No PvE RPG in GW? - Guild Wars Forums

Shazbot · Apr 17, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Based on everything I read about the zone instancing model in GW, I expected an intelligent PvE game. Instead, what I've found is the same old lazy programming, repetitive mob spawning model that every MMORPG has been using for years.

GW is advertised as having an advanced AI for managing zone instancing. It's supposed to analyze the characters in the group and then adapt the zone to prevent duplicate adventuring. There's little, if any, truth in those claims.

For example, enter the catacombs. Run a few quests and in the process eliminate every mob there. Leave. Get a new quest. Go back to the catacombs. Tah dah! All the mobs you killed are magically respawned right where they were before so you have to grind your way through them again! So much for adaptive zone instancing.

This in nothing new. We get this in every other game on the market.

So, basically, GW is designed to live up to it's name: PvP between guilds. If PvP is your thing, then GW has a lot going for it. Otherwise, anyone looking for an on-line RPG will have to look elsewhere (as in back in that stagnant heap of rehashed, bad game designs).

So, am I the only gamer that was hoping for more from this game?

Loviatar · Apr 17, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

they are talking major story components not small quest details

real life example

clear out a bat cave get every one of them dead and come back a few weeks later and you will find.............bats

they were there because it was a good place for them to begin with and there are more to replace the ones you killed

actually read what they said before squalking

it would be screwey if nothing came back

Thumpy · Apr 17, 2005, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Are you sure they didnt meen that the AI will just adapt to your size and skill of group? Which in my mind is different from anything else! (Cept for Dark Age of Camelot: Catacombs which now has a system like it, which just came out).

Correct me if im wrong but your looking for different mobs evertime you enter the same area?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

it would be screwey if nothing came back

I would have to agree, if you are looking for a game that things dont come back and once you clear a area its clear but still allows you to go back there try a game like Buldars Gate: Dark Alliance or Champions of Norrath for ps2 or xbox.

Maybe im confused on what you are askin, sorry,
-Thumpy

Loviatar · Apr 17, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

no

he is refering to the altering of the map you go into to reflect the group experience

example

if an npc is normally on that map but someone in the group is a bit farther along in the story and saw that npc killed that npc will not be shown to the group as it would be a paradox

Thumpy · Apr 17, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Oh, i see sorry Shaz!
Thanks for clearing that up for me!

-Thumpy

Elythe · Apr 17, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I believe what Shazbot is saying is that he/she expected a more dynamic form of PvE. Monsters spawn in the same place every time you enter an area (from my experience, haven't been through the whole game), so every time you enter an area you generally see the same mobs in the same place. Shazbot was expecting something more random and varied that would increase the number/difficulty of mobs based on the composition and level of your team.

I'd say that the fact that mob spawning isn't dynamic is kind of a let down to me too, but I don't really mind it so much. The game's still beautiful and grouping with intelligent players is quite fun. It has a lot to offer, even if it does fall back on some MMORPG standards. Also, it's still beta. Maybe that's something that'll be polished somewhere down the line, who knows?

Roken · Apr 17, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazbot

So, am I the only gamer that was hoping for more from this game?

This game has met my expectations, and passed them with flying colors. Districts, outside city zones all to your group, crafting (The way GW has it set up)... All of it I have never experienced in any other MMO, and to me it is genius. You are right, though. I enter zone after zone to find the mobs in the same place as before, even the roamers. I never really thought of it as a problem until I read your post. The only issue I see with it is named mob camping, though I have not seen any named drop anything legendary, unless it is a quest item.

Ill tell you what you're going to hear a thousand times... " 'Tis still is beta. "

Loviatar · Apr 17, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roken

The only issue I see with it is named mob camping, though I have not seen any named drop anything legendary, unless it is a quest item.

Ill tell you what you're going to hear a thousand times... " 'Tis still is beta. "

that is the beauty of it

you can camp to your hearts content and not ever find the super uber weapon of balance breaking vigor

skyraker · Apr 17, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Most MMORPG's treat respawns as 'you sit and wait long enough, the monster will reappear.' I've been in an area for almost an hour and the beauty is I know if I took a wrong turn I don't have to worry about that level 15 boss I killed already returning.

Also, I've seen the area(non-mission) change based on what quests I have/completed, and somewhat on group size and ability. A couple of the 'clear the road' quests have been like that.

Grumpy Monkey · Apr 17, 2005, 10:57 PM // 22:57

but still this is the beta testing still there may be a few new things when it comes out? theres gonna be a few CDs of this game were only getting a small download of it.

specs:
Windows?? XP/2000/ME/98
Intel Pentium?? III 800 Mhz or equivalent
256 MB RAM
CD-ROM Drive
2 GB Available HDD Space
ATI Radeon 8500 or GeForce 3 or 4 MX Series Video Card with 32MB of VRAM
16-bit Sound Card
Internet connection
Keyboard and mouse

Quote:

2 GB Available HDD Space

i know i have not downloaded 2GBs

-=GB=-

Ignotus · Apr 18, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I actually encountered what appeared to be some type of dynamic spawning yesterday. When I entered Old Ascalon from the Sanitarium (forget the exact name) with a warrior henchman in my group, there was a mob to the left that was similar to hulking rock golem mobs (can't remember the exact name), but he was glowing and double the level of the "normal" rock mobs. One time he was glowing red and had a name fiery name. Most other times he was glowing yellow and had a different name. When I entered this area alone without any henchmen, he was NEVER there, but instead replaced with a normal, lower level hulking rock mob. There is also a parchment maker NPC straight in front of you when you zone in from the sanitarium. One time when I zoned in, he wan't there. I also noticed this time that instead of there only being hulking rock golems, there were now several grawl that were attacking the golems. The zone was definitely NOT spawned with the exact same mobs every time that I entered. It wasn't different EVERY time, but it was different sometimes.

varyag · Apr 18, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazbot

Thanks, Loviatar. Give me just a moment while I place your name at the top of my 'Forum Trolls to be Ignored' list.

He was making sense. You weren't. If you were to read all the fansite friday reports and official game information this thread would be unncessary.

Ignorance is bliss?

Thumpy · Apr 18, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazbot

Thanks, Loviatar. Give me just a moment while I place your name at the top of my 'Forum Trolls to be Ignored' list.

Ah, before you ignor i would think twice. From what i have read by Loviatar, he/she has some pretty usful points throughout the forums and could be of some use to you. One more thing i must add, he did put a "

" after his/her statement which in my mind makes ther comment a little more light harted then you are taking it.

Just a thought,
-Thumpy

Devil's Dictionary · Apr 18, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazbot

Thanks, Loviatar. Give me just a moment while I place your name at the top of my 'Forum Trolls to be Ignored' list.

It is not my time and place to judge who's wrong and who's right.
However, posting "I hate this game" on the game's fan site isn't that far from trolling.
I disagree with you from the beginning; I was watching where this discussion is heading and from my current point of view, it is to be locked in the nearest future if you do not stop trashing each other. I am not saying you shouldn't post anything except love letters to ArenaNet. It would simply be better for everyone without "you troll!" accusations.
In reply to your question, I could say the same when I was playing the open beta event. I also clearly remember how I was annoyed by the fact that monsters respawned in Diablo 2. In GW, on the other hand, I don't feel to be 'ripped off': I realise that Guild War is about tactical combat (unlike Diablo-clickfest) and I don't mind restarting the mission as long as the people I am adventuring with are decent. Believe me when I tell you that if you haven't played GW with a good group, you haven't played GW.
I do hope you'll eventually change your opinion as I personally enjoy GW.

Armaio · Apr 18, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

I cant believe you are even making a big deal because mobs spawn back in the same place, get a life buddy...

Kaiwyn · Apr 18, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

I think it is cool because this obviously isn't a game that Shazbot will purchase and enjoy, so we won't have to put up with his incessant grousing on the message boards.

βlitzkrieg · Apr 18, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Aye, I knoww what you say.

Sometimes I wouldn't mind just going out by myself and killing a few random monsters, getting some gold, etc. But, you have to have a huge party to just survive. The quests do get a little repetative.

Xellos · Apr 18, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazbot

Based on everything I read about the zone instancing model in GW, I expected an intelligent PvE game. Instead, what I've found is the same old lazy programming, repetitive mob spawning model that every MMORPG has been using for years.

GW is advertised as having an advanced AI for managing zone instancing. It's supposed to analyze the characters in the group and then adapt the zone to prevent duplicate adventuring. There's little, if any, truth in those claims.

For example, enter the catacombs. Run a few quests and in the process eliminate every mob there. Leave. Get a new quest. Go back to the catacombs. Tah dah! All the mobs you killed are magically respawned right where they were before so you have to grind your way through them again! So much for adaptive zone instancing.

This in nothing new. We get this in every other game on the market.

So, basically, GW is designed to live up to it's name: PvP between guilds. If PvP is your thing, then GW has a lot going for it. Otherwise, anyone looking for an on-line RPG will have to look elsewhere (as in back in that stagnant heap of rehashed, bad game designs).

So, am I the only gamer that was hoping for more from this game?

1. While I wouldn't put it that harshly, I admit this is definately not a simulator AI level game. The computer is still stupid.

2. If bunnies came out and attacked you the catacombs, it wouldn't fit. The catacombs are part of the tutorial, and so, is made more persistant to fit the difficulty. Places like exploring Lions Arch will give you different monsters each time.

Your right on some parts, but your expectations are high. There isn't much hints of technology that allows casual gamer computers to run super AI's that pull of strategies like the top 10 guilds. That's why they make the bosses higher level and have huge stats, along with giant armies. If they were smarter, they wouldn't need to be stronger.

Scaphism · Apr 18, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Ok, this thread started out in a perfectly reasonable manner. Shazbot had a gripe with the game. Some people disagree. That is fine. However, that does not mean people need to air their grievances in public or gang up on newcomers whose opinions of the game differ from their own. This thread is not going anywhere constructive, so it is now closed. If any of you have a desperate need to reopen it, you can PM me with your reasoning and I will consider it.

Thread Closed.

Apr 17, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38	#1
Shazbot Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Apr 2005	No PvE RPG in GW? Based on everything I read about the zone instancing model in GW, I expected an intelligent PvE game. Instead, what I've found is the same old lazy programming, repetitive mob spawning model that every MMORPG has been using for years. GW is advertised as having an advanced AI for managing zone instancing. It's supposed to analyze the characters in the group and then adapt the zone to prevent duplicate adventuring. There's little, if any, truth in those claims. For example, enter the catacombs. Run a few quests and in the process eliminate every mob there. Leave. Get a new quest. Go back to the catacombs. Tah dah! All the mobs you killed are magically respawned right where they were before so you have to grind your way through them again! So much for adaptive zone instancing. This in nothing new. We get this in every other game on the market. So, basically, GW is designed to live up to it's name: PvP between guilds. If PvP is your thing, then GW has a lot going for it. Otherwise, anyone looking for an on-line RPG will have to look elsewhere (as in back in that stagnant heap of rehashed, bad game designs). So, am I the only gamer that was hoping for more from this game?

Apr 17, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16	#2
Loviatar Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Feb 2005	they are talking major story components not small quest details real life example clear out a bat cave get every one of them dead and come back a few weeks later and you will find.............bats they were there because it was a good place for them to begin with and there are more to replace the ones you killed actually read what they said before squalking it would be screwey if nothing came back

Apr 17, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24	#4
Loviatar Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Feb 2005	no he is refering to the altering of the map you go into to reflect the group experience example if an npc is normally on that map but someone in the group is a bit farther along in the story and saw that npc killed that npc will not be shown to the group as it would be a paradox

Apr 17, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27	#5
Thumpy Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota	Oh, i see sorry Shaz! Thanks for clearing that up for me! -Thumpy

Apr 17, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13	#6
Elythe Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	I believe what Shazbot is saying is that he/she expected a more dynamic form of PvE. Monsters spawn in the same place every time you enter an area (from my experience, haven't been through the whole game), so every time you enter an area you generally see the same mobs in the same place. Shazbot was expecting something more random and varied that would increase the number/difficulty of mobs based on the composition and level of your team. I'd say that the fact that mob spawning isn't dynamic is kind of a let down to me too, but I don't really mind it so much. The game's still beautiful and grouping with intelligent players is quite fun. It has a lot to offer, even if it does fall back on some MMORPG standards. Also, it's still beta. Maybe that's something that'll be polished somewhere down the line, who knows?

Apr 17, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20	#9
skyraker Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	Most MMORPG's treat respawns as 'you sit and wait long enough, the monster will reappear.' I've been in an area for almost an hour and the beauty is I know if I took a wrong turn I don't have to worry about that level 15 boss I killed already returning. Also, I've seen the area(non-mission) change based on what quests I have/completed, and somewhat on group size and ability. A couple of the 'clear the road' quests have been like that.

Apr 18, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05	#11
Ignotus Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2005 Guild: Parliament of Rooks Profession: W/Mo	I actually encountered what appeared to be some type of dynamic spawning yesterday. When I entered Old Ascalon from the Sanitarium (forget the exact name) with a warrior henchman in my group, there was a mob to the left that was similar to hulking rock golem mobs (can't remember the exact name), but he was glowing and double the level of the "normal" rock mobs. One time he was glowing red and had a name fiery name. Most other times he was glowing yellow and had a different name. When I entered this area alone without any henchmen, he was NEVER there, but instead replaced with a normal, lower level hulking rock mob. There is also a parchment maker NPC straight in front of you when you zone in from the sanitarium. One time when I zoned in, he wan't there. I also noticed this time that instead of there only being hulking rock golems, there were now several grawl that were attacking the golems. The zone was definitely NOT spawned with the exact same mobs every time that I entered. It wasn't different EVERY time, but it was different sometimes.

Apr 18, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58	#15
Armaio Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Canada	I cant believe you are even making a big deal because mobs spawn back in the same place, get a life buddy...

Apr 18, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47	#16
Kaiwyn Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BC Canada	I think it is cool because this obviously isn't a game that Shazbot will purchase and enjoy, so we won't have to put up with his incessant grousing on the message boards.

Apr 18, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54	#17
βlitzkrieg Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Zealand Guild: The Obsidian Kings Profession: Me/N	Aye, I knoww what you say. Sometimes I wouldn't mind just going out by myself and killing a few random monsters, getting some gold, etc. But, you have to have a huge party to just survive. The quests do get a little repetative.