Curse

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 12, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Hi
I'm going to buy a new motherboard with an intel c2q q6600 processor and 2 gb of ram (it comes in a set). The motherboard is an asus p5k. Now, as far as i can understand, the size is something called ATX. Now i googled the motherboard that I have right now, it came with my pavilion m7560.nl, and its a RC410-M, manufactured by ECS.
here are the specifications of the computer:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/g...reg_R1002_USEN
now, after googling the motherboard, i found out that i have a micro-atx motherboard. Can i fit a normal ATX motherboard in the same case (a regular pavilion case)?
And another question.
Will i need to reinstall windows and download new drivers after i attach the new cpu and stuff?
because HP only gave me a partition which will restore factory defaults, and
that also means drivers, which will, i guess, totally be wrong as I now have a new motherboard. Am I right?

Nanood · Feb 12, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

1. Get a new case.
2. Install MB and any other useful stuff you have salvaged from HP box.
3. Install Fresh copy of operating system.

Installing a HD with a windows installation onto a new MB is difficult and usually unsucessful. New drivers are always a better option.

If you have another good size HD you can always make that the primary and put yr HP HD as a secondary to make sure you have access to all yr information.

Quad cores are great for intensive work like compression, encoding etc but will not give you any worthwhile gaming benefits in GW and will more often than not cause you issues. Of course this is not the case in all games.

I'm not sure why you would pick the standard option on the P5K when the deluxe version has much better options like
1) Wifi adapter
2) Black PCB
3) Advanced BIOS Options
4) 6 Sata Ports (4 on normal)
5) 10 USB ports (normal 12)
6) Bigger HeatsinkS solution
7) Dual LAN
8) ICH9R
9) Better Audio Codec + Optical Audio Jack

Food for thought

Quaker · Feb 13, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasha the Mighty

Hi
I'm going to buy a new motherboard with an intel c2q q6600 processor and 2 gb of ram (it comes in a set). The motherboard is an asus p5k. Now, as far as i can understand, the size is something called ATX..... Can i fit a normal ATX motherboard in the same case (a regular pavilion case)?
And another question.
Will i need to reinstall windows and download new drivers after i attach the new cpu and stuff?

The answer to the first question depends upon the size of the case. ATX is bigger than MATX. The connectors on the back are in the same place and the board is the same size front to back, but ATX has more space for more PCI slots.
If you open up your current computer and the motherboard goes all the way to the bottom of the case with no empty space, then the ATX won't fit.
In that case, you'll need a new case too. (Or you could find a different MATX motherboard.)

In answer to the second question - you may not need to completely re-install windows - a "repair" should do. The basic procedure would be (for XP):
- boot the computer from the windows CD (you may need to change the boot order in the BIOS)
- XP will load a bunch of stuff and then examine the disks and do other things .
- at some point it may ask you if you want to Repair windows using the "recovery console" - don't choose that option.
- if you have more than one hard drive/partition, it will ask which drive/partition to use. Choose the same one you use now.
- windows will find the current installation of windows and eventually ask you if you want to "Repair" the current installation, or make a fresh install. (This is NOT the same "Repair using console" option displayed earlier.)
- Hit "R" to repair the current installation. Have the driver disk for the new motherboard handy. (And any other driver disks you may need)

After the "repair" you should have all your old desktop settings, etc., still in place.

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 13, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanood

I'm not sure why you would pick the standard option on the P5K when the deluxe version has much better options like
1) Wifi adapter
2) Black PCB
3) Advanced BIOS Options
4) 6 Sata Ports (4 on normal)
5) 10 USB ports (normal 12)
6) Bigger HeatsinkS solution
7) Dual LAN
8) ICH9R
9) Better Audio Codec + Optical Audio Jack

Food for thought

The reason I'm getting the P5K is that it's the only mobo that I can buy in a set which includes 2GB of 800Mhz of ram and a C2Q q6600. I can get the set for 379,- euros, which is cheaper than getting the components one by one (i live in holland, that's why it's in euros)
btw, what is the advantage of a black pcb and dual lan, and what is ich9r?
I was thinking of getting a Cooler Master CM 690 (black) case, any feedback on that? I'm not looking for anything flashy or good looking, just need a good case which supports ATX and all that.
Also, I'm eventually also gonna buy a geforce en8800GT, so i think my 300W power supply wont cut it (XD). How much will i need?
And a third question (by now, you've probably figured out that untill now I just bought ready made systems).
I read what quaker posted about repairing XP, but I was wondering if it wouldn't just be easier to reinstall XP, or even Vista. However, I've read about some driver compatibility problems (and also experienced it on a laptop), and still wondering if I should just stick to XP. Is DX10 really worth all the hassle?

Riot Narita · Feb 13, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

I am guessing that your Pavillion came with an OEM version of Windows XP. If so, you may have "activation" problems whether you twiddle the existing installation or reinstall from scratch. Now, I am NOT sure about this, but if I remember correctly, OEM copies of Windows are tied to a particular PC, and if you try to use it in a PC that looks different enough (eg. new motherboard and CPU), it won't work.

I believe retail copies of Windows do something similar but are less stringent about hardware changes -if you have a retail copy, and it won't activate, a phone call to Microsoft support might be required but they should activate your Windows for you.

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 13, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Yeah you're right about the OEM version, I didn't get an installation disk though, I got a restore partition, that's the only way i can reinstall XP. But obtaining the software isn't the problem, a friend of mine can get (legal) activation keys from his job, so that's why I'm in doubt wether I should get XP pro or Vista ultimate. So is dx10 worth it? And can anybody recommend a good power supply (not too expensive, dont wanna pay too much for it XD)

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 15, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

OK, I think i'm gonna buy the cooler master cm 690, and the Corsair CMPSU-550VX PSU. It's a 550W psu. Will 550w cut it if i have a 8800gt 1GB, a C2D q6600 and an asus P5k with 2GB of 800 MHz of ram, and like 2 dvd drives (one writer), and one HDD? And does anybody have any feedback on the case and psu? All help is appreciated, and thanks for the help

Quaker · Feb 15, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasha the Mighty

OK, I think i'm gonna buy the cooler master cm 690, and the Corsair CMPSU-550VX PSU. It's a 550W psu. Will 550w cut it if i have a 8800gt 1GB, a C2D q6600 and an asus P5k with 2GB of 800 MHz of ram, and like 2 dvd drives (one writer), and one HDD? And does anybody have any feedback on the case and psu? All help is appreciated, and thanks for the help

Cooler Master makes good cases. (I have one.)

550watts should be enough for that setup, but you may want to check nVidia's recommendations for the 8800GT, and check that the power supply is a newer one that comes with power connectors for the video card.

I just recently got a new laptop that came with Vista. I must admit that I like the look&feel of Vista, but it has a few quirks that I found annoying. (like the read-only folder fiasco).
Since your video card, mobo, and processor will be new, you shouldn't have any driver problems with Vista. You may have some problems with old software. (sometimes linked to the read-only folder thing)
Oh, and you may want to consider more than 2 gigs of RAM with Vista.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasha the Mighty

btw, what is the advantage of a black pcb and dual lan, and what is ich9r?

There is no advantage to a black motherboard, it's just for looks. Dual LAN is only useful if you have an actual use for 2 LAN connectors (which most people don't) - if you have to ask, you don't need it.

I have no idea what ICH9R is.

BFG · Feb 16, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

The ICH9R is the Southbridge chip. The main difference between it and the ICH9 is RAID support.

N E D M · Feb 16, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

i recommendcooler master elite 330 case - cheap andwill fit atx and matx boards
make sure your PSU is atx or you wil have nightmares

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 16, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Thnx for the recommendation, but I think I'm sticking with the cm 690. I know it's more expensive, but It's got good reviews on a few sites I checked, and also the dutch site that I originally found it (the site links to the cheapest sites where I can buy one, so they're not paid for good reviews). Also, I've also read how easy it is to put everything in place, and I think that would be convenient as this is the first time I'm doing this

Also, I've been meaning to ask, what is northbridge and southbridge? From googling it, i found a few sites, but they were about as clear as mud, so I was wondering if somebody could explain it to me?

lordpwn · Feb 16, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasha the Mighty

Also, I've been meaning to ask, what is northbridge and southbridge? From googling it, i found a few sites, but they were about as clear as mud, so I was wondering if somebody could explain it to me?

See the wikipedia article for a nice diagram.

To summarize, the two chips make up the motherboard's "chipset", with the northbridge handling direct communications between the CPU, RAM and any PCI-E/AGP video cards. It's also linked to the southbridge, which manages the somewhat less demanding I/O like access to mass storage (hard/CD/DVD/... drives), the PCI bus, onboard audio and network chips, etc.

Historically, one of the most defining aspects of the "northbridge" has been the system's memory controller integrated into it. AMD moved away from this with the Athlon 64, integrating it into the CPU for some extra bandwidth that's very noticeable in certain memory-heavy benchmarks, so the concept of the northbridge is a little fuzzy on AMD motherboards. Intel may be moving in this direction too with their next processor architecture that's still too far from release to be sure of anything.

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 19, 2008, 11:19 AM // 11:19

OK thanks for the explanation.
Should I go with XP or Vista Ultimate?

Rushin Roulette · Feb 19, 2008, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Depeonds on what you are planning. If as you said it is easy for you to get activation keys legaly, then its purely up to what you need.

1. Fast system with "less" quirks an no plans on buying DX10 able games in the near futur go for XP Professional

2. You are building a system which can handle Vista without any problems (overkill) and are goign to be buying DX10 games, then go for Vista Ultimate.

If you mainly need the PC for work and GW, then you will be better off with XP aswell. (with an option of upgrading to Vista later form your friend)

lordpwn · Feb 19, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

If you aren't interested in the few DX10 games out there, just go with XP. Vista doesn't really offer anything else besides slightly better security and some UI tweaks, which I, as an experienced XP/2000 user, found mostly annoying rather than helpful.

One exception to the above: if you'd have more than 2 gigabytes of RAM it might be worth considering Vista 64 bit, as Windows XP's 64 bit version isn't very mature and often suffers from incompatibilities, which the 64 bit version of Vista doesn't seem to have. Vista's resource hogging isn't as much of a problem with 4 GB's of RAM anyway.

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 19, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

This computer is mainly gonna be for gaming, and less often schoolwork. I've heard of some incompatibility with 64bit though. How about I install them both? That's possible right? Or is that pure crap? So only games that are especially made for DX10 have a noticeable improvement?
Im planning to add a 8800gt 1GB later on, so that's why i'm upgrading. Current mobo has incompatibility issues with all the ram brands i could find, and 1GB of ram would hold a 8800gt back.
When I have the 8800GT (like 2 months, I'm spending a lot this month on case+mobo+psu+cooling and stuff), I'm gonna get crysis. That uses dx10 features right?

iridescentfyre · Feb 19, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordpwn

One exception to the above: if you'd have more than 2 gigabytes of RAM it might be worth considering Vista 64 bit, as Windows XP's 64 bit version isn't very mature and often suffers from incompatibilities, which the 64 bit version of Vista doesn't seem to have.

Confusingly, there are two very separate versions of 64-bit XP. There is "Windows XP 64-bit Edition," released in 2003 and designed for the Intel Itanium architecture, and "Windows XP Professional x64," just released last March. The 2003 version was unstable, unoptimized for most consumer 64-bit processors, and sucked overall. Its probably the one you're thinking of.

The 2007 version is much, much better and I use it myself. Its built on the Windows Server 2003 kernel and in my opinion is noticeably more stable than even XP 32-bit. I can't vouch for every company when it comes to drivers, but I use 64-bit drivers from Nvidia, Creative, and Logitech with no issues whatsoever. I do have to use a beta Nvidia driver for my nForce3 motherboard, but eh, I've never had any issues with it.

For games that actually use 64-bit processing, its definitely the OS of choice in my opinion.

lordpwn · Feb 19, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Confusingly, there are two very separate versions of 64-bit XP. There is "Windows XP 64-bit Edition," released in 2003 and designed for the Intel Itanium architecture, and "Windows XP Professional x64," just released last March. The 2003 version was unstable, unoptimized for most consumer 64-bit processors, and sucked overall. Its probably the one you're thinking of.

No, it isn't - who'd think of an old 64-bit desktop OS for a mostly failed server CPU architecture?

Windows XP Professional x64 is definitely more stable than that, but last I checked its driver situation is pretty bad as many companies don't bother making proper drivers for it since its driver architecture is different from Vista's and its adoption rate is even lower. It also won't be getting XP's Service Pack 3 due to said adoption rate.

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 21, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

ordered the case today

Is vista ultimate better (im not gonna install 64bit,too much of a hassle) or not?

Pasha the Mighty · Feb 26, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Ok I changed my mind today. I'm not buying the set any more. I have the case, and I'm happy with that. I decided to get a the TX650 PSU from Corsair, it has 650W (just to play it safe). Also, I found out that if I searched long enough, i could get the parts cheaper if I bought them separately, instead of in a set. But then I decided that I wanted a p5k-e /wifi-ap instead of a normal P5k (it's a P5K deluxe with just one gigabit ethernet thingy). I'm also getting Corsair TWIN2X2048-8500C5D memory, initially 2 GB maybe another 2GB later. Should I stick with the Q6600? I read somewhere that a dual core processor is faster for games, even if they're both clocked at the same speed. I usually play GW and watch like movies and stuff, but I'm upgrading so my pc can play some of the more recent shooters. When playing GW, I usually have Firefox opened for wiki and stuff like that. So pretty much all i do is play games, watch movies, browse (sometimes while watching a movie), and like use word and stuff. Oh and ofcourse listen to music. What's best for me? A dual core processor (being an E8500) or a quad core (Q6600)?
And I've read a few places that a scythe mugen doesn't fit on a p5k-e, while other places (including scythe's forum) say it does. Does it?
Thanks