Curse

subarucar · Nov 12, 2009, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Hi,

Im planning on building a new machine as my current setup is getting a bit outdated. I have looked around PC shops and have decided that most of the stuff is pretty rubbish for gaming (Why do I need a good processor and ram if my graphics are GMA3100?). For this reason I have decided that building a PC may be the best option.
Not having a huge amount of money, I'm looking to keep the build fairly cheap, but don't want to compromise too much and end up with a PC that's only slightly faster than the old one.

I have no idea where to start with this, the only thing I am sure about is that I want an Nvidia graphics card, even then, I have no idea what model.

This is my current setup:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8200 @ 2.66Ghz
2GB RAM (Not sure on speed, but it's pretty basic stuff)
Nvidia 8600GT @ 512mb
Not sure on Mobo, DxDiag doesnt tell me.

In terms of processors I have heard Intel tend to have better compatability with Nvidia cards, is this true? Or do AMD work just as well? What are your recommendations brand wise?
I would like to stick with dual core, and was looking around the 3Ghz range, I have looked at the E8400 and E6850, are these any good? Which is the better of the two? What else could you recommend?

For graphics cards I am fixed on Nvidia, and you would need a very convincing argument to switch me to ATI (I have had poor experiences with their cards). I have looked into the GTS250 and the 9800GT/GTX/GTX+ and they seem nice cards, I am unsure on how much the prices on these cards will drop when the 300 series are released, or whether any of the 300 series would suit my needs at the right price. I have also considered running 2 9600's in SLI, are compatability issues really a big problem? Whats your opinion on SLI vs single card?

As for motherboards I have absolutely no idea, so I will definately need some assistance here.

I would need a PSU that would cover the needs for these parts, room to expand would be nice, but not neccesary if the pricebecomes to high.

And for screens, keyboards, mouses, boxes etc. Im after nothing hardcore, so I'm sure I'll be able to work these out for myself.

Thanks in advance.

Keyez · Nov 12, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

For gaming, you're going to want to stick to dual core (core 2 duo) anyway. Intel E8400 to E8600 are definitely a good bet. Quad core is more for the video editing side of things, and other processor intensive tasks. It won't really be needed until people decide to create software packages and games that actually use all 4 processors. Maybe a couple of years down the track. I haven't had much experience with AMD, so I can't offer opinion.

If it came down to ATi and Nvidia, I would recommend the latter. The first ATi card I got was dodgy, and nvidia always creates exceptional cards. Nvidia 8800GT is an excellent card. It might be slightly outdated now, but it is amazing, does everything you need without problems. The Nividia 200 series are better performance wise, but I feel that the price-quality ratio is just out. Still your best bet atm for a good gaming machine.

I can not stress enough getting non-generic ram. Most of the time you will find it under performs compared to its' branded counterpart. Corsair make some of the best performance RAM out there. Can offer a solid customer approval on that one.

For mobo, you're going to want to take into consideration your internet access to the machine, number of gpu's you're planning to have, compatibility with the CPU and RAM, ports, audio, and most importantly, plan for the future with it. If you want any more than 8GB of ram, you're going to need more than 2 RAM slots on our mobo.

subarucar · Nov 12, 2009, 10:10 AM // 10:10

The only problem I have with the 8800GT is that it's only a step up from my current card, I'm looking for something with a bit more oompf. I rarely buy/upgrade my PC's, so I would prefer to have something that has a little staying power, thats why I looked at the mid 200's and high 9000's.

As for RAM, I have seen alot of the Kingston brand, are they any good? How much would you recommend? I was thinking 3gb to max out 32bit OS, but is it worth it to get more and a 64bit OS? How much does RAM speed matter? Ive seen some at 2000mhz speed, but it seems quite expensive, so thats counted out. Is there a noticeable difference between 800 and 1066?

Elder III · Nov 12, 2009, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I see that you are in New Zealand - I don't know what the prices are there, but I'm sure that they are higher than in the USA - my experience from living overseas is that AMD & ATI are cheaper than Intel/NVIDIA (by a larger margin than her in the US too). To properly advise you we need to know a couple of things:

What is your budget?

What are the prices on parts that are even available to you? I think NZ has a few online parts sites that would be cheaper than your local store, but how reliable they are I have no clue.

What do you want to do with your computer? What games do you want to play, do they need to be "maxed out", and what default resolution is your monitor?

With that said here are a couple things to consider - You have a fairly decent system as is - some overclocking on the CPU and a new video card and you will have a huge increase in gaming ability. The 8600 is way under powered for today's video games - just upgrading that would be a huge gain for you. If you are running Vista then you should get more RAM too, if XP then 2GB is ok.

For the budget conscious gamer I would build something along the following. *This is based on pricing and availability in the USA*

ASUS or Gigabyte socket AM3 motherboard with PCI-Express x 16 2.0 and capability for up to 16GB of DDR3 RAM.

2 x 2GB DDR3 RAM (any name brand; speed of DDR3 is not really relevant)

AMD Callisto Black Edition 3.1ghz AMD dual core Processor (unlocked multiplier means this is a piece of cake o overclock with a good cooler)

ATI 4890 1GB video card (any name brand)

600watt or more Power Supply with 50+ Amps on the +12volt rails (Corsair, OCZ, Thermaltake, PC Power ANd Cooling, Antec.... brands of preference).

Optical Drive DVD RW+ is largely dependent on the best sale at the time....

A case with ample room and good airflow is a must, but the looks are up to each person to decide - in any case (no pun intended) you can get one to suit for $50-75 easily.

OS - Windows 7, unless you have an install disc lying around that you can reuse....

Estimated Total = $850 USD

That is a generous pricing, and does not take into account sales or mail in rebates. Of course you will probably have to pay at least that much or more in NZ. Now you could cut corners, you could get an older motherboard that only supports DDR2 RAM, depending on your gaming preferences, you could get a ATI 4850 or an NVIDIA 9800GTX and save some money. A quality 500 watt PSU would run that system, but leave less room for the future. With some corners cut you could save $100-150, but you wouldn't have a machine that is as ready for the future either.

hope that helps..... if you get a chance to post as to where you would be buying in NZ and the prices there that would be most advantageous.

Lord Sojar · Nov 12, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Ram speed isn't really that big of a deal, especially with Corei5 and Corei7 CPUs. They rely more on lower timings then overall speed. DDR2-800 is pretty dated at this point, so I wouldn't bother with it if you are going for a full out new build. DDR3-1066 is good for most builds, but DDR3-1333/1600 can't hurt if you can find low timing versions at a good price point. DDR3-2000 is not worth the money. I favor GSkill for all my RAM purchases, but Corsair, Mushkin, OCZ, and Crucial are all great as well. There are a few other good companies, but they are hit or miss depending on the model.

Processors have no bearing on compatibility, but chipsets do a bit. In the past, Intel's chipsets have favored nVidia cards to some degree, while AMD's chipsets have favored ATI's (AMD's own) cards. When Intel released x58 and P55, this has faded for the most part. Some people claim some x58 boards still work better with nVidia cards, but it is by such a small margin on so few titles, it really makes no difference.

As for 32bit vs 64bit, this is a no brainer anymore. 64bit is the way to go, and if you have that option, go for it. It is far more efficient, and you will see a huge boon to operating system response and speed, as well as overall smoothness when multitasking (though some of that is understandably bound to your HDD's limits)

If you want an nVidia GPU at this point, I would highly suggest waiting. G300 will be here before you know it, and the performance is absolutely jaw dropping; worth every penny. They will be priced competitively with ATI's solutions, and will deliver more features and better performance overall. The waiting game sucks, but we are halfway through November now, so... at this point, it would be silly not to wait just a bit longer.

Overall, you have a nice PC as it is. Did you build it yourself, or is it an OEM? If you built it yourself, you could upgrade it with very little money compared to building a new system. Dropping in a Core2 Quad would be a huge boon, and your motherboard will probably support it via a simple BIOS update. They are extremely affordable now as well.
Adding in 4GBs of DDR2-1066 would help a lot too. Finally, upgrading your GPU is probably the biggest boost you would find as far as core hardware is concerned. If you wanted though, putting an SSD as your primary drive for your OS and a few games and applications would give you an enormous boost in overall performance.

Quaker · Nov 12, 2009, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I basically agree with Rahja.

I would add that I don't see much point in getting a new i5/i7 and then gimping it with only a GTS250. If all you are looking at is a GTS250 (or thereabouts), there's not much point in upgrading more than that. The main thing limiting your current system is the 8600GT.

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 12, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

If the motherboard has a PCI-Express 16x slot I'd throw in a gtx260 216sp and nothing less.

Also depending on the mobo you could probably get the processor up to 3.0ghz if it allows overclocking.

Otherwise he's better off dumping at least 800-1000$ and getting a whole new up to date rig, quad core, 4 gig ram, and at least a 5850 card.

Download this and post a screen shot of the mainboard tab.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

subarucar · Nov 13, 2009, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Ok, I've had this PC for a while, and it wasn't top quality when I bought it, so i just assumed the Mobo and CPU were a bit outdated.
I also wouldn't have minded getting a seperate rig for when those LAN parties come along, but if my budget ends up gimping the performance, I'd rather have have one rig.

My current PC was a shop bought machine with the 8600GT added as the card it came with was rubbish.

As far as my RAM goes, I have 2 slots in my Mobo, a 1GB stick in each. Should I get a Mobo with more slots? Or simply remove the 1GB and replaces with 2GB's?

Here are the CPUID specs, I took screens of Mobo, RAM and CPU.
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6196/pccpesc.png

I have no idea how to overclock, I'm not sure how much I could overclock it, what that would do to my cooling, etc. ie Im an overclocking newb. So if anyone could describe that processes involved, or send me a link they know works, then that would be great.

Here are some places that sell PC hardware in NZ, the only one I would definately buy from is PB Tech, but the others should give an idea of what is available and prices, I would consider the others, but I would do more research into how reliable they are first.

http://www.computerdirect.co.nz/
http://www.xpcomputers.co.nz/
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/
I also have no problem with buying 2nd hand if it's still in good condition. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Computers/index.htm

As far as my budget goes, it's more about value for money that what the final cost is. If I could get a 295 for $50 more than a 250, then I would buy it. If a 260 was $500 more than a 250, even if it was still in budget, I wouldn't buy it. Hopefully by the parts I'm looking at you should get idea of what my price range is.

Im also looking at a new monitor. My current one is 4:3 and runs a maximum of 1280x1024 (Or is that the 8600's max?). Id probably get one around 21.5"/22" although if I spot a 24" cheap, I'll grab it. What is there to look out for in terms of monitors? I'm currently looking at pirce, delay and size as factors. What else is there to consider?

Elder III · Nov 13, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Could you take off the side of your case and post what the sticker on the Power Supply says? I'm guessing you may need to upgrade that, but if I were you I would just upgrade the video card and the RAM, save motherboard and Processor upgrading for a future date. Looking at the PB Tech site I have to say that you seriously need to go with ATI vs NVIDIA, you can get a HD 4890 for 289 NZ while the GTX 275s are 350 - 450 NZ, the performance difference between the two is nil and depends on the games you play. For that price difference it's a no brainer.

I would get the following:

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGASAP4895

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=MEMCOR12958

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUCOR0650

that would handle whatever you throw at it for quite awhile.

for a gaming monitor make sure you get 5ms response time or less (2ms is really nice, but you do pay for it), basically go for a trusted brand in the size and resolution that you want.

subarucar · Nov 13, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

As for the pricing of NZ being more expensive than that of US, at the moment, with the NZ dollar being strong, purchasing things from the US and shipping them is usually at least 20-25% (Possibly more) less than buying new here. Is it worth the risk to buy from over there? (Risk = Damage from shipping, may need to return it if it malfunctions etc).

I've always sided with Nvidia as I have had horrible experience with ATI cards, specifically the 3650 and my friends 4670. Are these just bad cards? Or do the whole ATI range share similiar problems?
With the new 300 series, would their prices be expected to match ATI? Or would the 200 series prices drop enough to make them more comparable?

As I may decide to set up a full second rig rather than upgrading the current one I'd be keen to hear some advice a mobo's and CPU's aswell. Either to go with the new parts, or to replace the parts removed from the old machine (Old specs are in OP).

Back to the subject of overclocking. My PC is nicely hidden away within a custom build cabinet, I'm guessing this could cause some heat issues, am I correct? Or is the heat increase not major? If it is major, what should I look into for cooling? And I would rather not move it out of this cabinet because I put many hours into building it.

I ran a quick speedfan test on it. (All temps are in celcius)
These specs are semi-idle (Web, Media etc) (0-10% CPU usage)
GPU = 62
CPU = 40
Core 0 = 54
Core 1 = 53
Core = 62

My PSU is probably a 350w. The 8600 needs 300w to run, and I see no justifiable reason why the rig would have a 400w+
The 650w PSU looks good, the 4890 needs 500w, and with the 650w being only $20 more than the 550w, it's worth the buy just to have the ability to add more power hungry parts in the future without needing a new PSU. The only thing preventing me from from buying a 650w PSU would be if I decide to to make this build a second rig, rather than an upgrade, and find a nice case with a PSU included.
Does getting a well known brand of PSU matter, how much difference would a picking up a cheaper one make? What are the differences between the products these brands sell, there are some other similiar ones.

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUZAL12725
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUTHM0355
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUTHM0307
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUCLM0650
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Computers/C...-253506918.htm

Edit: Someone mentioned grabbing an SSD earlier. As my Hardrive space often ends up low, even with 2TB of external HDD's. I'm not very sure about these either, I couldn't decipher much info from the internet, if anyone could go into detail on these or send me a link that would be great.

As for the 4890, I found many on the site, is the one you linked the best? Why? Or is it simply the first 4890 you saw?
Here are the others:
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGAXFX433
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGASAP4893
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGAGBV1002
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGASAP4895

What about the 5750 and 5770? How do they compare?
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGAGBV1010
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGAGBV1009
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGASAP5770
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGASAP5750

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 13, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

4890>5770>5750

What type of problems have ATI given you in the past?

Looking at that pbtech site Nvidia cards seem to be grossly overpriced compared to the ATI cards of relative performance. Not that this isn't the case in general but it's even greater where you are or on that site.

You talked about spending cash if it would warrant the cost in relation to performance I guess. Solid state drives still aren't cheap enough to warrant the cost, your money is better spent elsewhere.

Also what exactly do you want to do these days with your computer or new computer?

The computer you have even with 2gig ram isn't half bad and should run most things rather well.

Personally I'd figure out what Power supply unit you have, if it needs upgrading, upgrade it and purchase whatever video card you want. Buy your monitor and then try your current rig out. If you still aren't happy with the end result although you should be as the graphic card you currently have is the major limiting factor you can always build a bran new computer and drop in the new PSU and graphics card.

Regarding the upcoming Nvidia flagship GPU don't bother waiting, the price of the card once they hit stores in 2-3 months will probably be worth more than what you could sell your whole current computer for.

Elder III · Nov 13, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

In no specific order I'll try to answer some of the questions.

Power Supplies: Don't buy Hyena - they are garbage. (yes I am sooo very tactful...)
Zalman and Thermaltake are both excellent The Zalman is 600watts vs 650 so I chose the Corsair - the first Thermaltake LitePower has less amperage and isn't as "heavy duty as the Corsair, the other Thermaltake would be my second choice after the Corsair, which wins out due to 52 amps vs 48 amps on the +12v rail. The CoolerMaster is not as good a brand for PSUs in my opinion, I wouldn't feel comfortable running a 4890 (or NVIDIA equivalent) on it.

The Saphire 4890 I selected for cheapest price, the other Saphire has a different heatsink and will run cooler when overclocked, but is more $$$ and it's not necessary, the XFX is a great card, but a little more $$$, the Gigabyte would be a fine choice, and at the same price it's simply a matter of brand preference.

5750 = revamped 4850 & 5770 = revamped 4870 - both are good, but the 4890 will beat them gaming performance wise, easily.

The benefit of an SSD is that it has transfer rates and reads data much faster than a traditional HDD. Most ppl get one for the OS, since it will make everything Windows related run faster, often ppl will get a second, larger SSD to install games on. The only great benefit to an SSD in gaming is faster load times, the actual gameplay won't be all that different. Personally I think SSDs are too expensive to be worth it at this time, but if you have the $$$ for it, they are nice - esp. for an OS drive.

Can you post those temperatures when your system is under load? They seem abit high for idle, which makes me wonder what kind of airflow you are getting in that case of yours?

subarucar · Nov 13, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

Can you post those temperatures when your system is under load? They seem abit high for idle, which makes me wonder what kind of airflow you are getting in that case of yours?

Th case has great airflow, all cables are wound up with ties, and are out of the way. It's a reasonably large case. There are vents on the front, back, and both sides. The problem seems to be, as I mentioned earlier, that its mounted in a cabinet. This leaves abot a 2cm air gap and each side, and 5 at the back. There is pleanty of space on the front and at the top. It's running the cooling system it came with. Actualy, tbh, I'm not sure if it came with a cooling system, I had a look around the case, and I cannot see any signs of a fan, I cannot hear one either. Unfortunately, the case has no naming or branding on it, so you can't take a look at what moditications could be done. I have some people borrowing me digital camera, when I get it back I could snap a few photo's if they would be of use.

The problems I have recieved with ATI cards are the fact they seem to overrate their performance, as in a 256mb card from Nvidia could easily perform better than the 512mb 3650 from ATI. I know the power isnt the only thing to look for in a graphics card, but it seems to show something.

As for those 4890's the price difference isnt much, which is the coolest, and which is the bast in terms of performance? And how much better is the performance on that than one of the cheaper ones?

The current PC is struggling with the new release games, for instance. Im running the L4D2 demo with everything on low to avoid freezes, Company Of Heroes also requires everything on low to run at a decent framerate (The benchmark thing says it runs medium at 40FPS, however in-game it's more like 3 fps).
If it's of use I could run a few games and see what settings I can go on, and run some benchmark tests if the games have them.

What's the best way to get temperatures when under load? Run a game for a while then quit out of it to grab the temp? Or is there a better way?

EDIT: As for OS's, what do you recommend? Im on XP 32bit currently. This would give me a 3gb RAM cap, would it be worth getting the 64bit version? I have heard it has many driver and compatability issues. Would 7 be something to consider? The price has turned me off, but are the performance and features worth it? The upgrade pack they have for 3 PC's, looked like a great deal, as I could upgrade my laptop off Vista but a copy on my desktop and give a copy to a good friend. That was, untill I realised you could only upgrade from Vista, and not XP.

I was taking a look at monitors, and most of the 21.5" and 22" here seem to only come in the 2ms varieties, while there are some in 5ms, it's only a few dollars more for the 2ms. These usually say 2ms (GTG), as GTG is grey to grey, does that mean these are not infact true 2ms monitors?
Here are the ones I looked it:
http://pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=MONLGL2253
http://pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=MONLGL2261
http://pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=MONPHS2290

Elder III · Nov 14, 2009, 03:28 AM // 03:28

GTG = "Good To Game" 2ms response time is indeed better for gaming and if the price difference isn't too much it's worth it (over 5ms).

64bit is the only way to go right now - it's the future, and so is Windows 7. If you need to buy a new OS get Win 7 64 bit and nothing else. I've been running that for close to a week now and I love it, I have in fact been migrating everything over to it as my new main OS (I triple boot with XP, Vista, and Win 7 btw).

Whether a video card has 256mb or 512mb means nothing, there are so many different generations and families of video cards between the various manufacturers that you were likely comparing apples to oranges.

The Saphire Vaporex (sp?) would be the coolest of the 4890s, but they are all good and equal in performance (within ~5fps on avg in games).

The current video card you have is not able to run newer games well, or even at all in some cases, so having to set it to low settings ingame is not surprising.

Run the most graphics intensive game you have and then after 15 min of gameplay switch over and check the temps. You might be able to add a couple cooling fans to your case if need be. If heat is a problem in there (esp with the reduced airflow) I might reccomend the cooler Saphire Vaporex 4890 - your GPU is the most likely to overheat, after that would be the CPU....

subarucar · Nov 14, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Ive been doing some afternoon gaming, and I did some temp checks before and after, here are the results.
All temps will be in the format: gpu, cpu, single core, both cores.

Before: 59,35,48,59
After 50 mins of Company Of Heroes lowest specs: 68,48,58,68
5 Mins after closing CoH: 66,40,51,66
2 hour 45min of Team Fortress 2 max specs (AI on 2x): 82,54,69,81

Quaker · Nov 14, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

GTG = "Good To Game" 2ms response time is indeed better for gaming and if the price difference isn't too much it's worth it (over 5ms).

Always be aware that there are no standards for measuring response time. The 5ms rated one could be faster than the 2ms one in reality.

For example, the older way of measuring response time was to go from black-to-white-to-black. Then that became black-to-white or white-to-black (whichever gave the better spec.) Nowadays it's gray-to-gray, which gives nice low numbers, but is meaningless.

Best method is to actually look at the monitors and go with the one that seems to be best. Basically, anything less than 10ms is good.

subarucar · Nov 15, 2009, 06:26 AM // 06:26

A friend spotted a GTX260 for the same price as those 4890's. http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGAXFX454

I looked at the specs, and all the numbers except the Bus were higher. And to a tech newb like me more numbers=better. However he pointed out that the Bus makes a big difference, and the 260 would be the better card vs those 4890's. Is he correct in these statements? Or is his Nvidia fanboyism creeping in?

Edit: Nevermind, was looking through some benchmarks, and on nearly all occaisions the 4890 beats a 275, not to mention the 260.

Neky · Nov 15, 2009, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Just stick with your current setup for a while, it will be worth it. nVidia has yet to counter the 5xxx ATi series, both with new models and lower prices of current ones. Also, Intel i5 is currently a bit pricey in my local stores, but is it top quality? No question about it. Mboards for it are a little pricey too, but in a month or two the prices will come down. They always do

Your rig is more than fine, and can keep up with 90% of "high class" games they serve to us, on a 22" screen with at least mid or mid-high quality.

Someone also suggested that you just get a new GPU, and that's just fine. CPU sure can handle it. 2 more GB of ram, some nice Thermaltake or OCz PSU(500W+) with it, and it will run sooooooo nice and quiet.

I'm not that good with prices, Europe, euros, high customs blah blah blah...

subarucar · Nov 15, 2009, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neky

but in a month or two the prices will come down. They always do

You could say that in a month or two aswell, the prices are always dropping.

As I said earlier, I will be waiting a while before I do any new rigs or upgrading so unless the 300 series take longer than expected to release, I will be able to see what comes out. And unless Nvidia do something revolutionary with their pricing, I'll probably still go with ATI, the 4890 beats the 275, a card that costs 30% more.

The current rig does not handle 90% of higher class games, and I'm on a 19" squarescreen.

And as I have said before, almost all new games (and even some 07/08 games) I am needing to turn them to neer lowest specs to get any decent performance. L4D2, lowest specs. CoH, lowest specs. GTA4, med-low. In fact, pretty much the only games I play that I can run on max apart from AI are Source games an GW.

Elder III · Nov 15, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

It's a proven fact that the 8600 GT (or even GTS) cannot handle graphics intense games of the last few years and really any decent game of the last 1-2 yrs; unless you turn the settings way down and even then some games will be a slideshow (Crysis, FarCry 2, STALKER, etc...)