Curse

Dawn Angelheart · Aug 25, 2010, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Hello, I'm looking into buying a new computer/ordering parts and having someone assemble it.

I pretty much want one made for gaming. I only use my computer for stuff like:

Internet browsing(Forums, facebook and emailing) Watching movies and Gaming.

The main interest being Gaming. I'm looking for a computer that could play thing on the very high end of the specs of games.

I only plan on playing GW/GW2, Diablo III and Star Craft II and it's expansions.

I've a budget from €800-1000 or at a push if it would make the difference €800-1200.

All I'm interested in is the tower. I've got everything else covered.

If anyones got anything I could take a look at, I'd be thankful

Elder III · Aug 25, 2010, 02:38 AM // 02:38

I'm not up on the prices of parts in England, but here's roughly what you could expect to get in the USA with your budget.

Core i5 750 = $200
P55 Mobo = $150
GTX 460 = $225
1TB HDD - $75
4GB DDR3 RAM = $100
Optical Drive = $25
Name Brand 750 watt PSU = $75
Quality Mid Size Tower = $75
CPU Cooler = $50

$975.00 - I purposely went high on the price of everything, so you could actually expect to pay a good $100-150 (or more) less than that if you looked for sales and combo deals etc. Of course prices in Europe are always higher than here too. That's the platform I would suggest to just about anyone looking for a new gaming PC right now. It will play the games you want to play at max settings with no trouble, and you can easily add a second video card down the road.

Dawn Angelheart · Aug 25, 2010, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

I'm not up on the prices of parts in England, but here's roughly what you could expect to get in the USA with your budget.

Core i5 750 = $200
P55 Mobo = $150
GTX 460 = $225
1TB HDD - $75
4GB DDR3 RAM = $100
Optical Drive = $25
Name Brand 750 watt PSU = $75
Quality Mid Size Tower = $75
CPU Cooler = $50

$975.00 - I purposely went high on the price of everything, so you could actually expect to pay a good $100-150 (or more) less than that if you looked for sales and combo deals etc. Of course prices in Europe are always higher than here too. That's the platform I would suggest to just about anyone looking for a new gaming PC right now. It will play the games you want to play at max settings with no trouble, and you can easily add a second video card down the road.

That's going to be enough? I know a little about computers. Nothing about assembling them. It would probably be more expensive here but any specific parts you'd recommend specifically?

Armageddon · Aug 25, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

and some spare cash to get a nice gaming mouse and keyboard

Quaker · Aug 25, 2010, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Angelheart

That's going to be enough?

It may depend a bit upon the resolution of your monitor, but unless it's something higher than 1920x1080, yes, that should be enough.

CPU-wise, there's not a whole lot of point in going beyond an i5-760 at this time. Few games will actually be CPU-limited with an i5-750/760 - that is, the CPU will not limit their performance - and the small extra performance you might get in other apps is not worth the money, and not noticeable unless you are heavily into editing large video files, etc.
I would recommend an i5-750 over any AMD Athlon or Phenom CPU at this time. The AMDs are great for budget systems, but your budget has lots of room for the Intel and (unfortunately) the i5/i7s do outperform the AMDs.

The GTX460 is a very good card, but you might consider an ATI-based HD5850 while you're at it. The HD5850 outperforms the GTX460, but the difference may not be worth the extra cost.

Dawn Angelheart · Aug 25, 2010, 10:50 PM // 22:50

I'm using a large tv as my pc monitor. I'm not sure the resolution. I just use it on wide screen.

I'm aware theres not much details out on gw2 and D3 but you think it's going to work well for this? This would be my first major spending into a computer so I kinda am looking for something really worth it and since I don't know much about it. I need the advice badly

Elder III · Aug 26, 2010, 12:30 AM // 00:30

this will rape GW2 and D3 --- period

Armageddon · Aug 26, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

It may depend a bit upon the resolution of your monitor, but unless it's something higher than 1920x1080, yes, that should be enough.

CPU-wise, there's not a whole lot of point in going beyond an i5-760 at this time. Few games will actually be CPU-limited with an i5-750/760 - that is, the CPU will not limit their performance - and the small extra performance you might get in other apps is not worth the money, and not noticeable unless you are heavily into editing large video files, etc.
I would recommend an i5-750 over any AMD Athlon or Phenom CPU at this time. The AMDs are great for budget systems, but your budget has lots of room for the Intel and (unfortunately) the i5/i7s do outperform the AMDs.

The GTX460 is a very good card, but you might consider an ATI-based HD5850 while you're at it. The HD5850 outperforms the GTX460, but the difference may not be worth the extra cost.

The 5850 is an extra £40 atm for around 400 3D Marks extra, but the 460 runs cooler and quieter

the 5850 is also double the price of a 4890 and definitely not double the performance, 2 4890's in crossfire would gain around 5500 3dmarks over a 5850 at about the same price

the Phenom x4 955 is only very slightly behind the i5-750 and is £60 cheaper, it has the best price / performance ratio atm

Quaker · Aug 26, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Angelheart

I'm using a large tv as my pc monitor. I'm not sure the resolution. I just use it on wide screen.

You should find out the resolution of the TV because programs will look best if your desktop/game resolution matches it. (RTFM

)

Quote:

I'm aware theres not much details out on gw2 and D3 but you think it's going to work well for this? This would be my first major spending into a computer so I kinda am looking for something really worth it and since I don't know much about it. I need the advice badly

NCsoft has stated that GW2 "runs best" on a quad-core CPU.
Check out these links (you too Armageddon):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2921/2
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-970,2698.html
for an idea of the relative performance of CPUs

Graphics wise, if you find that one card such as a GTX460 or HD5850 is not enough, you can always add another card in SLI/CFX configuration.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ming,2697.html

An i5-750 plus a GTX460 will definitely be able to play GW2 smoothly at a relatively high graphics setting. It's possible that it may require a more powerful setup to run at "max" settings.

Armageddon · Aug 26, 2010, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

NCsoft has stated that GW2 "runs best" on a quad-core CPU.
Check out these links (you too Armageddon):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2921/2
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-970,2698.html
for an idea of the relative performance of CPUs

ah I'm not denying the i5 750 is a better cpu, but not a lot better than the x4 955 and costs 66% more

heres some links

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...enom+II+X4+955

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...70,2698-5.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Graphics wise, if you find that one card such as a GTX460 or HD5850 is not enough, you can always add another card in SLI/CFX configuration.

Yep I agree, I run 2 HD 4850's in crossfire, which beats both the GTX460 and the HD5850 in benchmarks and atm only cost £60 each !

the only irritation is that noise is doubled, so when the fans are on max my machine is quite noisy

though if you plan on doing that in the future (worth it imo) make sure you get a motherboard with 2 pcie 16x slots

Elder III · Aug 27, 2010, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Yeah I have 2 4850's in CrossfireX and they do quite well - the only problem is they struggle with AA at 1920 x 1080. No DX11 of course, which isn't much of a problem. Another note, I recently went from a Phenom II 940 to a i5 750 and my performance in "newer" games such as Far Cry 2 and Stalker Call of Prpyat, went up 10-12%.... I happened to have a really good deal come my way on a P55 mobo, so for me the price difference was not noticeable (vs the Phenom II series), but it really boils down to what your budget is imo.

Snograt · Aug 27, 2010, 05:47 PM // 17:47

What store is that, Armageddon? It's not the usual UK suspects, i.e. Overclockers, Novatech or Aria.

Just curious...

Armageddon · Aug 27, 2010, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

What store is that, Armageddon? It's not the usual UK suspects, i.e. Overclockers, Novatech or Aria.

Just curious...

http://www.ebuyer.com

used to be better on most prices than those you listed but now its about the same, still get some good deals from there though

Undead Cheese · Aug 28, 2010, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armageddon

the 5850 is also double the price of a 4890 and definitely not double the performance, 2 4890's in crossfire would gain around 5500 3dmarks over a 5850 at about the same price

What? who cares about 3DMark, or any other synthetic benchmarks? I would still choose a 5850 over the 4890, the 4890 is older, runs hotter, is louder (which can be fixed by aftermarket cooling, but that adds onto the price), much more power hungry and is not DX11. The 5850 isn't a great buy right now either, for mid range I suggest the GTX 460, which trumps over everything currently for price/performance, until ATI decide to drop prices that is.

@OP, Most things have been covered already, but about the Powersupply. You will not be needing something like 750W for a i5 and a GTX 460, a rig like that can very easily run on a 450W, even overclocked. Another thing people tend to do is confuse ''Total power consumption'' of graphics cards/CPU's to ''Total SYSTEM power consumption'' and therefore overspec PSU's to people. Total system power consumption is the wattage the whole PC uses, alot (90%) of reviewers use that method.

As for your PSU, I would recommend either a Seasonic S12II-520W, Antec TPN-550W, or a Antec Neo ECO 520w, these three PSU's are pretty much the best you can get in that wattage range right now in terms of performance.

An i5 and a GTX 460 will be able to max out GW2 period, there is no question about it. Heck, I bet I'll be able to max it out at good frame rates on my single HD 4850.

Armageddon · Aug 28, 2010, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

What? who cares about 3DMark, or any other synthetic benchmarks?

well its used for comparison, without knowing which games the OP will be playing in the future (since some run better on ATI, others on NV) a generic benchmark will give you a better comparison between the cards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

I would still choose a 5850 over the 4890, the 4890 is older, runs hotter, is louder (which can be fixed by aftermarket cooling, but that adds onto the price), much more power hungry and is not DX11. The 5850 isn't a great buy right now either, for mid range I suggest the GTX 460, which trumps over everything currently for price/performance, until ATI decide to drop prices that is.

I agree, thats why I suggested the 460

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

@OP, Most things have been covered already, but about the Powersupply. You will not be needing something like 750W for a i5 and a GTX 460, a rig like that can very easily run on a 450W, even overclocked. Another thing people tend to do is confuse ''Total power consumption'' of graphics cards/CPU's to ''Total SYSTEM power consumption'' and therefore overspec PSU's to people. Total system power consumption is the wattage the whole PC uses, alot (90%) of reviewers use that method.

As for your PSU, I would recommend either a Seasonic S12II-520W, Antec TPN-550W, or a Antec Neo ECO 520w, these three PSU's are pretty much the best you can get in that wattage range right now in terms of performance.

a 450w would be pushing it a bit, but 550w and above should do fine, more important is the amperage on the 12v rail, for the GTX460 you need at least (recommended) 24A
the Antec TruePower New 550w you mentioned only delivers 20A per rail and if one rail overloads the psu will shut down, so while the system might boot, as soon as you run anything graphically intensive your pc will crash.

the other two you listed should be ok as they both have a single 12v rail capable of 40A - and the one I listed above has a 50A single 12v rail

Elder III · Aug 28, 2010, 02:13 PM // 14:13

500-550 watts with a good amount of amps is plenty for that setup, but if you can get a 700 watt for $20-30 more you should do it, gives you room to upgrade, to overclock, to get a second video card in a year or so, etc...

Armageddon · Aug 28, 2010, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

500-550 watts with a good amount of amps is plenty for that setup, but if you can get a 700 watt for $20-30 more you should do it, gives you room to upgrade, to overclock, to get a second video card in a year or so, etc...

not to mention the 'Capacitor Aging' - PSU's will lose maybe 20% wattage capacity in as little as a years time with heavy use

a higher rated supply will also run more efficient which will decrease the amount of capacitor aging and run cooler

Undead Cheese · Aug 28, 2010, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armageddon

well its used for comparison, without knowing which games the OP will be playing in the future (since some run better on ATI, others on NV) a generic benchmark will give you a better comparison between the cards

I agree, thats why I suggested the 460

a 450w would be pushing it a bit, but 550w and above should do fine, more important is the amperage on the 12v rail, for the GTX460 you need at least (recommended) 24A
the Antec TruePower New 550w you mentioned only delivers 20A per rail and if one rail overloads the psu will shut down, so while the system might boot, as soon as you run anything graphically intensive your pc will crash.

the other two you listed should be ok as they both have a single 12v rail capable of 40A - and the one I listed above has a 50A single 12v rail

450W is not pushing it at all, that rig while 100% stressed with cosume under 400w guaranteed. The TDP of a GTX 460 is around the 5850/5870 territory. The rails will not overload. You can only overload rails on a poorly designed PSU, decent ones will distribute the power load. The ONLY difference between single rail and multi rail is that the OCP. The whole single rail is better thing is simple a marketing ploy.

Secondly, the GTX 460 does not consume 24A, the recommended amount of amps Nvdia suggests is the power consumption of the WHOLE system. If the GTX 460 consumed 24A then that would be almost 300W (288 exact) for the card alone, as amps x 12 = watts.

Armageddon · Aug 28, 2010, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

450W is not pushing it at all, that rig while 100% stressed with cosume under 400w guaranteed. The TDP of a GTX 460 is around the 5850/5870 territory. The rails will not overload. You can only overload rails on a poorly designed PSU, decent ones will distribute the power load. The ONLY difference between single rail and multi rail is that the OCP. The whole single rail is better thing is simple a marketing ploy.

Put the spec in here, minimum recommended is 453w - and peak load of 498w
http://www.antec.outervision.com/PSUEngine

Good supplys will distribute the power load across the rails but can overallocate power requirements which could be used elsewhere, single rail supplys dont do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Cheese

Secondly, the GTX 460 does not consume 24A, the recommended amount of amps Nvdia suggests is the power consumption of the WHOLE system. If the GTX 460 consumed 24A then that would be almost 300W (288 exact) for the card alone, as amps x 12 = watts.

no it doesn't consume 24A (did I say it did?) but its not the only thing running, the GTX 460 uses 160w peak load, about 13.5A, the i5 uses about 180w under load (15A) then theres everything else that needs power

we really could debate the point all day, even the industry is split as to which is better

but when it comes down to it, what are the drawbacks of having a higher rated power supply at the same price?

you only use what the machine draws and maxing the supplys capability will increase deterioration and reduce the lifespan, it will also limit the potential for upgrading in the future

Undead Cheese · Aug 28, 2010, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armageddon

Put the spec in here, minimum recommended is 453w - and peak load of 498w
http://www.antec.outervision.com/PSUEngine

Good supplys will distribute the power load across the rails but can overallocate power requirements which could be used elsewhere, single rail supplys dont do that.

no it doesn't consume 24A (did I say it did?) but its not the only thing running, the GTX 460 uses 160w peak load, about 13.5A, the i5 uses about 180w under load (15A) then theres everything else that needs power

we really could debate the point all day, even the industry is split as to which is better

but when it comes down to it, what are the drawbacks of having a higher rated power supply at the same price?

you only use what the machine draws and maxing the supplys capability will increase deterioration and reduce the lifespan, it will also limit the potential for upgrading in the future

Again, any good quality PSU will not have any issues with overloading anything. A stock i5 750 certainly does not consume 180w, not even close. The only difference between Single and Multi rail PSU's in the lower wattage range (<550w or so) is when and how the OCP kicks in, nothing else. The whole rails overloading problem existed a few years ago on older PSU's, not now.

As for drawbacks, you can end up getting a lower performing PSU, in terms of electrical noise, ripple supression, voltage regulation, rated ambient. A PSU is the most vital part of your PC, getting a great performing one instead of an average/mediocre one can mean the world of difference if anything bad was to happen.

I didn't actually recommend a 450w either, I just said that a 450w PSU will actually work fine, I recommended a 550w unit and two 520w's, which is enough to power a single GTX 480.

Also, it would not be anywhere near to maxing out a 500-550w, under BOTH Prime95/LinX and Furmark or any other stress tests you may use, the rig would not exceed 400w if not overclocked. Under general gaming (which doesn't stress a PC anywhere near the amount that stress tests do) it would not exceed 350w.

Lastly, all PSU ''calculators'' are innacurate.

These are my recommendations:
Antec 520 Neo ECO
Antec TPN-550 or 650 if you really wan't that headroom
Seasonic S12II 520 or 620. Modular versions of this PSU are M12II-520/620

I'm not trying to start an arguement with you or anything, but I am quite strong on my PSU knowledge.