Curse

Snograt · Oct 12, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Use this one, GWML, Touch of Grenth.

Running two GW clients using any method will be putting a bit of a strain on that lappy - should be fine, assuming it has the onboard nVidia graphics (searching Gateway FX wasn't too helpful ^_^)

This app is almost idiot-proof. After running it for the first time, you may never need to look at it again. The program can create shortcuts to all of your GW executables enabling you to run any client individually or in any combination.

Touch_Of_Grenth · Oct 13, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

ok the multi launcher is sweet... but one problem.. i use vent and well as long as i am not on the gw window i can speak in vent but as soon as i have the window open ... i can hear the others in vent but no matter how many times i press shift .. i cannot speak in vent .. is this a normal problem, or is there any way around it tyvm

-Touch

imkey · Oct 13, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

The solution to that issue is detailed under Notes->External hot keys notes
in the first post.

Basically, Windows Vista/7 will not let applications ran at a lower privilege than guild wars intercept keys (for security purposes). run vent as admin or gw/gwml not as admin to get around this issue.

I will add this to the readme for final v0.6 release. On another note.. any bugs/suggestion for final 0.6. Can't justify release if nothing being changed.

Touch_Of_Grenth · Oct 14, 2009, 05:44 AM // 05:44

thats weird.. i have always used guildwars and vent at the some time... no admin or non admin change ok well tyvm for the info ill try using vent as admin.... i cant not use admin on my gwml due to that fact it will not work on both otherwise

thanks a ton

-touch

Chico · Oct 20, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I got an account permanently terminated for using multilaunch. Be careful so you don't end up getting accounts terminated in the same way.

Kattar · Oct 20, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico

Ok... so I can't post anything *but* the warning.
I got an account permanently terminated for using multilaunch. Be careful so you don't end up getting accounts terminated in the same way.

You don't have any proof you were banned because of this program. If it were because of this program, many, many more people would be effected.

You have no evidence of anything. That's why your posts were deleted.

Chico · Oct 20, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

You don't have any proof you were banned because of this program. If it were because of this program, many, many more people would be effected.

You have no evidence of anything. That's why your posts were deleted.

This is what I got from support:

Quote:

Response (GM Lxxxxxxxxa) 10/20/2009 10:51 AM
Hello,

Your Guild Wars Account has been closed for using an illegal third party program. We want you to know that we use great care when analyzing accounts prior to termination. We are both diligent and conservative in determining which accounts are using these programs, and we only take action after we are able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that such use has occurred.

Only thing running was Gguild Wars and multi launch. By deduction, the 3rd party program they are talking about is multilaunch.

Delete this message if you want, but what they saw me using is multilaunch and that got me banned. I'm just waiting for their response to the screenshot. Just leave the warning. This application is what got me permabanned.

Kattar · Oct 20, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Only thing running was Gguild Wars and multi launch. By deduction, the 3rd party program they are talking about is multilaunch.

They've made mistakes banning people for botting before. There's no proof you can post saying you weren't running something else in the background. Screenshots or otherwise.

The bottom line: there has been no rash of bans because of people using this program so you can't assume it's just this program that's doing it. Please refrain from posting anymore "warnings."

poppu16 · Oct 20, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Used multi-launch on 2 accounts the past 3 RR days, no ban (4hours per day).

Chico · Oct 20, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppu16

Used multi-launch on 2 accounts the past 3 RR days, no ban (4hours per day).

I know, that is exactly what I did and this was my first time, just heard about RR last week. Just be careful, don't be too fast, and don't over do it (5 1/2 hrs mark when they banned me).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

They've made mistakes banning people for botting before. There's no proof you can post saying you weren't running something else in the background. Screenshots or otherwise.

The bottom line: there has been no rash of bans because of people using this program so you can't assume it's just this program that's doing it. Please refrain from posting anymore "warnings."

I know there's no rash but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Usage of ML can be, and has been, detected as using BOTS.
Be careful.
The end.

Snograt · Oct 20, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

We're smack-bang into the definition of "grey area" here.

The UA pertaining to usage of third party applications is not totally clear, but it's generally interpreted thusly:

Usage of thired-party applications may lead to a ban if that usage gains you an unfair advantage.

Using GWML to transfer stuff from mules: fine.

Using GWML to run account #1's characters by an account #2 character: grey area; probably ok.

Using GWML to have two or more accounts throwing matches in HB simultaneously: that's a paddlin'

imkey · Oct 21, 2009, 02:04 AM // 02:04

This is part of the reason I kept the source open. If you want to check out the source. GWML does not load into gw's memory or does it even need to stay open in background.

GWML does not latch on to gw in anyway or stay loaded in memory. It does not modify the gw.exe like some other launchers. All it does when you invoke it to launch gw is close a mutant handle in all running gw.exe processes before setting reg path, launching gw, and closing itself.

In other words, it does what you can manually do with process explorer (sysinternal/microsft tool) and regedit before closing itself.

I highly doubt gwml is the reason for your ban since the application itself isn't open if u use the special shortcut to launch gw and if you use the launcher, it doesn't need to be open.

Even very intrusive detectors scanning the entire system memory stack would not find trace of gwml simply because it doesn't need to be open in background. I am betting gw.exe's anti-hack/bot detection code only scans (checksums) in certain parts of its own memory. In gw.exe's memory, the only difference is that the mutant handle (flag for other gw.exe check to see if multiple copies are open) is not open.

Snograt · Oct 21, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

That's pretty much what I was trying to say, imkey. I think there is a good chance that this ban was for running multiple accounts for an unfair advantage, i.e. the method used to run the accounts is irrelevant.

Fril Estelin · Oct 21, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

imkey, what exact compiler/IDE do you use? If someone has it, we can reproduce the same executable from 2 different places, thus increasing the confidence that your exe is indeed trustworthy. (I already recompiled your source, but obviously with a different compiler, possibly different compilation parameters, thus obtained a different exe, but it worked like the one you offer on download)

I'm saying this because I remember reading someone recently on Guru asking the question.

I could also say that GWML passes the tests of my Kaspersky application control (which shows what the application is trying to do), but well then you'd have to trust me

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Just a little update on this.

Gaile apparently reviewed Chico's case and although she's not explicitly saying it, she seems to be under the impression that he botted RR day. Apparently, support has 20 rubrics for bots and Chico fell under the majority of them (including only speaking 1 line of text repeatedly).

I don't want to draw any conclusions since Gaile was not blunt, but it appears this is a case of botting and not a case of GWML causing him to get "mistakenly" caught for botting.

Here's the link to the convo: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...unt_Terminated

Chico · Oct 21, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Fred:

The message I got was "Third party application detected".
The only thing running was GWML.
Now they've admitted they didn't detect any process or anything like that. They detected what they claim is bot behavior when I was playing on RRday.

I guess GWML is safe. But Anets messages suggests that a third party application is what got me banned. Then that third party application is really a log analysis that claims I'm a bot.

Ruling is that it was not GWML and it was not RRday (not directly, at least) what got me banned. What got me perma-banned was "looking like a bot". Who doesn't look like a bot when playing RRday. The whole RRDay is repetitive and mechanical with cycles of like 10 to 15 minutes per key but that subject is best kept in its own thread.

imkey · Oct 21, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

For reference,

I compile with Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 Team Suite (SP1 I think..)
v8.0.50727.762 (SP.050727-7600)

For 32-bit build, I use "Release" and "x86"
For 64-bit build, I use "Release" and "x64" and "#define BUILD32" is commented out inside MainForm.cs

I'm not exactly sure what else Microsoft's compiler uses to generate the final exe. It may even add in a system unique key.

Give the binary diff. between my exe and yours a go at it if you want. There should be minimal to no differences if the VS2005 sp1 compiler is used.

If anyone is really paranoid, I believe you can download the Visual Studio C# express edition for free, get the source, and compile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

imkey, what exact compiler/IDE do you use? If someone has it, we can reproduce the same executable from 2 different places, thus increasing the confidence that your exe is indeed trustworthy. (I already recompiled your source, but obviously with a different compiler, possibly different compilation parameters, thus obtained a different exe, but it worked like the one you offer on download)

I'm saying this because I remember reading someone recently on Guru asking the question.

I could also say that GWML passes the tests of my Kaspersky application control (which shows what the application is trying to do), but well then you'd have to trust me

Rhiana Reborn · Oct 23, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Well, they saw 5 1/2 hours of doing the same thing, over and over, and speaking only one line of text on TWO accounts as botting. It doesn't matter to them what you were using to be in two places at once - you weren't chatting to your guildies or people in outpost, just acting like a robot. And you know the saying... looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck...

Perhaps this should serve as a warning to people - if you're gonna use two accounts for RR day (not that is matters now, but similar things can be done) make sure to at least chat from time to time.

And now that's over, for my own problem.

GWML kills my router. xD After 5-10 minutes of play, I get dc-ed and the router stops working for all computers in the house. Also, only one GW would start unless I used "kill Mutex" Using Win7 7100, router is an older Edimax model.

If I connect straight from the modem I have no problems, but with 4 computers in the house, two of which are needed for work/school, I can't do that.

I resigned myself to stop using it, but I thought you should be made aware

Fril Estelin · Oct 23, 2009, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by imkey

If anyone is really paranoid, I believe you can download the Visual Studio C# express edition for free, get the source, and compile.

Just for clarity: it's not about being paranoid, it's about "trust". Your work is really great, but given the security ambience these days (not only in GW), people will feel safer with a project that's been checked by independent and trustworthy sources.

I'll try to look at it whenever I can. Ty imkey.

Rhiana Reborn: could be a problem with your router settings? Max number of connections? Speed/amount of traffic caps? (safe advice: did you update your router firmware?)

Rhiana Reborn · Oct 23, 2009, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Never updated the router firmware. Router is left to all default aside from several open ports for vent and the like. Never had issues with GW, not even when using GWx2, which is why I think its a matter of GWML doing something my router can't handle.

Max number of connections... no idea, tbh. Got three other computers linked through the router, only mine was active online at the time.

Edit: and I have broadband, unlimited traffic (or at least, the cap is higher than 100Gb).