure out why it is more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883229102

thanks

The problem I have with these pre builts is contents, none of the two systems even list where the parts are from name brand?

Comparing the two systems.

System one
- has 500gb less HD, its pretty much a 50$ HD
- no OS, abit vista isn't worth money and you can use Win7 for another 5 months free of charge
- better video card, although still using very old tech value 120$
- 800w PSU, quality?

System two
- 1TB hd, value about 120$
- comes with vista so what
- a video card that isn't considered mainstream gamer class, value about 50$
- 680w PSU, quality of this?

I'd put money on both systems using the same type of memory from some OEM, and probably the same low cost type of mobo, around the 65$ dollar range. With the second system you are paying about $180+ or more just for the vista because that graphics card is worth $80+ less than the gts250.

Edit: FYI also just noticed the Second System has a $100+ mail in rebate, I'd definitely not even bother with that second system of over $220 more than the first one.

Ec]-[oMaN · Aug 13, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

You may also want to reconsider the system and or CPU overall. You want a gaming rig, and have 1500$ to spend give or take, this should be able to buy a top of the line single GPU system.

Now what you seem to have your mind set on is the CPU, sure it's top of the line now, but you are paying dearly for it in cost and not really matching up a powerful GPU/video card to go with it. Also what current monitor LCD do you have? or have your mind set on, with your budget you could easily go with a nice 24" LCD. What about sound system? Again you can always wait for the next refresh of GPU slated for the fall of this year ATI, or next year for nvidia to drop 250$ on a nice GPU to pair along with that i7... I don't know if this is your plan?

Sacratus Ignis · Aug 13, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Yeah I'd be happy to upgrade the card later. I feel dumb overpaying for a system right now since those cheaper prebuilts should run aion smoothly and desktops can easily be upgraded in the future. I do have more to spend if I need to, but it seems like those two $800 systems I linked to are good bargains for strong specs. I get a top processor, plenty of ram, hd is plenty big (I have a tb external), and video card is good but not great (but really nice ones are coming out soonish and I can upgrade when it makes sense to).

I am trying to weigh whether I need to pay more to get the quality of system I need etc. I will be using a 20" LCD screen which I already own.

Tharg · Aug 13, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Better build your own.

Which components? It depends if you want to go for dual channel or triple channel. Triple is faster but much more expensive. I don't think it's coste effective just yet. Better spend all your money on a graphics card - but don't get the fastest - there is a law of diminishing returns.

RAM is cheap but realistically you don't need more than 2 GB. And if you run a 32-bit OS, most of the RAM over 2.5 GB is not used anyway (your graphics card uses up room in the addressable memory space as well). But in any case, take a 64-bit OS.

Look on Newegg to build a rig, for example:

Dual channel setup:
Thermaltake case 75
CD/DVD burner 30 (any generic will do)
CPU Intel Q9400 190
RAM 2 x 1GB 25 (pick a brand you like)
EVGA 750i Mobo 100 (EVGA has the best customer support)
power supply 165 (I prefer Thermaltake)
EVGA GTX285 320
hard disk 80 (just pick a 1TB Western Digital)
Windows 100 (Vista 64 OEM)
----------
total 1,100 after mail-in rebates

If you want the latest and the greatest - triple channel:

Thermaltake case 75
CD/DVD burner 30
CPU i920 280
RAM 3 x 2 GB 100
EVGA E757 Mobo 220
power supply 165
EVGA GTX285 320
hard disk 80
Windows 100
----------
total 1,370 after mail-in rebates

Just as example - you can fine tune how you like.

Good luck!

some links:

case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133074

CPU Q9400:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115131

Mobo EVGA 750i:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813188033

Power supply Thermaltake 850 W:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153106

CPU i7 920:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115202

EVGA E757 Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813188049

Sacratus Ignis · Aug 13, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Lol I keep changing my mind about prebuilt vs not. I have no issues in terms of time constraints.

I'm just debating what is worth paying for. What parts go obsolete / become cheapest most quickly? Etc

I am also very worried about compatibilty issues if I build my own. How do I make sure the motherboard, psu, case, etc are all going to work together.

I'm currently thinking I either get that $800 one I posted today or build one that's a little better. I think I want 6gb ram, that i7 920 processor (though no idea if that's worth the $$), small but fast HD, video card that can easily handle everything out now (don't care if i'd have to upgrade in a year or two), DVD burner. And then I know NOTHING about cases, psu, motherboard. No idea what to look for there or what's worth paying for. Do
they even improve performance?

If anyone could show me a newegg build for $800-1000 that nearly matches the specs I
mentioned (if I'm sorely misinformed about what I should be aiming for, let me know), I'd be very grateful. I need to know that if I
build a system, it's better than comparably priced prebuilts and that all the parts will work together.

Thx

Burst Cancel · Aug 13, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

i7 is generally a poor value for gaming; its primary strength is in encoding, rendering, HPC, etc. For games, you are much better off getting a cheaper platform (AM2+/AM3 or heck, even LGA775) and investing the savings in a better video card and peripherals (monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc.). People often spend a lot of time worrying about the hardware that goes into the case, but for entertainment applications, the reality is that how you interface with the machine is just as important than the machine itself.

Trying to futureproof yourself is a lost cause. Within a year, pretty much everything you buy now will be cheaper/obsolete. The most reusable components are the ones that have little bearing on raw performance: case, PSU, optical drive, cooling, and sound card.

Brett Kuntz · Aug 13, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

For $1,500 you could almost build a high-end Watercooled system, so you have lots of room to work with.

First up, lets start off with a 1366 socket CPU and motherboard. This ensures forward compatibility with the future:

i7 920 (D0 Stepping)
EVGA X58

The i9 CPU's (6 cores, 12 threads) come out in 2~ years or something, and they will be socket 1366 and compatible with this motherboard.

As for GPU, I would not buy one until ATI's 5870's come out in mid September, because all existing GPU's from ATI & nVidia will drop in price at that point, saving you a good chunk of change. So if you want a 4890 or GTX 285, they'll both probably nose-dive $50 at that time, or at least have some good mail-in rebates/combo-deals.

All that is left is some RAM. Any DDR3 RAM is good. Timings/Bandwidth has very little effect on gaming (less than 1%), and a mediocre effect on benchmarking (5%). Some DDR3 1333 CL7 or CL8 should be good, buy what ever RAM is cheapest at that time, but make sure it is a triple-core kit. Corsair has the highest quality RAM, but there are plenty of other companies out there with the same quality, just not as many years on their track record (like OCZ, G-Skill, or Mushkin). Your timings are how many clock-cycles have to pass before the RAM can send the requested memory. The only timing that has any effect on gaming is your "CAS" (or "CL") timing, which is the first timing in your numbers (8-8-8-24 would be CAS 8 or CL8). The easy math behind it is:

(2000 / AA) * BB = How many nanoseconds it will take for your RAM to respond

AA = RAM Speed in DDR Format
BB = CAS or CL Amount

DDR 1333 has a 1333MHz effective rate, and at 8-8-8-24 you have a CAS or CL of 8 so:

(2000 / 1333) * 8 = 12ns Delay

12ns RAM is cheapest, somewhat old.
9ns RAM is middle of the line, somewhat newer
7ns is top-end memory

Your Timing delay has more of an effect on your FPS than total memory bandwidth. So low speed RAM but with decent timings will benefit you more than high speed RAM with mediocre timings. Some people are now buying 1866 RAM with CL9 thinking it'll be better than slower 1333 or 1600 stuff, but it really isn't. Game's don't need bandwidth, they need faster random access.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

i7 is generally a poor value for gaming; its primary strength is in encoding, rendering, HPC, etc. For games, you are much better off getting a cheaper platform (AM2+/AM3 or heck, even LGA775) and investing the savings in a better video card and peripherals (monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc.). People often spend a lot of time worrying about the hardware that goes into the case, but for entertainment applications, the reality is that how you interface with the machine is just as important than the machine itself.

Trying to futureproof yourself is a lost cause. Within a year, pretty much everything you buy now will be cheaper/obsolete. The most reusable components are the ones that have little bearing on raw performance: case, PSU, optical drive, cooling, and sound card.

What BC is saying is true, futureproofing yourself is somewhat of a lost cause. It really only works if you buy a good motherboard with a newer chipset, that way you have a plausible upgrade path for RAM, CPU, and GPU in the future. Spending $1500 on a gaming rig in this day and age is quite a lot, as I said, you're a few hundred away from a high-end Watercooled rig. You might want to buy a top-end AM3 motherboard, drop a Triple-Core in there (AMD 720), and save most of your cash for a 5870X2 and huge monitor (25" or higher, 2048x1152 or higher).