Curse

mrvrod · Feb 07, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

This is the letter I submitted to PlayNC.com. If I receive a working solution I will post it here for anyone who might still have the problem. Thanks again to all who have given me help and advice!

I have the following pc:
cpu: Intel Q6850 Core 2 extreme
ram: 4 x 1gb Corsair (4gb total ram)
Video: 2 x nVidia 9800gtx (in SLI mode)
mobo: XFX nForce 790i ultra sli
PSU: 1kW PC Power & Cooling
OS: Vista Ultimate 64 w/service pack 1
Case: Cooler Master Cosmos w/6 case fans

Since building this pc 1 year ago, I have had problems with Guild Wars crashing my pc. The crashes have changed over the year (flashing screen, stuttering sound; blue, green, black, brown screens; crash back to windows before screen goes black and still needs a reboot). I've had some success when updating the video drivers, then no crashes until next GW update. After the update, I'm back to crashing.

With the geforce 181 driver update, GW began crashing every time within 20 minutes of play. I finally wiped my entire system and reinstalled Vista. I only used the hardware drivers that were offered on the windows update site. After installing GW, I played for 7 hours straight, and was able to play like this for a full week!

Then I logged in on 2/6/09, the day after your thursday update, and I'm back to crashing every 20 minutes or less!

I changed NOTHING on my pc, I installed NOTHING else on my pc, it was playing fine after my Vista reinstall, then with the 2/5/09 update, nothing but crashes.

PLEASE!!! Any other information you need, ask and I will give it. Just help me get the only game I really care about running again!!!!

mrvrod · Feb 09, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Hello William,

Thank you for your patience.

Let's try updating your video drivers to the 178.24s available. We've received reports of GeForce SLI configurations becoming unstable on any but the latest 178-series of video drivers. Granted, these reports haven't been for Guild Wars but it would appear that your experience is showing similar (if not identical) symptoms. First, though, we're going to have you completely clean the current video drivers from the system before reinstalling the new ones (to prevent driver corruption). Please do the following:

1. Go here and download the Driver Sweeper program: http://downloads.guru3d.com/Guru3D--....html#download

2. Click the "Download (Europe)" link (bottom of the page).

3. Click "I Agree" on the next page and save the file to your desktop.

4. Go here for the new video drivers: http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvist...8.24_whql.html

5. Save that file to your desktop.

-Since you're using Windows Vista (any version), go to Start > Control Panel > Programs > Uninstall a Program, then select (display drivers) and click "Uninstall/Change."

6. When the current drivers are uninstalled please restart the PC.

7. When you're back at the Windows desktop, please install and launch the Driver Sweeper program.

8. In the opening window, place a checkmark next to "Nvidia - Display" and then click "Clean."

9. Restart the PC.

10. Run the driver setup file (downloaded in Step 4) and allow those drivers to be installed.

11. Restart the PC one last time.

At this point, go ahead and run the game client again. Let us know if the issue persists.

Regards,
Mike C.
Guild Wars Technical Support

mrvrod · Feb 09, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

So far I've been playing for close to 1 1/2 hours without a crash. I am not yet ready to say it's fixed though until I survive at least 1 GW update without the problem returning.

mrvrod · Feb 12, 2009, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Logged in on 2/10/09, made at least a dozen attempts to play, crashed each time within 20 minutes. So I updated my ticket and will wait to see what else they might come up with.

If anybody else is still having these problems, please let me know. I don't want to keep posting my journey here if noone is dealing with this issue.

Lord Sojar · Feb 12, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

It is sounding more and more like either Power supply load issues or defective memory. I can't tell without actually physically testing your PC.

mrvrod · Feb 12, 2009, 06:40 AM // 06:40

The video cards and ram appear to be good, at least with load testing software. How can I test the power supply? It's a 1kw supply so there should be more than enough juice.

Oh, and I was mistaken about the psu, I saved a few bucks by going with the Antec true power quattro 1000, it's a four rail psu which according to PC Power and Cooling is a gimmick and one rail is better. I don't know if thats just sales talk, but I do believe they make the best product on the market.

I started GW at 3am and am still running it now, so this intermittent problem is becoming very frustrating!

Also I ran a homegrown video card tester from these folks: http://freestone-group.com/ called simply 'Video Card Stability Test' and my cards passed. However when I ran the benchmark test, the screen greyed out like it does in GW. According to their faq, a pc reboots during the test because of a) overheated cpu or b) faulty psu.

What is confusing though is that my system doesn't reboot. I can hear the game in the background, I can three finger salute my pc and hear that the game has been minimized and am assuming Task Manager is up, I just can't see anything on my screen.

The good Ghost · Feb 12, 2009, 12:33 PM // 12:33

I cant stand it any longer *sigh*
I begged someone to post the solution in here but appearently he didn`t, so I registered my self solely for you

Well there IS a solution for that problem, i created it since i had the same problem as well (as most of the 9800gtx+ users have).

What you need to know:
The Problem is GW only.
The Problem is Areaspecific. There are areas you can run around endlessly, and there are areas that caus instant crashes or crashes after some time.
If you want to crash the PC: Go center of Kaineng and run around -> BAM
Go Shiros Palace: BAM.
stand still: might work.

There are two ways to circumvent the crash: Either go windowmode and draw the window to a 100*100px resolution (Funny but not practicable).

Other way: Undercolock your two cards. GW comes to over 80FPS even when clocked down to a minimum on a SINGLE Card.

You must figure out how to do it your self, and learn about the risks of doing it.

I dont take any responibility for occuring hardwaredamage.
Make sure to not turn off the cooling by accident when underclocking.
Monitor your system the first times running underclocked and pull the plug if something seems weired.
Read a little around for knowing what you are doing there anyway.

The tools you will need are all packaged by nVIDIA in a toolset called systemtools.
You can even create Rules that only when GW is running your card underclocks itself.
Clockrates working fine for my single Card (may vary if you have another vendor):
core:600
memory:1000
Shader:1488

If it works build myself a shrine, give my dozens Platinum and worship my feet

Just kidding. But my ego would very much appreciate it if you do it successfully if you might post feedback.

Thanks and good luck.

Addendum: I wrote just a rough guide since my knowlede of overclocking is very limited. i saw in another thread you seem to know something about it, so it might be helpfull if you could write a few lines what this circumvent does, i just tought myself the very basics to get gw running

mrvrod · Feb 13, 2009, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by The good Ghost

If it works build myself a shrine, give my dozens Platinum and worship my feet

Just kidding. But my ego would very much appreciate it if you do it successfully if you might post feedback.

Thanks and good luck.

Well, I'm almost out of platinum, but where do you want that shrine?

Thanks a lot, it worked. By manually setting the fan speed on both cards to 60% (a sound volume I can easily tolerate) I was able to get the core to 680 and the mem to 1080 and still be rock solid stable.

Since underclocking the cards was the solution. The problem is that the cards are overheating. With your solution, my cards are running at an acceptable 60c at full load.

It surprises me that with 7 case fans in a HUGE Cosmos case that they were running too hot, but they are huge cards and there's NO space between them so...

Thanks again!!! You ARE my hero!

mrvrod · Feb 13, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

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Kira's Shrine...

Gneppe · Feb 13, 2009, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Would this fix my problem aswell even though i dont have 2 Nvidia Geforce 9800GTX+, or is this a SLI problem only?.
As it is now im still playing on my 7600GT, since my monitor keeps crashing as soon as i start GW (and other games but other games only crash after hours of playtime) with my 9800GTX+.

The good Ghost · Feb 13, 2009, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Hehehe thanks for the Shrine, hope you didn`t build it too early and it keeps stable *grin* Veeery Sweet

@Gneppe:

This fix *should* work for all GW related problems on 9800gtx+ wether SLI or not with following symptoma or equivalents: Monitor turns Black, Cpu doesn`t respond, maybe a "no signal detected" turns up.
Most Probable Reason: GW produces "Energyspikes" in the Card, higher energyspikes then your PSU can deliver, and the card shuts down. Thats GW inherent since no other game does that to THAT degree.
That occurs even for those for whom it is NOT a temperature Problem (mine runs never over 45°Celsius).

IF this turns up in other Games it might be a temperatureproblem/Energyproblem combination.

Get following free tools:
GPU-Z. (nifty little Monitoringtool, very comprehensive)
Run it to monitor the temperature of your card closely while running any game, and look wether the card gets hot or not.
If i does try thinking about a better coolingsystem or underclocking.

For GW:
Nvidia Systemtools for underclocking as described above.
Either it works or not, but chances are good it does.

Addendum: The GW Updatelog states they fixed a "crashbug" tonight...
very eloquent

maybe it has been that one and we can all play happily ever after now without performing tricks

LucidSnake · Feb 24, 2009, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Yes people having to under clock their video card for GW probably don't have an adequate power supply.

Read this entire forum: it doesn't matter if your PSU is 1KW if it's not designed properly (if it has multiple rails with poor balancing) then you will have problems with high end graphics cards.

EDIT: On a side note, under clocking is a good temporary solution until you get a better designed PSU.

Lord Sojar · Feb 24, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Underclocking the card proves only a few things:

1: The card is defective.
2: The PCIe slot is defective.
3: The PCIe bus isn't receiving enough power
4: The power supply is underpowering the card (due to a defect)

So, yes... while the solution might work, you shouldn't have to underclock a card to function.

This is not a widespread issue, and it isn't in our database for known issues. This is a specific problem with your setup. Finding solutions to problems this vague and large is often difficult.

I am sticking with my hunch that it is power related. Try raising the voltage to the PCIe BUS.

Gneppe · Feb 28, 2009, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Hi again.
So the fix actually worked the first time, i was able to play Guild Wars and GvG 2 times on Druid Isle. The next day (after shutting down the computer) i wanted to play Guild Wars again, and as soon as i loaded in on Druid Isle and Isle of Meditation i started crashing.
I dont know what caused it to work the first time and not to the second time.
I'm sure i had the profile saved and made it load upon Windows boot, but apparently it still crashes:S
I'm now back to playing with my 7600GT, and the FPS lag which happens (because its an old card) is killing me:S

Pinkest One · Feb 28, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Sounds like you need to optimize your PC Gneppe, I run GW with the same card(7600gt OC) and i assume my processor is weaker than yours too(AMD 2200+ @2.0ghz). I can swing my camera around in Kamadan d1 and not get under 25FPS at 1280x1024 2xAA all the eye candy and the high def mod.

Digging through your post history it appears you run Windows XP,id look into some tweaks.
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/supertweaks.htm