Dmg Dealt? - Guild Wars Forums

valorien · Apr 19, 2005, 06:14 AM // 06:14

My question is mainly concerned with Dual Shot vs. Penetrating Attack.

I'm not entirely sure I understand how dmg is decided but I hope this is accurate enough. Let's say you are dealing 100dmg/arrow and your target has 60AL. You've got favorable winds giving +3dmg and Conjure Lightning adding an additional 13.

Penetrating shot: 100dmg(base)+15(penetrating)+13(lightning)+3(Fav. Wnd) = 131dmg. 20% armor penetration makes 48AL so 131dmg - 48 = 83dmg.

Now, for dual shot do you figure all the damage after taking armor into account once OR does each arrow take armor into consideration?

EX: 100+100+13+13+3+3= 232dmg x .75= 174 - 60AL = 114dmg.
EX2: 100+13+3= 116 x .75= 87 - 60AL = 27/arrow. Total = 54dmg.

This also brings up the question of whether the armor reduces damage before or after the 25% off from Dual Shot. More importantly I just want to know which is going to be doing more damage Dual or Penetrating!

Xellos · Apr 19, 2005, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Each arrow takes armour into consideration. Dual Shot isn't good for most things besides read-the-wind+conjure shots, but that combo isn't exactly long-term efficient, so I don't think people use it much.

Maybe if it was like hundred blades and given no reduction penalty, it'd be strong, but then it might have to be elite.

Freyas · Apr 19, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

You should take a look at Ensigns "Treatise on Combat Mathematics" here. He talks about armor pentetration and such like that. It seems to me that you're figuring damage a bit incorrectly, notably regarding AL.

If you attack for 28 damage(maximum damage on a bow), assuming you and your opponent are both level 20, and you have 12 attribute points in Marksmanship, using Favorable Winds and Conjure Lightning(3 and 13 damage respectively from your example)

Against a 60AL opponent, you will deal:

Dual Shot: 2 arrows at 21 damage each, with 16 bonus damage from Favorable Winds and Conjure Lightning, at a total of 74 damage.

Penetrating Shot: 1 Arrow at 28 damage with 20% armor penetration for 34 damage, with 16 bonus damage from Conjure Lightning and Favorable Winds(these are separate damage sources and don't get the penetration), so 50 damage.

Versus an 80 AL opponent, you will deal:
Dual shot: 2 arrows at 21 damage each, with 16 bonus damage from Favorable winds and Conjure Lightning, reduced by armor for a total of 52 damage.

Penetrating Shot: 1 Arrow at 28 damage with 20% armor penetration giving 26 damage, with Favorable Winds and Conjure Lightning reduced by armor, giving a total of 37 damage.

With damage buffs such as conjures, Dual Shot outperforms most damage-dealing bow skills. Even without damage buffs, it does better than most, seeing as even versus an 80 AL target in the example above without the damage buffs, dual shot will deal 29 damage as opposed to the 26 damage via Penetrating Shot. Penetrating Shot will have a greater effect at higher armor levels, but you will run into very few opponents with >80 AL unless you are attacking a ranger with elemental damage or a warrior with physical damage. At 100 AL, Penetrating Shot will outperform Dual Shot.

Even with the 75% damage on Dual Shot, you're essentially dealing 150% your normal damage with that attack(2*75%), and you get double effect from damage buffs. In most cases, this will put Dual Shot above most other ranger damage skills.

valorien · Apr 19, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Thank you very much, this is exactly what I was looking for.

Apr 19, 2005, 06:14 AM // 06:14	#1
valorien Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	Dmg Dealt? My question is mainly concerned with Dual Shot vs. Penetrating Attack. I'm not entirely sure I understand how dmg is decided but I hope this is accurate enough. Let's say you are dealing 100dmg/arrow and your target has 60AL. You've got favorable winds giving +3dmg and Conjure Lightning adding an additional 13. Penetrating shot: 100dmg(base)+15(penetrating)+13(lightning)+3(Fav. Wnd) = 131dmg. 20% armor penetration makes 48AL so 131dmg - 48 = 83dmg. Now, for dual shot do you figure all the damage after taking armor into account once OR does each arrow take armor into consideration? EX: 100+100+13+13+3+3= 232dmg x .75= 174 - 60AL = 114dmg. EX2: 100+13+3= 116 x .75= 87 - 60AL = 27/arrow. Total = 54dmg. This also brings up the question of whether the armor reduces damage before or after the 25% off from Dual Shot. More importantly I just want to know which is going to be doing more damage Dual or Penetrating!

Apr 19, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12	#3
Freyas Champion of the Absurd Join Date: Jan 2005 Guild: Spirits of War Profession: Mo/W	You should take a look at Ensigns "Treatise on Combat Mathematics" here. He talks about armor pentetration and such like that. It seems to me that you're figuring damage a bit incorrectly, notably regarding AL. If you attack for 28 damage(maximum damage on a bow), assuming you and your opponent are both level 20, and you have 12 attribute points in Marksmanship, using Favorable Winds and Conjure Lightning(3 and 13 damage respectively from your example) Against a 60AL opponent, you will deal: Dual Shot: 2 arrows at 21 damage each, with 16 bonus damage from Favorable Winds and Conjure Lightning, at a total of 74 damage. Penetrating Shot: 1 Arrow at 28 damage with 20% armor penetration for 34 damage, with 16 bonus damage from Conjure Lightning and Favorable Winds(these are separate damage sources and don't get the penetration), so 50 damage. Versus an 80 AL opponent, you will deal: Dual shot: 2 arrows at 21 damage each, with 16 bonus damage from Favorable winds and Conjure Lightning, reduced by armor for a total of 52 damage. Penetrating Shot: 1 Arrow at 28 damage with 20% armor penetration giving 26 damage, with Favorable Winds and Conjure Lightning reduced by armor, giving a total of 37 damage. With damage buffs such as conjures, Dual Shot outperforms most damage-dealing bow skills. Even without damage buffs, it does better than most, seeing as even versus an 80 AL target in the example above without the damage buffs, dual shot will deal 29 damage as opposed to the 26 damage via Penetrating Shot. Penetrating Shot will have a greater effect at higher armor levels, but you will run into very few opponents with >80 AL unless you are attacking a ranger with elemental damage or a warrior with physical damage. At 100 AL, Penetrating Shot will outperform Dual Shot. Even with the 75% damage on Dual Shot, you're essentially dealing 150% your normal damage with that attack(2*75%), and you get double effect from damage buffs. In most cases, this will put Dual Shot above most other ranger damage skills. __________________ Freyas- Spirits of War ~The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

Apr 19, 2005, 06:36 AM // 06:36	#2
Xellos Jungle Guide Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: No Idea	Each arrow takes armour into consideration. Dual Shot isn't good for most things besides read-the-wind+conjure shots, but that combo isn't exactly long-term efficient, so I don't think people use it much. Maybe if it was like hundred blades and given no reduction penalty, it'd be strong, but then it might have to be elite.

Apr 19, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23	#4
valorien Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	Thank you very much, this is exactly what I was looking for.