Curse

MisterB · Feb 01, 2012, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Skip to last paragraph for question(s); explanation follows.

I have recently had some minor to major graphics driver issues after attempting to upgrade to the latest version(s). Troubleshooting seems to point to hot swapping the HDMI as one of the sources of the problem, as custom resolutions(required due to overscan of display) would immediately fail, and GW and other games would no longer display in full screen mode.

To resolve this, I rolled back the driver to a version from 2009 that actually works, and now I have Guild Wars in full screen again. None of AMD's drivers from 2011 or later work, and there may be a version from 2010, but I'm reluctant to test. My graphics card is an ATI HD 3650 AGP, and it only runs using ATI/AMD AGP hotfix drivers.

I have a non-standard configuration: my PC is a HTPC connected to a Sony CRT tube HDTV and a receiver powering a surround sound system. Model number of the HDTV is KV-30HS420, if that is relevant. I don't think the connector on the HDTV nor the cable are faulty, as both are working for other equipment.

HDMI spec seems to allow for hot swapping, but lol HDMI. I suspect it may be an HDCP(Herp Derp Crappy Protocol) issue, or the driver fails to update EDID from the HDTV, or the HDTV is incorrectly identifying after a hot swap. I don't really know. My PS3 is also connected to the same HDMI port, and I used to hot swap between the PS3 and the HTPC. Neither my PS3 nor the HDTV have any display problems when used this way; only the HTPC's AMD driver fails. I strongly dislike the HDMI standard. It's consumer unfriendly, and poorly designed from a technical transmission standpoint.

My question is does HDMI actually allow hot swapping, or should I just avoid it from now on? Do ATI/AMD graphics drivers allow for it? Is there a way to force custom resolutions, or can I add a different dummy monitor model that Windows and the driver will display custom resolutions for? I know about Powerstrip, but I'd rather not mess with it. I will probably switch to component output using an adapter, simply because my system also includes a component video switch, and component video switches just fine. I prefer HDMI since there is no display before Windows loads over component, and HDMI avoids a DAC.

KZaske · Feb 02, 2012, 08:02 AM // 08:02

I would avoid it at all costs. I have never heard anyone say that hot swaping was a feature of HDMI.

MisterB · Feb 02, 2012, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZaske

I would avoid it at all costs. I have never heard anyone say that hot swaping was a feature of HDMI.

HDMI is designed to hot swap.* In practice, I've read reports of fried connectors, so I think I'll stop. I have little confidence in the format as it is. I should not have believed the design spec in this instance.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI Read general specifications and pin out windows, pin 19.
* http://www.hdmi.org/installers/insidehdmicable.aspx

See pin 19. I can find more sources if you like.

I still don't understand how hot swapping would remove my graphics driver's ability to display custom resolutions. In any case, I have the component adapter ordered, so I will solve the problem by avoiding the HDMI connection except when I need to see the boot, and by never updating the driver.

Quaker · Feb 02, 2012, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Troubleshooting seems to point to hot swapping the HDMI as one of the sources of the problem, as custom resolutions(required due to overscan of display) would immediately fail, and GW and other games would no longer display in full screen mode.

There is a setting for this in the ATI/AMD Catalyst Control Center. The big problem is it's hard to find - so hard to find it would be simplest to search the forums...... 1 sec ....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/q...t=hdmi+setting

So, I'd advise re-installing the latest AMD drivers and digging through the CCC to find the settings. Hope this helps.

P.S. I wasn't aware that HDMI is hot-swap-able, but doing so shouldn't result in damaged connectors unless there is a hardware fault or you are really ham-fisted.

MisterB · Feb 02, 2012, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

There is a setting for this in the ATI/AMD Catalyst Control Center. The big problem is it's hard to find - so hard to find it would be simplest to search the forums...... 1 sec ....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/q...t=hdmi+setting

So, I'd advise re-installing the latest AMD drivers and digging through the CCC to find the settings. Hope this helps.

P.S. I wasn't aware that HDMI is hot-swap-able, but doing so shouldn't result in damaged connectors unless there is a hardware fault or you are really ham-fisted.

I don't understand the instructions or the settings in that linked thread. Do I have to change from default scaling to GPU scaling and then do manual entry? Is there more information available for the GPU scaling functions of Catalyst? What I would really like is an explanation of Catalyst settings aside from the explanations in the program itself or its help files.

Catalyst has a separate tab for HDTV support, which is where I was attempting to enable the custom resolutions. This worked somewhat; initially custom resolutions in newer driver versions worked for the desktop, but never for games. Hot swapping HDMI removed all custom resolution display support unless I reinstalled the driver. Catalyst settings repeatedly failed after HDMI hot swap.

I'm really reluctant to try all of that again. I do not even have Catalyst installed at the moment. My original goal in attempting to update drivers was to see if OpenGL performance was improved at all in later versions, because: Minecraft.

Found this: http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...nSettings.aspx

Currently installed driver predates this version.

Latest tested version was 11.12, and 12.1 is now available.

P.S. Yes, I suspect hardware faults or repeated plug/unplug(abuse) for those reports of fried components. I really need to stop hot swapping or repeatedly plugging the PC and PS3 into my single HDMI port.

Edit: I read that link again. New hypothesis: Sony does not report EDID, or reports incorrectly, or driver error, or whatever. Sony does like to print in their manuals that PC display is not supported on this and other HDTVs in this generation, so maybe that's part of the problem. So GPU scaling options, which I've not tried, may be able to allow me to force the driver to enable required resolutions.

KZaske · Feb 03, 2012, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

HDMI is designed to hot swap.* In practice, I've read reports of fried connectors, so I think I'll stop. I have little confidence in the format as it is. I should not have believed the design spec in this instance.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI Read general specifications and pin out windows, pin 19.
* http://www.hdmi.org/installers/insidehdmicable.aspx

See pin 19. I can find more sources if you like.

I still don't understand how hot swapping would remove my graphics driver's ability to display custom resolutions. In any case, I have the component adapter ordered, so I will solve the problem by avoiding the HDMI connection except when I need to see the boot, and by never updating the driver.

Interesting reads, thank you. As I said before, I have never read anything about HDMI stating that you could hot swap it. I admit that I had not read the specification, but it being in the specification does not mean it's actually supported by the TV or the PS3/Video Card. I have never seen hot swapping as an advertiesed feature of HDMI. Everything that I had read upto now has always stated not to hot swap any video connection including HDMI.
Very interesting TV by the way, same model my aunt had, she was always complaining about it. From the introductin date posted by sony and the dates published for the various versions of HDMI, it looks like it supports only HDMI 1.0, if that makes a difference.
Hot Swapping is part of the SATA specification too, but very few drives or motherboards actually support it.

MisterB · Feb 03, 2012, 09:07 PM // 21:07

There are too many potential problems with hot swapping in this fashion, plus it's just inconvenient. Once the adapter arrives, I'll switch this PC back to component video, and then I can use the component switch and the video input on the TV to switch. I'll wait until then to try upgrading the driver using the options Quaker pointed out.

I've had my share of troubles with this and another Trinitron HDTV, so I would hesitate to recommend them. I really like their picture quality, but I've had to repair both of them, and I've also modified the service menu on them both. I want consumer HDTV technology to progress past plasma and LCD already.

Tarun · Feb 07, 2012, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Several sites I've seen say to just avoid hot swapping HDMI.

Unless you have a need for HDMI and don't need to hot-swap, just use DVI. You'll get the same picture quality.

MisterB · Feb 07, 2012, 08:17 PM // 20:17

I've come to the same conclusion about hot swapping HDMI; I intend to avoid it in the future. My display device has a single HDMI port, and my graphics card has 2 DVI outputs, so I use a DVI to HDMI cable. I only need to use the DVI/HDMI output to view POST and boot operations, and hot swapping isn't needed for that function.

I have not resolved the issue of enabling custom display resolutions in newer drivers, as I'm still waiting on the component adapter before I mess with trying to upgrade again.