Curse

Leonora Windleaf · Jun 16, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Hello all

In the next 2 months, I want to upgrade my PC. While my current one is rather decent atm, I don't think it's good enough for a long while. Here's what I got:

CPU: Core 2 Duo E6750
Motherboard: Asus P5GC-MX
RAM: 2x 1024 Kingston DDR2 667
GPU: nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS 320
PSU: BeQuiet 500W
Case: Thermaltake Soprano
HD: Samsung HD320KJ

What I want to change is mainly the Motherboard, RAM and GPU. For this I was thinking of:

Motherboard: an nvidia 680i chipset for 2way SLI (need some tips here, which one specifically or better/cheaper alternative)
RAM: standard DDR2-800 RAM (3 GB preferably)
GPU: 2x Zotec 9800 GTX AMP! (again, need some tips here, and if there's a better/cheaper alternative)

Since this will probably use alot of power, I will have to upgrade to a better PSU, again I could use some tips on that.

Feel free to drop some advice, much appreciated!

eggrolls · Jun 16, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

What games are you running? What resolution and settings? I wouldn't go SLI unless the games and settings you use actually see a benefit from it.

Upgrading the RAM won't give you much of a performance boost. 3GB of RAM is such an odd number. Either stick with the 2GB you have now, or go for 4GB so you don't end up with 2x512MB sticks.

zamial · Jun 16, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

nvidia yes. 680i no. I am suggesting the 780i. I own 1. the 780i supports sata2 and has more upgradeability. It is the last of the ddr2 series. and still supports 45nm chips.(altho that is a little misleading as fsb is a lil low for them)

bang for the buck:
- evga 780i mobo
- intel 775 duo or quad, debate is still out on that argument especially when overclocking. to cool it I also suggest a zalman 9700 cooler.
- 4-8 gigs of sli ddr2 240 pin ram (I use ocz)
- 1 (2 if ya can afford it) 8800gt vid cards (I like evga explained at bottom)
- a sound card
- a sata2 hard drive if you can afford it, if not sata is just fine. I like western digital.
- cases are a personal choice depending what you want. but look at mid size or full, if you need a monolith. Also pretty doesn't mean good, air flow is a must 120mm fans is the way of the walk.
- psu a decent 750 watt or bigger should work well, google the company or bad computer power supplys and see what comes up. there are bad psu's out there so be careful. I like anything tagan.
- get a lite-on cd an ide is perfect and cheap.
- vista 64 bit(you can get ultimate cheap if you get a oem system builders version)

The above system will play everything I have thrown at it, I have not tried crysis, the game is over-hyped and is basically used as a benchmark. I would like to upgrade to a 9800gx2 vid card(s) but there is no game out there, currently, that will benefit from that set up other than crysis.

I like evga for multiple reasons, they have great forums for help and support. not to mention the roll-up plans.

The Meth · Jun 17, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Remember, anything more then 3 gigs of memory is pretty much useless if you are running 32-bit. Anyone saying 4 gigs or more of ram for 32 bit will help you is misleading. I am still not going to even think about touching vista with a 20-foot pole for a while, so use vista 64bit at your own risk.

If you wait a bit for the new Nvidia cards to come out the 9800's will probably experience a price drop, so you might want to consider that. Personally I have always viewed SLI as an extravagent waste of money and power, but thats your choice.

Lord Sojar · Jun 17, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

I would wait it out. Your rig is pretty decent for the time being. Wait until Christmas time. I cannot mention specifics, but you will pleasantly surprised what is coming in late Q4 of 2008, and I am not just talking about nVidia offerings.

If you are truly committed to upgrading now, here is what you will want to do.

nVidia 780i Mainboard
nVidia GTX 260 or 280 (whichever your budget allows, and if you can get 2 or 3 of them, do so)
Depending on your graphics card setup, a larger PSU. 600+ watts for one GTX 280, 800w+ for 2, and 1000w for 3. For the 260, 600+ for 1, 700+ for 2, and 850+ for 3.

Faster RAM. I would go with Crucial Ballistix DDR2 1066. Great RAM, well priced, and unbelievable performer. You want 3-4GBs, even in the XP Pro environment. However, I would recommend Vista Ultimate 64bit if you really want to get the most out of the newest technology.

Your current CPU is fine. Your current HDD is also fine.

Get a SATA DVD+-RW drive to speed up performance on disk based games. You won't be disappointed.

You are from Luxembourg, so I am not sure which etailer sites sell and deliver to you. Point me in the direction of one, and I will find the proper product links for you. Hopefully the site is in English, but if it is in German, I guess that is ok. Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch, weil sie meine zweite Sprache ist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

If you wait a bit for the new Nvidia cards to come out the 9800's will probably experience a price drop, so you might want to consider that. Personally I have always viewed SLI as an extravagent waste of money and power, but thats your choice.

Not quite. Fabrication prices are set. Unless there is a die shrink, the prices don't suddenly drop drastically. Newer technology is, in reality, generally cheaper then previous generation tech after prices have settled a bit. Funny how that works. Don't expect to see huge price cuts on the 8 and 9 series. Maybe a few sales from select retailers, but the price thresholds are not going to drop too much.

Lurid · Jun 17, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

I'm with Rahja. Swapping to a faster Dual Core is going to net you very little gain for your money. You simply won't notice a difference, and if you do its probably in your head. Quad core won't help unless you're dual is already maxed through say...video encoding or very intense image editing.

Depending on what games you play adding two more 1024 sticks of RAM may smooth any ALT Tab lag, and / or help with loading. Honestly I doubt very seriously you really want to pull the trigger on those 9800GTX's, because for one its a huge waste of money.

I'd wager a guess than your G80 runs most if not all the games you play at reasonably high settings and frame rates. Do you really want to drop $600 + $ for motherboard / new PSU and deal with the added heat? I mean its for you to decide, but if your G80 handles the games you play well i'd strongly suggest holding out to see what nVidia and ATi can come up with in the mean time.

eggrolls · Jun 17, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Faster RAM. I would go with Crucial Ballistix DDR2 1066. Great RAM, well priced, and unbelievable performer.

Just curious, but why the need for really fast RAM? I know those are cheap and all, but does having 1066 make a noticeable difference (to the human eye) in games compared to 800 or 667?

Lord Sojar · Jun 17, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggrolls

Just curious, but why the need for really fast RAM? I know those are cheap and all, but does having 1066 make a noticeable difference (to the human eye) in games compared to 800 or 667?

It isn't the video rate that is really affected. A higher speed RAM module creates less of a bottleneck between the CPU, memory controller, and DIMM. The slower the RAM, the longer it takes for a full section of data to be written/read. RAM that matches more closely with your FSB or exceeds it is highly desired. While the performance boost may be small in some areas, in others it can be quite significant. Essentially, think of it this way; you are allowing your system to go to its full potential rather than a single component holding the entire system back. (Take a Porsche G3 and put a Chevy Cobalt transmission in it, what do you think would happen provided it actually functioned?)

Leonora Windleaf · Jun 17, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Thanks everyone for replying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I would wait it out. Your rig is pretty decent for the time being. Wait until Christmas time. I cannot mention specifics, but you will pleasantly surprised what is coming in late Q4 of 2008, and I am not just talking about nVidia offerings.

If you are truly committed to upgrading now, here is what you will want to do.

nVidia 780i Mainboard
nVidia GTX 260 or 280 (whichever your budget allows, and if you can get 2 or 3 of them, do so)
Depending on your graphics card setup, a larger PSU. 600+ watts for one GTX 280, 800w+ for 2, and 1000w for 3. For the 260, 600+ for 1, 700+ for 2, and 850+ for 3.

Faster RAM. I would go with Crucial Ballistix DDR2 1066. Great RAM, well priced, and unbelievable performer. You want 3-4GBs, even in the XP Pro environment. However, I would recommend Vista Ultimate 64bit if you really want to get the most out of the newest technology.

Your current CPU is fine. Your current HDD is also fine.

Get a SATA DVD+-RW drive to speed up performance on disk based games. You won't be disappointed.

Thanks for the tips.
I suppose I can wait it out a bit for now. Like I said, it wont be before another 2-3 months, and things change alot in that time. I will consider the things you suggested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

You are from Luxembourg, so I am not sure which etailer sites sell and deliver to you. Point me in the direction of one, and I will find the proper product links for you. Hopefully the site is in English, but if it is in German, I guess that is ok. Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch, weil sie meine zweite Sprache ist.

Heh, well that is a problem. We don't have many PC hardware retailers here in Luxembourg. Most PC enthusiasts will order their stuff from Germany, because for one they have more offers than Belgium or France, and they have lower VAT. The problem with German retailers is, their paying methods suck :S
I can however order all kinds of stuff trough a small retail store for PC's in the area I live, but I don't know where they will order their stuff.

A site I was looking alot recently though was this one

The Meth · Jun 17, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Rahja I know you are quite a bit smarter when it comes to systems then me so correct me if I am wrong, but 4 gigs is mostly useless in a 32bit system, especially in the system you are describing. The reason is that even though the system supports 4 gig, your hardware is mapped to the same memory space and so this subtracts from the maximum usable memory. The most obvious example of this is the video card. If you install a 1 gig video card, your maximum usable memory is sliced down to 3 gigs right off. Other hardware devices subtract from the maximum usable memory limit in a similar fashion.

I do agree with keeping the current system for the moment. Heck thats pretty much the system I'm upgrading to over the next few weeks while some parts are ordered in.

zamial · Jun 17, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I wanted to say that I appologize to the OP. I thought you would be upgrading sooner than later, with my above suggestions.

With memory the more memory installed directly effects your virtual memory, and disk space used by it. It is normally a 1:1 ratio. So if you had 4 gigs installed the system would reserve 4 gigs of harddrive space to write to it.

Leonora Windleaf · Jun 17, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

I wanted to say that I appologize to the OP. I thought you would be upgrading sooner than later, with my above suggestions.

It's ok, it was my fault, I should have specified it a bit better earlier.

About the RAM, I'm not sure if I should switch to Vista 64bit yet. What I do know is that I will switch to vista, no matter what. I'm still running on XP Professional atm. I said 3Gb Ram because I know more will be useless on a 32bit system.

Another option I was thinking about was getting a 9800 GX2 instead of 2 9800 GTX's (or 2 8800 GTS 512), the former would be cheaper in the end. Having an SLI board, I can always choose if I want to add a second one later on, if the need arises.

The new GPU's seem interesting too, will see how the prices will develop in the comming weeks.

The reason I wanted to upgrade was mainly because the performance, while still ok atm, it's not very good to play more of the sophisticated games (crysis, for example, still gives me trouble on DX9 settings), and I want to have a good system that can give me above average performances for future releases. I'm running a 22" widescreen at 1680x1050 btw.

Gah, choices, choices, and I'm still no good with PC stuff to know whats really good and whats not. :S

zamial · Jun 17, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

About vista 64, I love it. But I built the system looking to the future. I have zero problems with it. Also windows 7, the os after vista is supposed to launch next year. Vista was the 1st stage of the longhorn progect and 7 is the completion of longhorn, as I understand it. I will never be the 1st person to buy a flying car but as they become more common and the bugs worked out, I will get on board. Same is true with operating systems. I dual booted xp and vista for 1 week, after that I next to never need to load up xp. I honestly don't remember the last time I booted up xp.

State of hardware atm:
- cpu's are all intel
- graphics cards seem to change ownership of #1 depending on what it is being tested, with what, on a monthly basis (new releases).
- ram ddr3 is next gen but timmings are not very good and it is wicked expensive.
- sound cards the best are owned by the shadiest company ever.
- hard drives *cough* velocoraptor *cough* 'nuf said
- the rest is all personal opinions and tastes, monitors,cases,keyboards,ect.

Hardware is miles ahead of the software industry, with few exceptions.

3 things for thought.

1 - To get on the bleeding edge you need deep pockets, to attempt to stay there is insanity. It may be more visually satisifing to actually light your money on fire. Set a limit, build it and be happy.(I built a "near the edge" system and I love it)

2 - not true?
Computers run on magic blue smoke. The smoke is always trying to escape and eventually it will. Usually, the more money you spend on parts, the longer it will hold in the smoke. By the time you see the smoke it is already to late.

3 - Build a entirly new computer w/new parts, if you have not done so recently, instead of upgrading. Turn your old comp into a MYTHTV box and be happy.(this is what the cool kids do.

) To be a cool kid, google is your freind.

Lord Sojar · Jun 17, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Rahja I know you are quite a bit smarter when it comes to systems then me so correct me if I am wrong, but 4 gigs is mostly useless in a 32bit system, especially in the system you are describing. The reason is that even though the system supports 4 gig, your hardware is mapped to the same memory space and so this subtracts from the maximum usable memory. The most obvious example of this is the video card. If you install a 1 gig video card, your maximum usable memory is sliced down to 3 gigs right off. Other hardware devices subtract from the maximum usable memory limit in a similar fashion.

I do agree with keeping the current system for the moment. Heck thats pretty much the system I'm upgrading to over the next few weeks while some parts are ordered in.

Sorta... it isn't quite as clean cut as that, but you are essentially correct. However, the 64bit upgrade is inevitable, so it is best to build a system with a 64bit architecture in mind, because you will most likely upgrade to that in the near future. Vista 64bit SP1 isn't really that bad. Remember, when XP came out, everyone screamed bloody murder that it was terrible and a system hog, and now everyone thinks it is all rays of sunshine and carebears. How times change. Windows 7 looks like it is going to be garbage, so Vista SP2 should make Vista very viable.

Snograt · Jun 18, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

The release of Vista finally stopped the loonies saying how much better 98SE was than XP. It's an ongoing thing - I remember the moans of Workbench 2 vs Workbench 1.3 (heh, old, old news).