Mesmer Henchman - Guild Wars Forums

Avatin · Mar 01, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Will I be able to pick up a Mesmer Henchman in the final release of the game? Maybe next Beta weekend?

Kiwi · Mar 01, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Hmmm... it's imposible to say what ArenaNet will do. If I was a staff member, I'd tell you...

Deadroot · Mar 01, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I wouldn't think so, it seems like the henchie classes have already been finalized. But as Kiwi said, you never know.

Kiwi · Mar 01, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27

I thank you, someone agrees! Exscuse me while I have a celebration with my brother...

Cicciro · Mar 01, 2005, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Personally, I think they should remove henchmen from PvP.

Dreamsmith · Mar 01, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicciro

Personally, I think they should remove henchmen from PvP.

Why? (10 characters.)

Cicciro · Mar 01, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Because PvP is about competition, especially in the Tombs and GvG. Why allow a team to steamroll another because they have henchmen? Detail the PvP more and tell people that when they don't have a group, they can go play the arena.

Dreamsmith · Mar 01, 2005, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicciro

Because PvP is about competition, especially in the Tombs and GvG. Why allow a team to steamroll another because they have henchmen? Detail the PvP more and tell people that when they don't have a group, they can go play the arena.

Why allow a team to steamroll another because they have bad builds? Why allow a team to streamroll another because they have no coordination?

None of these questions (yours or mine) make much sense to me. The real question would be, why not? You don't have to justify allowing people to do something -- you have to justify restricting people from doing something. Unless you prefer totalitarianism, the burden of proof lies on providing very good reasons for disallowing things, not on allowing them. "Allow" should be the default if "deny" can't be proven beyond reasonable question. Absent any great harm being caused by this, I see no reason to disallow it.

Nova · Mar 01, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Wow, this is a good argument.. hehehe.. interesting.... HAHA!

Just one question... whats a henchmen.... o.O

Ensign · Mar 01, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43

I'm not going to say that they need to remove byes from Tombs and GvG, but they need to at least put an 8 character minimum on new teams. The 5 man, 1 player teams are a joke and just waste everyone's time.

Peace,
-CxE

Cicciro · Mar 01, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Just let them figure out that they need to organize a team. In the tombs or GvG these people have a lot better chance if they organize a full team, and by a lot better, I mean a grand increase in their chances. For the tombs it is not hard to form a pick-up group, and in GvG you should be forced to have a full eight man team anyway. Its how Player vs Player works.

Remember, PvP is not a newbie friendly environment, having those henchmen really just gets people laughed at, scorned and belittled. Will they want to PvP again when Guild Asshole decides to /dance while killing this man and his team of NPC's? Doesn't that ruin their fun?

NPC's don't belong in PvP in the core group. Why should henchmen be restricted in PvP? It promotes team work and coordination, two essential aspects of PvP (save dueling). This way they learn, this way they improve, this way they are actually participating.

Nova · Mar 01, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Hmm.... makes sence I think... I will have to play the game to find out. I hope I can learn everything quickly.

Cicciro · Mar 01, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Basics aren't to hard, and I'd offer to help out next weekend, but I probably won't be there. Once you start memerizing skills and number crunching it's a little harder, but you get that down as well.

Greentongue · Mar 01, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Once there is a 4 person flavor of "Tombs" and the different layouts are mapped, I suspect you will see fewer Henchmen filled teams.

Currently it is quite a pain to gather a team of 8. Even trying to get into (P)ick (U)p (G)roups so you can get a feeling for the maps and play style can take longer than most games last.

Some professions are hard to get picked. If you didn't already bring your Guild Buddies, you can spend a LOT of time waiting to play.

Avatin · Mar 01, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

For those who don't know it, henchmen are Players controlled by the computer you can actually hire for free.

I was not really thinking about PvP while asking my question about the future inclusion of Mesmer henchmen, but to explorable areas and PvE missions. I heard somewhere (while playing during last event) they are too much complex to be added to the game. Is that true?

Cicciro · Mar 01, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Doubtful that they are too complex... just they aren't really your basic archetype. They could be added, but I really don't see any reason for the developers to script AI for a basic Mesmer setting for henchmen, as well as Necromancer (can't leave them out). Seriously, the game should encourage grouping more than it does.

Avatin · Mar 01, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Of course. It is really more fun to play with human players. Henchmen are not really effective. However I love henchmen in two specific situations:
1) not too much people around who want to get to explorable area.
2) I must AFK in a few minutes and dont want to break a team, so I can play anyway...

Deadroot · Mar 01, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

The game (especially in later parts) isn't really meant to be soloed. Henchmen are there to fill out the rest of your party should you need it, they aren't really meant to BE your party. Adding more henchmen or making them able to compete better would only discourage partying with other people, I think.

As for the idea of making GvG and PvP 8 player minimum to enter (as in, at least 4 players and 4 henchies), I'm all for it. I don't care if henchies are in those places (makes it harder for the henchie team to win, not the others), but its annoying to play against a less than 8 player team. Its especially annoying in GvG, don't you get much less points for beating a henchie team or a team with less than 8 players?

Avatin · Mar 01, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

The game is designed to encourage team play. I am an absolute follower of any guru who believes that too.

But, coming back to my initial question, I had an insigth today (probably not that bright though

) I guess the reason they don't include neither Mesmer nor Necros is a kind of "personality" inconsistency (or incompatibility) between being an Henchman and being a necro or a Mesmer.

I bet they just don't have the right "psychological profile" to become henchies.

Duality · Mar 02, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatin

I bet they just don't have the right "psychological profile" to become henchies.

i think it's more a difficulty in creating an AI character for a profession that is reactive (mesmer) and about sacrifice and minions (necro). those two are hardest to play effectively due to their situational nature and timing i think as well.

Mar 01, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13	#1
Avatin Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Qu??bec, Canada	Mesmer Henchman Will I be able to pick up a Mesmer Henchman in the final release of the game? Maybe next Beta weekend? Last edited by Avatin; Mar 01, 2005 at 03:14 AM // 03:14.. Reason: bad translation from french

Mar 01, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43	#10
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	I'm not going to say that they need to remove byes from Tombs and GvG, but they need to at least put an 8 character minimum on new teams. The 5 man, 1 player teams are a joke and just waste everyone's time. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Mar 01, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16	#2
Kiwi Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The Holy Land of Kiwis!	Hmmm... it's imposible to say what ArenaNet will do. If I was a staff member, I'd tell you...

Mar 01, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25	#3
Deadroot Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2005 Guild: The Amazon Basin [AB] Profession: N/R	I wouldn't think so, it seems like the henchie classes have already been finalized. But as Kiwi said, you never know.

Mar 01, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27	#4
Kiwi Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The Holy Land of Kiwis!	I thank you, someone agrees! Exscuse me while I have a celebration with my brother...

Mar 01, 2005, 04:53 AM // 04:53	#5
Cicciro Banned Join Date: Feb 2005	Personally, I think they should remove henchmen from PvP.

Mar 01, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57	#7
Cicciro Banned Join Date: Feb 2005	Because PvP is about competition, especially in the Tombs and GvG. Why allow a team to steamroll another because they have henchmen? Detail the PvP more and tell people that when they don't have a group, they can go play the arena.

Mar 01, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18	#9
Nova Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CA Guild: Lords Of Kryta (LoK) Profession: R/Me	Wow, this is a good argument.. hehehe.. interesting.... HAHA! Just one question... whats a henchmen.... o.O

Mar 01, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49	#11
Cicciro Banned Join Date: Feb 2005	Just let them figure out that they need to organize a team. In the tombs or GvG these people have a lot better chance if they organize a full team, and by a lot better, I mean a grand increase in their chances. For the tombs it is not hard to form a pick-up group, and in GvG you should be forced to have a full eight man team anyway. Its how Player vs Player works. Remember, PvP is not a newbie friendly environment, having those henchmen really just gets people laughed at, scorned and belittled. Will they want to PvP again when Guild Asshole decides to /dance while killing this man and his team of NPC's? Doesn't that ruin their fun? NPC's don't belong in PvP in the core group. Why should henchmen be restricted in PvP? It promotes team work and coordination, two essential aspects of PvP (save dueling). This way they learn, this way they improve, this way they are actually participating.

Mar 01, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54	#12
Nova Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CA Guild: Lords Of Kryta (LoK) Profession: R/Me	Hmm.... makes sence I think... I will have to play the game to find out. I hope I can learn everything quickly.

Mar 01, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04	#13
Cicciro Banned Join Date: Feb 2005	Basics aren't to hard, and I'd offer to help out next weekend, but I probably won't be there. Once you start memerizing skills and number crunching it's a little harder, but you get that down as well.

Mar 01, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02	#14
Greentongue Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Orlando, FL	Once there is a 4 person flavor of "Tombs" and the different layouts are mapped, I suspect you will see fewer Henchmen filled teams. Currently it is quite a pain to gather a team of 8. Even trying to get into (P)ick (U)p (G)roups so you can get a feeling for the maps and play style can take longer than most games last. Some professions are hard to get picked. If you didn't already bring your Guild Buddies, you can spend a LOT of time waiting to play.

Mar 01, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12	#15
Avatin Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Qu??bec, Canada	For those who don't know it, henchmen are Players controlled by the computer you can actually hire for free. I was not really thinking about PvP while asking my question about the future inclusion of Mesmer henchmen, but to explorable areas and PvE missions. I heard somewhere (while playing during last event) they are too much complex to be added to the game. Is that true?

Mar 01, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25	#16
Cicciro Banned Join Date: Feb 2005	Doubtful that they are too complex... just they aren't really your basic archetype. They could be added, but I really don't see any reason for the developers to script AI for a basic Mesmer setting for henchmen, as well as Necromancer (can't leave them out). Seriously, the game should encourage grouping more than it does.

Mar 01, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41	#17
Avatin Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Qu??bec, Canada	Of course. It is really more fun to play with human players. Henchmen are not really effective. However I love henchmen in two specific situations: 1) not too much people around who want to get to explorable area. 2) I must AFK in a few minutes and dont want to break a team, so I can play anyway...

Mar 01, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46	#18
Deadroot Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2005 Guild: The Amazon Basin [AB] Profession: N/R	The game (especially in later parts) isn't really meant to be soloed. Henchmen are there to fill out the rest of your party should you need it, they aren't really meant to BE your party. Adding more henchmen or making them able to compete better would only discourage partying with other people, I think. As for the idea of making GvG and PvP 8 player minimum to enter (as in, at least 4 players and 4 henchies), I'm all for it. I don't care if henchies are in those places (makes it harder for the henchie team to win, not the others), but its annoying to play against a less than 8 player team. Its especially annoying in GvG, don't you get much less points for beating a henchie team or a team with less than 8 players?

Mar 01, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06	#19
Avatin Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Qu??bec, Canada	The game is designed to encourage team play. I am an absolute follower of any guru who believes that too. But, coming back to my initial question, I had an insigth today (probably not that bright though ) I guess the reason they don't include neither Mesmer nor Necros is a kind of "personality" inconsistency (or incompatibility) between being an Henchman and being a necro or a Mesmer. I bet they just don't have the right "psychological profile" to become henchies.