Curse

Madd Morgan · May 26, 2010, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Hello,

This is my first build but I've put a lot of thought into it...I have an opportunity to buy a computer through work. The benefits to buying through work are: tax free, interest free, and company discount.

I have been reading this forums reviews/post and doing research in other forums, mainly, Toms Hardware and whatever links I get directed too.

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Hope to order by the end of the week 5/28/2010 or next week if need be 6/4/2010

BUDGET : $2,000.00 can go over a tad.

SYSTEM USAGE: This will be a multi-use system, surfing the internet, AutoCAD LT 2010 (other home design apps), gaming (Guild Wars), watching movies, minor photo & video editing, music down loading, OS Windows 7 professional, work station. As you can see it will be used for everything. So I need a workhorse that can do it all.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: keyboard, mouse, speakers

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: www.TigerDirect.com

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: Bishop CA

OVERCLOCKING: I will in time SLI OR CROSSFIRE: depends on what build path I take.

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1200

PARTS PREFERENCES: i7 920 or Phenom II 1090T

AMD Build
CPU: AMD Phenom II 1090T http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...9&sku=A79-1090
Mobo: Asus Crosshair IV Formula AMD 890FX http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=A455-2898
Memory: Corsair XMS 6144MB PC12800 DDR3 1600MHz (3x2GB)http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...6&sku=C13-6136 - I heard duel was better for AMD boards and not tri channel...will this work?
PSU: Corsair HX750W http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...6&sku=C13-2510 - is this enough power?
GPU: XFX HD Radeon 5870 XXX http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=P450-5876
HDD:Western Digital WD1001FALS Caviar Black Hard Drive 1TB http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...sku=TSD-1000WD
SDD: Intel X25-M SATA Solid State Drive 80GB http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...2&sku=I69-7011
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 Full Tower http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=C283-1187
Monitor: Samsung P2450H 24" Widescreen Touch of Color LCD Monitor http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=S203-2430
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-205 Blu Ray Burner http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=P725-3600
TOTAL : $2,262.90

i7 920 Build
CPU: Intel i7 920 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...150&CatId=4074
Mobo: ASUS P6T7 WS SuperComputer Motherboard http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...031&CatId=4069
Memory: Corsair Core i7 Dominator 6GB http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...7&sku=C13-2048
PSU: Corsair HX750W http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...6&sku=C13-2510
GPU: Asus GTX 470 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=A455-0470
HDD:Western Digital WD1001FALS Caviar Black Hard Drive 1TB http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...sku=TSD-1000WD
SDD: Intel X25-M SATA Solid State Drive 80GB http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...2&sku=I69-7011
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 Full Tower http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=C283-1187
Monitor: Samsung P2450H 24" Widescreen Touch of Color LCD Monitor http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=S203-2430
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-205 Blu Ray Burner http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=P725-3600
TOTAL: $2,369.90

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: When I am about to spend this amount of money, I ask myself two questions:
#1) Longevity - I want a system to expand on in the future, if I want to.
#2) Quality - I don’t mind spending a little extra cash if its on something of good quality.

Other concerns for me are the Monitor & Optical Drive. They appear to be expensive right off the bat. I want a nice monitor but can I save a little with a different choice? Same with the Blue-Ray...is it over kill? I want great memory and is not sure if what I choose is good (lots of choices), PSU is that enough power?...
Other things to consider...What can I do to make this a better multi-use system? Are the components compatible? What can I save/down grade on? Is the system expandable in the future? Am I missing anything...any input is greatly appreciated!

Sorry I have a million questions going through my head right now lol!
Madd

Elder III · May 26, 2010, 02:21 AM // 02:21

your budget is waaaaaaaay overkill for what you want to do - you can build a computer to do all that for $800, buy a nice LCD Monitor for $300 or less and you have a sub $1200 computer.... now if the company is paying for it all that's another story

but if you are then you should save your cash and get what you need with the option to upgrade in the future if you want.

Madd Morgan · May 26, 2010, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Overkill is my middle name

I want a system that I don't have to look back on, for a long long time...as for use, I am working off my Dell Inspiron 8600 over 6 years old lol. So this new system should last twice as long! and and I got the money to spend..For now so let’s build a beauty!!

What do you think with the components I have chosen, compatibility etc.

Elder III · May 26, 2010, 01:22 PM // 13:22

well it's your money

I would suggest newegg.com for your purchases; while tigerdirect is good, has excellent service etc... they are a little more expensive and don't do as many great combo deals as newegg often does. Also newegg is in CA and you would get your goodies in 1-2 days.

I'll throw together what I would buy with 2k sometime later today. :d

Madd Morgan · May 26, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I would prefer newegg because they are cheaper, not far from where I live and offer a wider range of system components….Unfortunately my companies account is through TigerDirect, sooo I am hamstringed there.

What I can get at newegg I can’t get at Tiger which dictates some of my choices; like the WD Black Caviar 1TB, I’d rather have a Samsung spinpoint F3 1TB

Stuff like that is what I am up against...what can I save on??

Burst Cancel · May 26, 2010, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madd Morgan

Overkill is my middle name

I want a system that I don't have to look back on, for a long long time

Contrary to popular belief, spending money beyond a certain point doesn't significantly improve a system's long-term viability. Diminishing returns in PC hardware kick in very sharply past the mid-range.

AutoCAD looks like the only potentially demanding application in your description; everything else would be fine off of a 5-year-old Core 2 system with no issues. You should take a look at what limits AutoCAD performance - RAM, HDD, or CPU, and invest in that component.

SLI/Xfire isn't cost-effective, and comes with its own headaches. You're much better off selling your old part on tech forums and putting the proceeds towards a new single-GPU solution every one or two hardware generations.

You can go cheaper on the RAM, even if you stick to Tigerdirect. This Patriot kit is spec'd identically to the Tri-channel Corsairs, for instance, but is $10 cheaper. And even then, performance RAM has poor price/performance ratios; the bandwidth and latency improvements translate into very little real-world performance improvement. AMD system are dual-channel, so you'll want 2x2 or 4x2.

AMD systems are definitely attractive options for people buying now, but the 1090T is unlikely to be worth the 33% price premium over the 1055T, even considering the unlocked multi. $250 for a motherboard is pretty crazy also, given how little impact it has on overall performance. If you're absolutely set on an 890FX board, this Gigabyte board comes with SATA3, USB3, and Xfire support and is $70 cheaper. General rule of thumb: "gamer" and "overclocking" boards are overpriced (I hesitate to use "rip-off"); cheaper boards have great OC capability for people not running LN2/dice.

On the Intel side, i7/X58 is pretty hard to justify for home users, even those with above-average requirements. I know everybody wants an X58 system, but the actual real-world performance difference between i7 9xx and i7 8xx is negligble for most (all?) workloads. And don't even get me started on a $430 motherboard; keep in mind that the NF200 increases PCIe latency and is therefore worse than useless for people who don't need the extra lanes.

Here's the takeaway regarding Bloomfield vs. Lynnfield:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anandtech

Why would anyone want a LGA-1366 system then? I believe there are three major advantages to the LGA-1366 platform for single-socket desktops:

1) Support for Gulftown. You can only get 6-cores from the LGA-1366 platform in 1H 2010, Intel currently doesn't have any 6-core LGA-1156 parts planned.

2) More overclockable CPUs. The best yielding Nehalems (and highest clocked Nehalems) will be LGA-1366 processors. I wouldn't expect any 1GHz+ overclocks from LGA-1156 CPUs.

3) More bandwidth to PCIe slots. I don't see this as a huge advantage today, but there may come a time when having as much bandwidth to your GPUs as possible is important. I'm thinking general purpose GPU computing, DX11, OpenCL sort of stuff. But we're not there yet.

Ultimately I'm going to stick with what I first said on the whole LGA-1156 vs. LGA-1366 topic last November:

"The breakdown seems pretty simple: if you’re the type of person who bought the Q6600/Q9300, then Lynnfield may be the Nehalem for you. If you spent a bit more on your CPU or are more of an enthusiast overclocker, the current Core i7 seems like the path Intel wants you to take."

Full article

And do you really need a Blu-ray burner?

Snograt · May 27, 2010, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

And do you really need a Blu-ray burner?

He's right, you know.

It's still early days for Blu-ray burners, so there's a heck of a premium. Have you seen the consumables? You're looking at 10 dollars just for two blanks at the moment!

The wise money is on a Blu-ray reader/DVD burner combo.

I totally agree with you about overkill though - there are times when only the best will do! I bought a £3,000 computer two years ago, absolutely top grade of everything. Never worked well - overheating was a serious problem. Died last night

cebalrai · May 27, 2010, 07:42 AM // 07:42

All this is way overkill for playing Guild Wars, internet, movies, etc. I'd move away from trying to spend a certain amount of money and move towards value. An AMD/ATI setup is the way to go for your needs.

Quaker · May 27, 2010, 02:38 PM // 14:38

A minor point - You listed your desired monitor as 1920x1200, but the one you linked is 1920x1080.

You list an ATI card with the AMD based system and an nVidia card with the Intel system. I know that many people seem to think you need to go either AMD/ATI or Intel/nVidia, but it's not true. The Intel board you linked is both CrossfireX and SLI capable and, therefore, will accept either card. Also, instead of doing either CFX or SLI, why not just get an HD5970 such as:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...637&CatId=3669
At any rate, just get whatever video card suits your desires.

Quote:

I heard duel was better for AMD boards and not tri channel...will this work?

It's not a matter of which is better - it's a matter of which configuration is available. The AMD only uses dual-channel, the i7-920 uses tri-channel. At any rate, the performance difference is minimal at best.

Regarding longevity - given the current pace of change, seeking a system that you can "expand on in the future" is very much dependent upon how far into the future you're talking. But look at it this way, if you have a 5 year old system now, what parts on it could you use in a new build? The answer is, the case, keyboard, mouse and monitor. Basically everything else is different - new cpus with new sockets, new RAM types - new hard drives with new connectors - new motherboards with new power connectors - etc.
Basically, anything you put together today you can pretty much expect to have to completely gut later.

As far as which system (AMD or Intel) to go with is concerned, it may hinge somewhat on the CAD software and whether or not it can take advantage of the extra cores in the Phenom. My gut feeling leans toward the i7-920 of those 2 choices, but then again, many tests of the i5-750 seem to suggest that you don't need any more than that.

Madd Morgan · Aug 14, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

After posting here, Tom's Hardware, and taking into consideration everyone’s recommendations I've cut the cost down. I still need some more help and thank you for your time.

Here is what I have loaded in TigerDirect.com cart (remember I have to use them through work).

CPU – i3 530 ($119.99)
MOBO – Gigabyte P55A-UD4P (great reviews by Tom’s) ($184.99)
Ram – Corsair XMS 4GBm DDR3, 1600mhz, CL7 ($130.99)
SDD – OCZ Agility 2 60GB ($159.99)
HDD – Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3 ($69.99)
PSU – Corsair HX850W ($169.99)
Case – Cooler Master HAF X ATX ($199.99)
GPU – Galaxy GTX 460 1GB ($229.99, possibly 2 cards?)
Optic Drive – Lite-On IHOS 104 blue ray, DVD, CD rom ($54.99)
Monitor – Samsung XL2370 23” widescreen LED backlit, 1920x1080, 2ms ($299.99 after rebate)

Total $1,625.90 (-$55.00 after rebates)

Concerns:
CPU – will this chip handle my needs in this build? I have been looking at the i5 750 also…
MOBO – the specs on Tiger say that is doesn’t support i3…but I’ve heard that all P55 boards support the i3 chip…am I wrong? If so, what recommendations can be made for a MOBO supporting i3 + SLi?
Ram – I have read reviews from Tom’s suggesting 1600mhz and CL7 for a P55. This is the cheapest set of ram I found on Tiger with the specific specs suggested…any thoughts or considerations?
SDD – boot drive
HDD – storage drive, read an article today that Samsungs life expectancy is 1 to 1.5 years. Hitachi was at 5yrs. That was with a 500gb HDD though. Any suggestions to another HDD manufacture.
PSU – is this enough wattage to cover my setup? Can I downgrade to 750w or another manufacture and possibly save some cash?
Case – I just like it!
GPU – I read an awesome review on Tom’s saying that the GTX 460 1gb in SLi mode out performs the GTX 480. So, should I get the 460’s now or wait to purchase another one…or I could just get one 480…decisions decision.
Optic Drive – got go reviews for its price, anything better or comparable.
Monitor – how are the LED compared to LCD for monitors? I was looking at a Samsung LCD w/ TV turner but am not sure how it will perform as an “all in one” monitor. Specs wise I am looking for 1920x1080, 2ms, 25”-23”, leaning towards to LED because it’s the new thang!

All suggestions would be appreciated. I am still trying to lower the over all cost. I’ll be out of town till Sunday evening I’ll check back then.

Ariena Najea · Aug 14, 2010, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I run AutoDesk 2011 software, mostly AutoCAD and Inventor for modeling (educational, but the same program). I also play Guild Wars extensively, and occasionally use 4 clients. The former runs extremely smoothly, and the latter runs 60FPS in all 4 clients when opened, all in the highest graphics settings except for AA (only in my main client, haven't tried otherwise). My computer was assembled summer last year, and only cost $786 (+$260 for 23" Samsung 1920x1200 monitor). While I didn't put in a blue-ray player or SSD, I think you are spending far more than you need to.

Here is my old build and pricing (at the time):
AMD Phenom II X3 720 (2.8GHz) - $120
Gigabyte AM3 AMD 770/710SB - $80
Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 RAM 1600 - $100
Ati Radeon 4890 XXX - $220
OCZ 750W PSU - $100
Western Digital 1TB Caviar Green - $85
Samsung Optical DVD Burner - $28
Antec 300 Case - $55
Arctic Silver 5 - $7
Shipping - $12

Using my build as a model, it's not hard to find the cost equivalents today.

Suggested build:
AMD Phenom II X4 3.2GHz - $160
Gigabyte MOBO - $80
A-Data 4GB DDR3 1333 - $85
EVGA GTX 460 - $200
Antec 620W PSU - $80
Samsung 1TB 7200RPM HDD - $60
ASUS BD DVD Drive (Not Burner) - $50
Cooler Master Case - $50
Arctic Silver 5 - $10
Shipping - $10
----------------------------------
Total: $785
Anything more is not needed, but you do have room to expand with a SSD, better RAM, whatever you like =D

As for a monitor, Samsung is great, just stay away from the Monitor/TV hybrids. Mine has deep sides (causing annoying reflections) and came with two bright spots >_>

Best of luck with your build!

jonnieboi05 · Aug 14, 2010, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Have you looked at the Hanns-G monitors? They have 28'' monitor for ~$300. Obviously, it is 1920x1200 resolution and 1080p.

Type in 'HG281D' in google search; that is the monitor's "name".

Elder III · Aug 14, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Well you are overspending on nearly every item - so why are you limiting yourself to a dual core? The i3 is a nice little CPU, but for an Autocad workstation/gaming computer you really should get an i5 750. Also, there are 4gb RAm kits for around $100, you can get a mobo with the same features for $50 less and Corsair charges 2x more than you "need" to pay for a name brand PSU of the same wattage...... Make a couple changes and you can easily get back the extra $80 an i5 750 will cost you.

jonnieboi05 · Aug 14, 2010, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Here's the monitor I mentioned. I am sure you can find it on TigerDirect.

Nihilim Dhiamara · Aug 14, 2010, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

I run AutoDesk 2011 software, mostly AutoCAD and Inventor for modeling (educational, but the same program). I also play Guild Wars extensively, and occasionally use 4 clients. The former runs extremely smoothly, and the latter runs 60FPS in all 4 clients when opened, all in the highest graphics settings except for AA (only in my main client, haven't tried otherwise). My computer was assembled summer last year, and only cost $786 (+$260 for 23" Samsung 1920x1200 monitor). While I didn't put in a blue-ray player or SSD, I think you are spending far more than you need to.

Here is my old build and pricing (at the time):
AMD Phenom II X3 720 (2.8GHz) - $120
Gigabyte AM3 AMD 770/710SB - $80
Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 RAM 1600 - $100
Ati Radeon 4890 XXX - $220
OCZ 750W PSU - $100
Western Digital 1TB Caviar Green - $85
Samsung Optical DVD Burner - $28
Antec 300 Case - $55
Arctic Silver 5 - $7
Shipping - $12

Using my build as a model, it's not hard to find the cost equivalents today.

Suggested build:
AMD Phenom II X4 3.2GHz - $160
Gigabyte MOBO - $80
A-Data 4GB DDR3 1333 - $85
EVGA GTX 460 - $200
Antec 620W PSU - $80
Samsung 1TB 7200RPM HDD - $60
ASUS BD DVD Drive (Not Burner) - $50
Cooler Master Case - $50
Arctic Silver 5 - $10
Shipping - $10
----------------------------------
Total: $785
Anything more is not needed, but you do have room to expand with a SSD, better RAM, whatever you like =D

As for a monitor, Samsung is great, just stay away from the Monitor/TV hybrids. Mine has deep sides (causing annoying reflections) and came with two bright spots >_>

Best of luck with your build!

Don't use a caviar green as boot drive, they are slower then the caviar black and samsung spinpoint f3

Ariena Najea · Aug 14, 2010, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilim Dhiamara

Don't use a caviar green as boot drive, they are slower then the caviar black and samsung spinpoint f3

I leave my computer on for months on end, so it doesn't bother me. If boot speed is a big issue, SSD is the way to go anyways.

jazilla · Aug 14, 2010, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Cheaper monitor and ditch the BluRAy burner IMO. Upgrade the HDD to a SSD. Check out Tested.com. They did a feature on building a NICE gaming rig for inexpensive. Your budget is better than what they built and they built a VERY solid gaming rig for much cheaper than the one you are talking about and it would run comparably well against yours.

Quaker · Aug 14, 2010, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madd Morgan

CPU ? will this chip handle my needs in this build? I have been looking at the i5 750 also?

The i3-530 may be enough for your CAD work - it would only be a matter of a few seconds difference to do something. But, if you plan to play GW, and, I assume, GW2, you would want a CPU with a bit more grunt. I would go with the i5-750 or 760. (Note - tigerdirect lists the i5-760, but I can't find it on Intel's website. But then again, Intel's website is like a maze when you try to find anything.)

Quote:

MOBO ? the specs on Tiger say that is doesn?t support i3?but I?ve heard that all P55 boards support the i3 chip?am I wrong?

Not sure about this, but maybe it's just a matter of not supporting the i3's on-chip graphics. You should go for the i5-750/760 anyway.

Quote:

HDD ? storage drive, read an article today that Samsungs life expectancy is 1 to 1.5 years. Hitachi was at 5yrs. That was with a 500gb HDD though. Any suggestions to another HDD manufacture.

Western Digital

Quote:

PSU ? is this enough wattage to cover my setup? Can I downgrade to 750w or another manufacture and possibly save some cash?

nVidia's recommends a 450watt supply for a single GTX460. Two GTx460s in SLI should require less than 650watts. So, 750watts is more than enough.

Quote:

GPU ? I read an awesome review on Tom?s saying that the GTX 460 1gb in SLi mode out performs the GTX 480. So, should I get the 460?s now or wait to purchase another one?or I could just get one 480?decisions decision.

I would suggest getting one GTX460 now and maybe adding another in SLI later, if you want/need the extra performance.

Quote:

Monitor ? how are the LED compared to LCD for monitors?

First off, both monitors are LCDs. LED is just the backlighting. In spite of the hype, the only significant difference between LED backlighting and the older cold-cathode fluorescent backlighting is that the LED ones can be thinner. So, it's not really a major decision point, and, given current trends, soon to be moot point since almost all LCD monitors will be LED backlit soon.

Elder III · Aug 14, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

The i3-530 may be enough for your CAD work - it would only be a matter of a few seconds difference to do something. But, if you plan to play GW, and, I assume, GW2, you would want a CPU with a bit more grunt. I would go with the i5-750 or 760. (Note - tigerdirect lists the i5-760, but I can't find it on Intel's website. But then again, Intel's website is like a maze when you try to find anything.)
.

the i5 760 is a new item on the market, and the only difference is that it's stock speed is 2.8 vs 2.66 - same cache, same power consumption, architecture etc... Personally I'd get a i5 750 and save the $20 premium. I highly doubt that you would notice any difference other than a stray benchmark or two being a little higher. Of course you can overclock either one to 3.5-3.6 without upping any voltage etc... 4ghz is quite attainable too if you want to mess around (no need to though lol).

*As usual I agree with everything that Quaker said - the dude knows his stuff.

Lord Sojar · Aug 16, 2010, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Samsung makes great drives, and that 1-1.5 yrs bull is just that, bull. Get an F3 drive, period.

Also.... get the 2x GTX 460s. That combo even destroys the HD5970 in the majority of tested games, and nVidia is more friendly for OpenCL/GPU Compute thanks to CUDA and now native C++ support.