Curse

Stadsport · Sep 22, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Hey all.
I searched. Found some similar threads but nothing dead on, and nothing with a solution, so I'm wondering if anyone has any input.
I bought a new Lenovo IdeaPad Y510. 2ghz Core 2 Duo, 3GB of ram, 250GB 5400RPM hdd, Intel X3100 gpu.
Guild Wars runs like crap, about 12-22fps.
-Disabling sound doesn't change it.
-Disabling aero, visual tweaks, setting to Windows Classic (a la Win2k) theme doesn't change it.
-Changing the game's resolution KIND of changes it (max FPS increase of 10, if that).
-Window/Full screen = no difference.
-Laptop came with Vista Home Premium, ran the same on that as it does on the current fresh install of Windows Ultimate. Both include SP1.
-All drivers are up to date.
-Laptop is in High Performance mode.
-CPU affinity set to just once CPU makes no difference.
And before anyone tells me that the X3100 can't handle it, this simply isn't true. My old MacBook (GMA950, LESS powerful than the X3100) ran GW at about 45fps. My brother's MacBook (2ghz C2D, 1gb RAM, GMA950) can sit right next to my laptop (again 2ghz, 3gb, X3100) and run at 45fps while mine runs at 15fps. The only difference is his (and my old Macbook) has/had Windows XP, and the IdeaPad has Vista; even the screen resolution (1280x800) and in-game settings are identical.
This has pretty much forced me to stop playing because it's so annoying. If anyone has any input I would really appreciate it.

Crimson Flame · Sep 22, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10323347

Moriz worked on increasing an X3100's playing capacity in that thread. It takes a third-party program, but it works. As a general rule, though, Vista is somewhat of a hog on an integrated graphics processor; if you can install XP on your laptop it should bump up the performance.

Quaker · Sep 22, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Have you tried knocking back some of the graphics settings in GW? AA would be a good place to start.

At any rate, the X3100 is a step up, but Intel on-board graphics still basically suck.

moriz · Sep 22, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Flame

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10323347

Moriz worked on increasing an X3100's playing capacity in that thread. It takes a third-party program, but it works. As a general rule, though, Vista is somewhat of a hog on an integrated graphics processor; if you can install XP on your laptop it should bump up the performance.

note: X3100 != 3100. even though the two chips have similar names, they are NOT the same. the tweak i posted won't have any effect for the X3100 (or it will actually decrease performance).

the GMA3100 is similar to a GMA950 or GMA915. they are all SM2.0 chips without hardware TnL. the GMA X3100 is a SM4.0 chip, and does support hardware TnL (though the support is incomplete/insufficient). as a result, the GMA X3100 is substantially faster than the GMA 3100.

the problem you are having is caused by vista. vista uses a new graphic driver model than windows XP, and has the unfortunate result of making intel GMAs virtually unusable. as far as i know, there's no way to get around this except by installing XP.

Crimson Flame · Sep 22, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

note: X3100 != 3100. even though the two chips have similar names, they are NOT the same. the tweak i posted won't have any effect for the X3100 (or it will actually decrease performance).

the GMA3100 is similar to a GMA950 or GMA915. they are all SM2.0 chips without hardware TnL. the GMA X3100 is a SM4.0 chip, and does support hardware TnL (though the support is incomplete/insufficient). as a result, the GMA X3100 is substantially faster than the GMA 3100.

the problem you are having is caused by vista. vista uses a new graphic driver model than windows XP, and has the unfortunate result of making intel GMAs virtually unusable. as far as i know, there's no way to get around this except by installing XP.

My bad, I thought it was an X3100 you were messing with. Guess I should've checked the post before I linked to it.

astro reaping · Sep 22, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

um using amd 2.2 with gforce fx 8400gt
my fps varies 45 - 80 on 10meg cable

Crimson Flame · Sep 22, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by astro reaping

um using amd 2.2 with gforce fx 8400gt
my fps varies 45 - 80 on 10meg cable

And this offers what to the discussion, exactly? You're using a different graphics card.

astro reaping · Sep 22, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

well it offers a comparison between what hes using
and what im using..mearly pointing that with
my amd chip and fx card things seem ok..

ps sorry to tread on your toes oh great 1

Lord Sojar · Sep 23, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Oh goodness... let's not bicker.

Astro, your hardware is semi comparable, but at the same time, very different. nVidia and ATi use drastically different designs and drivers.

I really am beginning to suspect Guild Wars has an issue with some systems using Vista. Again, I have an issue where my FPS drops to below 20 (sometimes sinking as low as 4) if I max out all settings and turn on 4x AA and Post Processing. Oddly enough, this happened only after my Vista install (Vista 32bit), while on XP, everything was fine. I run dual 7900GTs in SLi on a 780i custom doped and spun chipset. A few others have reported very similar issues, primarily occurring AFTER they minimize or change settings in the graphics menu.

Daenara · Sep 23, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

My husband and I have identical hardware. The only difference that we have is that he is running Vista and I am running XP. I can run it in max settings, and force it to 16x antistropic filtering and 8x antialiasing in my nvidia control panel, and it runs at 60fps.
He, (the poor fella) has to his antialiasing turned off, and graphics settings turned fairly low to get it to run at 30-40fps.

In summary? Vista sucks balls.

Lady Lozza · Sep 23, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Sorry to hijack the thread but this is slightly alarming. I've not seen Vista running on a gaming rig so I had no idea there were issues, but since service pack 1, Vista on the machines I've worked with has been running rather well.

Rahja,
Out of curiosity do you know which chipsets seem to be affected by this. I was going to buy a new laptop soon. Since it can be as much as $100 to get an XP install (and get no disk or key - don't ask me why you don't get the code might be a regional thing *shakes head*), I was just going to roll with Vista.

Even though I game primarily on my desktop (XP) - there are times I pull the laptop into the lounge room and curl up in a comfy armchair with the TV on. Since I was primarily buying the laptop for decent graphical performance (for work relating things) I wouldn't mind knowing ahead of time whether there are likely to be issues so I can avoid them. I need the high FPS in both gaming and 3D environments to avoid exciting existing medical conditions

Snograt · Sep 23, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Are you talking epilepsy or similar? If so, the refresh rate on a TFT is irrelevant - flickering only occurs on CRT monitors with low refresh rates. You should worry more about the creatures ANet still haven't fixed that flash red when attacked. Avoid trapping them

Er, or this entire discussion could be totally irrelevant...

Lady Lozza · Sep 24, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

The jerky jumping action that occurs when the frames gets low enough can potentially be a problem. I've had this problem before when using CAD. The frames would drop and I'd be exposed to the model rotating in jumps and jerks. When the frames get low enough in game this happens too. Both yourself and the scenery jumps back and forth without transition - this is enough to trigger a seizure, though thankfully I have never (and probably will never) suffer from "gran mal".

Though I'm not technically photosensitive, consistant exposure to changes in lighting conditions (it's not just flashing lights) can and has caused seizures - it is capable of causing seizures in someone who does not have epilepsy.

To put it in perpective, it took 3 days of work (jerky CAD) to do so. However given that I game and use CAD at home I'd rather not take the chance of exciting my poor photoreceptors too much.

This is a little off-topic but this is why this report of odd drop in FPS in Vista concerns me. If I buy a laptop with Vista on it and experience exactly the same problem it does (if exposed to if for long enough) have the potential to put me off work for a couple of days. Something I'd rather avoid.

Snograt · Sep 24, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Well, you learn something new every day on Guru - my apologies, Loz; I was only aware of photo-sensitive epilepsy

Elder III · Sep 24, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

To summarize:

With Vista one should generally be prepared to shell out a significant increase in $$$ for hardware to get the same performance that one could get with lesser hardware while using XP - So, unless you have a High End machine (still may have some trouble there too) or are totally addicted to DX10, I suggest avoiding Vista for gaming purposes if possible.

Best Option for those with a little spare jingle? Get a Mobo that supports dual systems and run XP & Linux (oops was I supposed to say "& Vista"???)

*insert lolcatz*

moriz · Sep 24, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

and yet at the same time, i've tried both vista and XP on my laptop, and there's no difference in FPS. as a matter of fact, vista was faster in some cases.

specs:
intel core 2 duo T5450 1.66ghz
2gb DDR2 677 ram
nvidia geforce 8400M GS

if anything, i believe the problem is caused by compatibility/driver problems, and not inherently vista's problem.

Brianna · Sep 24, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

and yet at the same time, i've tried both vista and XP on my laptop, and there's no difference in FPS. as a matter of fact, vista was faster in some cases.

specs:
intel core 2 duo T5450 1.66ghz
2gb DDR2 677 ram
nvidia geforce 8400M GS

if anything, i believe the problem is caused by compatibility/driver problems, and not inherently vista's problem.

Agreed. I have Vista Ultimate 64-bit SP1 and Windows XP Pro SP2 and I have virtually no difference in performance, like moriz said, in some cases my Guild Wars was faster on Vista than XP.