Mesmer Difficulty? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Ander Deathblade · Apr 21, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

mesmers are great if you're not a dps nerd. they don't do high damage, they shut down stuff. It's not all that more advanced, in fact, I think the least advanced classest are the hardest to play well. but they are also the easiest to play when you're new. Like, Blackout: disable your skills for x time, disable the other guy for x time. If you aim it at some warrior/ranger attacking you, you're a frigging idiot. but if you aim it at the only monk that isn't being targeted, you've just made a great move. Mesmers are best if people are ignoring them; I find a good mesmer the most important target to focus on; though if his monks are on the ball, they'll have to go down first.

Scaphism · Apr 22, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

A lot has already been said, but I'd like to reiterate one point I haven't seen emphasized much.

Mesmer perfomance in PvE belies their usefulness in PVP.
PvE is full of lots of monsters that try and overwhelm you with sheer numbers and melee damage. Mesmers excell at shutting down 2-3 caster-type enemies. That doesn't mean you can't dedicate your mesmer to fighter hate, but that's not really where mesmers shine. Additionally, you'll often be overwhelmed in PVE, and mesmers are really better at shutting down a few targets, but struggle against larger groups.

So if you're set on playing a mesmer, I'd recommend playing one as a secondary in PVE so you can get an idea of their capacity, before you devote yourself to a PVE character that's designed to shine in PVP.

Eclair · Apr 22, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

I went to old Ascalon at level 7 and didn't have too much trouble taking care of level 3-4 monsters in groups 3-4. Energy Feast does wonders for healing, and as monk secondary, the protection skills are very useful.

Dalia · Apr 22, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

All I played for 2 BWE's was a mes/elem -- without realizing most think it's a tricky build -- no wonder I was struggling sometimes! I guess this means I'd find the whole game easier if I switch. But I've grown rather attached to my gal, even though, yes, it's tough when the beasties mob up. I'm really tempted to try her again to see how far I can take her.

I'm sure to learn a lot on the way, yes? And since I don't have the time -- or the math skills! -- that some of you have, well, I have to learn some way.

Who knows? By the time I get her to 20 she might actually want to PvP.

Dalia

oh, and, yes, she looks quite dashing!

Dravic Badmoon · Apr 22, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

It is time for me to throw in my two cents of knowledge about Mesmers. I have played a mes/ranger, before going with a mes/ele build. The Mesmer is an advance class, and maybe slightly difficult for new players. Those who are use to playing MMORPGs, and playing the more advance classes in those games, should not have a problem by playing a Mesmer right off the bat. For those who plan to play a Mesmer I suggest going to the skills section of the Guru, and read through all the skills of the Mesmer, Necromancer, Monk, and Elementalist. This way you can figure out what you want your secondary profession to be. A Mesmer has the ability to interrupt skills, redirect hexes, inflict DOTs, hex enemies, and most importantly steal or drain energy. You can take as a secondary profession the ranger, if you want the anti-caster build. I suggest that you take one of the three other professions mention above, as a secondary. Therefore, to answer the original question, yes the Mesmer can be a difficult class to play, which is why it carries a warning label. On a side note, in regards to the Mesmer being a poor PvE character I must disagree slightly. I have been known to be the last man standing, and the saving member of my group in a few missions. Mesmer can hold their own in PvE, if you use the correct skills.

NiknudStunod · Apr 22, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I don't know if I was a newb in class building or not but I really enjoyed the mes/n build. When I played daoc after its initial release I fell in love with the mana speced mentalist. I was one of the first to 50 on my server and had led the server in rps once that was released for a long time. The aoe dot was just a great tool. I would fustrate stealthers but running into a group of mobs and aoe doting and revealing them then stunning and dotting again and again. Of course once realm abilities came out I got the good with the bad. I could crit my dot as well as have them purge it which really was the reason I left the game. Ok enough jabbering about the old. I finally talked myself into preordering this game right before last beta. I didn't know much about it but really got into it once beta started. I stumbled into along testing different builds not really knowing much about class skills. I finally settled into my old role again as a DOTer. I loved stacking drains and phantasms on players that our team's warriors were attacking. Sometimes they would be purged but a lot of the time it really dished out a lot of damage. I really loved attacking monks this way. You might see mes damage builds as newb builds but I just see them as another aspect of a great game.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 22, 2005, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkIcePhoenix

Well, I preorded at a good time. The day after the last beta event.
I've been reading over the classes, and Mesmer definitly sounds like the class I'd be most interested in playing. But everytime I see a guide or information, it's also spammed with "Warning: Advanced Class." Is this true? Would being a mesmer be over the top for a GW newbie or can I sludge it through?

The ideo that a Mesmer is hard to play is a load of specious bullshit that his been drilled into newcomers heads. Mesmers can be very easy to play as well as a class that may require experience. But hard? Not in the slightest.

A mesmer can take on several roles. The one that is normally considered as "hard" is caster interution, I would suppose. Simply because it takes good timing to send an energy spike right into the middle of their cast and punish them for trying to harm your team. It can also be a bit hard to create a good build because the role of Mesmer isn't just to run up and kill stuff. Your role as a mesmer is to cause damage and stop everything that tries to cast spells. Trust me, if you like this class, you will learn to play it quickly and effectively. You don't just jump into the game and try to climb a veticle learning curve! You go through the learning stages like we all do. A mesmer is no harder than a ranger or an elementalist or a monk.

Scaphism · Apr 22, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravic Badmoon

I have been known to be the last man standing, and the saving member of my group in a few missions. Mesmer can hold their own in PvE, if you use the correct skills.

Oftentimes being the last man standing in a PVE mission is a matter of being the first one to realize when it's time to run away. The smart thing for the rest of the team to do is scatter in some direction away from the rezzer, hopefully putting their bodies in different areas of the map so they can be rezzed one by one without the rezzer having to deal with the mobs that kill you.
I never said mesmers can't hold their own in PVE, it just happens that their strengths are not best suited to PVE. Especially given their early skill selection, which is a driving force behind each class' viability in PVE. However, if you can't make a character that's at least useful in PVE when you have every skill available to you, you're not trying hard enough. The only thing is, mesmers have a harder time than the rest. It's not a knock on the profession, that's how the skill trainers make it.

Diamondspider · Apr 22, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33

The question obviously isn't how hard it is to play a Mesmer at all, the question is how hard it is to play one WELL.

Obviously anyone can buy the skills and click buttons.

When selecting Mesmer for the Primary class, you then must accept having Fast Casting for your Primary Attribute.

Since you can cast every single Mesmer spell (except one) by picking Elementalist Primary and Mesmer Secondary, the question is why give up the large energy pool for Fast Casting?

Bottom line is, if you can't answer the question as to exactly why you need Fast Casting as Primary Attribute then chances are you'd be better off avoiding playing a Mesmer Primary.

If you can say exactly which spells you plan on using will benefit so much from being cast SLIGHTLY faster in exchange for having 1/2 the energy pool size, then your ready to play Mesmer Primary WELL.

That is how I see it at least.

Yes, there are some exceptions like IW; and yes, this is a slight oversimplification, but basically, when they say it is for advanced GW players (not advanced MMORPG players) I think they mean what they say.

BunnyMaster · Apr 22, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Hmm. I see a big difference between playing a Prime Mesmer and a Good Mesmer. The Fact Casting is useless, when you look at the interrupt skills (1/4 sec is fast...) or the other lines of Mesmer.

Diamondspider · Apr 22, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunnyMaster

Hmm. I see a big difference between playing a Prime Mesmer and a Good Mesmer. The Fact Casting is useless, when you look at the interrupt skills (1/4 sec is fast...) or the other lines of Mesmer.

That is my point: when you pick Mesmer as your primary class, you automatically are also choosing Fast Casting as your primary attribute.

Since Fast Casting does generally suck unless you know exactly what you are doing (and I do mean EXACTLY), that is a big part of why a player who is new to GW should not pick Mesmer as primary.

With all the other classes, you get a very useful primary attribute (debatable about Soul Reaping for PvP use, but true as far as PvE for sure) which is not true of Mesmer.

Rellok · Apr 22, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamondspider

That is my point: when you pick Mesmer as your primary class, you automatically are also choosing Fast Casting as your primary attribute.

Since Fast Casting does generally suck unless you know exactly what you are doing (and I do mean EXACTLY), that is a big part of why a player who is new to GW should not pick Mesmer as primary.

You also get Mesmer armor, and runes for your mesmer lines. So it can help with your attributes.

Matt

Badenstein · Apr 22, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

The ideo that a Mesmer is hard to play is a load of specious bullshit that his been drilled into newcomers heads. Mesmers can be very easy to play as well as a class that may require experience. But hard? Not in the slightest.

A mesmer can take on several roles. The one that is normally considered as "hard" is caster interution, I would suppose. Simply because it takes good timing to send an energy spike right into the middle of their cast and punish them for trying to harm your team. It can also be a bit hard to create a good build because the role of Mesmer isn't just to run up and kill stuff. Your role as a mesmer is to cause damage and stop everything that tries to cast spells. Trust me, if you like this class, you will learn to play it quickly and effectively. You don't just jump into the game and try to climb a veticle learning curve! You go through the learning stages like we all do. A mesmer is no harder than a ranger or an elementalist or a monk.

I whole heartedly agree with Weezer_Blue. I am more convinced it is important to learn how to play the character you build than it is to play a certain build. To a certain degree every profession needs some "learning" to play correctly. I'll say it again. Learn how to play the character you are building, and how it fits into the group you are with. Learn its weaknesses and strengths. Tweak it as you go. In the end you'll enjoy the character.

mostro · Apr 22, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

One of the more enjoyable things I experienced as a mesmer is dueling another mesmer. Unlike shutting down a monk, shutting down another mesmer is a whole lot harder since they have the same disruptive tools as you

Like what others have said, it is somewhat hard to measure a mesmer's contribution in a group. Usually the way to tell whether you need a mesmer in your group is when either your team got hit by too many enemy spells or your team cannot seem to outdamage the enemy healing.

I have seen a lot of people try to use a mesmer as anti-melee. My advise to this is: stick with the casters. You are not using your mesmer to the fullest potential if you are trying to shutdown warriors.

Marksmann · Apr 22, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

One of the more enjoyable things I experienced as a mesmer is dueling another mesmer. Unlike shutting down a monk, shutting down another mesmer is a whole lot harder since they have the same disruptive tools as you

Like what others have said, it is somewhat hard to measure a mesmer's contribution in a group. Usually the way to tell whether you need a mesmer in your group is when either your team got hit by too many enemy spells or your team cannot seem to outdamage the enemy healing.

I have seen a lot of people try to use a mesmer as anti-melee. My advise to this is: stick with the casters. You are not using your mesmer to the fullest potential if you are trying to shutdown warriors.

Very good points, especially the last one. I've found with my Mes/Rang that at the lower levels, and against fewer enemies, the mesmer can hold his/her own quite nicely, against all opponent professions. But it is at the higher levels and against larger groups of opponents, that the mesmer needs to focus on the opposing spell casters in order to be the most help to the group you're with. This is where the recognition of the enemy caster's spell, knowing how to effectively deal with that, and the TIMING to make it happen, can make the difference between a "flop in the oven" or the "piece de resistance!" Fast Cast can make a difference here. It's challenging, and fraught with risks, but it's a blast when it works. The mesmer can often be the one who "casts the first stone," whether he/she is the team leader or not and depending on the class makeup of the team. But all this does take practice, and a lot of it. We shouldn't let fear of failure keep us from experiencing what can be a very fun & interesting challenge.

This has been a good thread. Lots of thoughtful comments & queries. I hope it keeps going.

Starflower · Apr 23, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

The reason I compared a GW Mesmer to an EQ Enchanter is not because they actually have the same spell lines (though my Enchanter pride rankles terribly at the implication they were only good for crack and haste

), but because the Mesmer seems to have a similar play style.

That is, as an Enchanter, if a bunch of mobs were pulled down on the party, I had to stand back and very, very quickly figure out what I had to do to keep the party alive. It involved keeping a very "big-picture" view of the whole situation and adjusting my technique dramatically depending on what we had (how many mobs? How many are casters? Any bosses? Does the paladin have aggro locked yet?)

My friend the paladin would pick one mob and focus on it. The healer would focus on peoples' health bars. But support staff like Enchanters and Shaman had to always be really flexible and adaptive. That looks like a Mesmer to me (to be fair, it looks like all classes in GW have to be more flexible too, which is part of the reason I'm so jazzed about it).

In PvE (I've never liked PvP though I'm hoping to give it a try in GW), I'll be in a steady duo with my husband, and I think a primary Mesmer looks like it has a good chance of supplementing a regular partner's strengths well.

And, well, part of it is that it'll just break my heart not to be able to have the primary Mesmer's looks. Seeing screenshots of the Mesmer was the moment I knew I was going to try Guild Wars. If I discover I'm not competant enough to play one well, I'll just cry...

Starflower
(last...week....going....so.....slowly....)

Diamondspider · Apr 23, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starflower

.... If I discover I'm not competant enough to play one well, I'll just cry...

Starflower
(last...week....going....so.....slowly....)

Ironically enough, Starflower, I feel very similarly to you. The first BWE I played a Mesmer and loved the look so much that I nearly died!

Then, as I understood the game better, I got depressed. I then spent hours trying to find some way to make a Mesmer primary caster good in PvE. When I failed I--like you--am still tempted to play it just for looks.

My plan is to just play with friends. Then, I can do whatever I want

The great thing about friends is that they accept me for who I am, and if I want to play a gimped PvE character then they'll be glad to back me up

I pray that they put some more spells into an expansion that make Fast Casting a bit better for PvE... then my worries will be over.

Apr 22, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40	#23
Eclair Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: I went to old Ascalon at level 7 and didn't have too much trouble taking care of level 3-4 monsters in groups 3-4. Energy Feast does wonders for healing, and as monk secondary, the protection skills are very useful.

Apr 22, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33	#29
Diamondspider Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005	The question obviously isn't how hard it is to play a Mesmer at all, the question is how hard it is to play one WELL. Obviously anyone can buy the skills and click buttons. When selecting Mesmer for the Primary class, you then must accept having Fast Casting for your Primary Attribute. Since you can cast every single Mesmer spell (except one) by picking Elementalist Primary and Mesmer Secondary, the question is why give up the large energy pool for Fast Casting? Bottom line is, if you can't answer the question as to exactly why you need Fast Casting as Primary Attribute then chances are you'd be better off avoiding playing a Mesmer Primary. If you can say exactly which spells you plan on using will benefit so much from being cast SLIGHTLY faster in exchange for having 1/2 the energy pool size, then your ready to play Mesmer Primary WELL. That is how I see it at least. Yes, there are some exceptions like IW; and yes, this is a slight oversimplification, but basically, when they say it is for advanced GW players (not advanced MMORPG players) I think they mean what they say. Last edited by Diamondspider; Apr 22, 2005 at 12:49 PM // 12:49..

Apr 22, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47	#34
mostro Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005 Profession: Me/E	One of the more enjoyable things I experienced as a mesmer is dueling another mesmer. Unlike shutting down a monk, shutting down another mesmer is a whole lot harder since they have the same disruptive tools as you Like what others have said, it is somewhat hard to measure a mesmer's contribution in a group. Usually the way to tell whether you need a mesmer in your group is when either your team got hit by too many enemy spells or your team cannot seem to outdamage the enemy healing. I have seen a lot of people try to use a mesmer as anti-melee. My advise to this is: stick with the casters. You are not using your mesmer to the fullest potential if you are trying to shutdown warriors. Last edited by mostro; Apr 22, 2005 at 02:56 PM // 14:56..

Apr 21, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38	#21
Ander Deathblade Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005	mesmers are great if you're not a dps nerd. they don't do high damage, they shut down stuff. It's not all that more advanced, in fact, I think the least advanced classest are the hardest to play well. but they are also the easiest to play when you're new. Like, Blackout: disable your skills for x time, disable the other guy for x time. If you aim it at some warrior/ranger attacking you, you're a frigging idiot. but if you aim it at the only monk that isn't being targeted, you've just made a great move. Mesmers are best if people are ignoring them; I find a good mesmer the most important target to focus on; though if his monks are on the ball, they'll have to go down first.

Apr 22, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49	#24
Dalia Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2005	All I played for 2 BWE's was a mes/elem -- without realizing most think it's a tricky build -- no wonder I was struggling sometimes! I guess this means I'd find the whole game easier if I switch. But I've grown rather attached to my gal, even though, yes, it's tough when the beasties mob up. I'm really tempted to try her again to see how far I can take her. I'm sure to learn a lot on the way, yes? And since I don't have the time -- or the math skills! -- that some of you have, well, I have to learn some way. Who knows? By the time I get her to 20 she might actually want to PvP. Dalia oh, and, yes, she looks quite dashing!

Apr 22, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08	#25
Dravic Badmoon Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Currently AFK at the moment... Guild: Badmoon's Militia Profession: Me/E	It is time for me to throw in my two cents of knowledge about Mesmers. I have played a mes/ranger, before going with a mes/ele build. The Mesmer is an advance class, and maybe slightly difficult for new players. Those who are use to playing MMORPGs, and playing the more advance classes in those games, should not have a problem by playing a Mesmer right off the bat. For those who plan to play a Mesmer I suggest going to the skills section of the Guru, and read through all the skills of the Mesmer, Necromancer, Monk, and Elementalist. This way you can figure out what you want your secondary profession to be. A Mesmer has the ability to interrupt skills, redirect hexes, inflict DOTs, hex enemies, and most importantly steal or drain energy. You can take as a secondary profession the ranger, if you want the anti-caster build. I suggest that you take one of the three other professions mention above, as a secondary. Therefore, to answer the original question, yes the Mesmer can be a difficult class to play, which is why it carries a warning label. On a side note, in regards to the Mesmer being a poor PvE character I must disagree slightly. I have been known to be the last man standing, and the saving member of my group in a few missions. Mesmer can hold their own in PvE, if you use the correct skills.

Apr 22, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26	#26
NiknudStunod Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005	I don't know if I was a newb in class building or not but I really enjoyed the mes/n build. When I played daoc after its initial release I fell in love with the mana speced mentalist. I was one of the first to 50 on my server and had led the server in rps once that was released for a long time. The aoe dot was just a great tool. I would fustrate stealthers but running into a group of mobs and aoe doting and revealing them then stunning and dotting again and again. Of course once realm abilities came out I got the good with the bad. I could crit my dot as well as have them purge it which really was the reason I left the game. Ok enough jabbering about the old. I finally talked myself into preordering this game right before last beta. I didn't know much about it but really got into it once beta started. I stumbled into along testing different builds not really knowing much about class skills. I finally settled into my old role again as a DOTer. I loved stacking drains and phantasms on players that our team's warriors were attacking. Sometimes they would be purged but a lot of the time it really dished out a lot of damage. I really loved attacking monks this way. You might see mes damage builds as newb builds but I just see them as another aspect of a great game.

Apr 22, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56	#30
BunnyMaster Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Holland Guild: Army of Fairies Profession: R/N	Hmm. I see a big difference between playing a Prime Mesmer and a Good Mesmer. The Fact Casting is useless, when you look at the interrupt skills (1/4 sec is fast...) or the other lines of Mesmer.

Apr 23, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36	#36
Starflower Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	The reason I compared a GW Mesmer to an EQ Enchanter is not because they actually have the same spell lines (though my Enchanter pride rankles terribly at the implication they were only good for crack and haste ), but because the Mesmer seems to have a similar play style. That is, as an Enchanter, if a bunch of mobs were pulled down on the party, I had to stand back and very, very quickly figure out what I had to do to keep the party alive. It involved keeping a very "big-picture" view of the whole situation and adjusting my technique dramatically depending on what we had (how many mobs? How many are casters? Any bosses? Does the paladin have aggro locked yet?) My friend the paladin would pick one mob and focus on it. The healer would focus on peoples' health bars. But support staff like Enchanters and Shaman had to always be really flexible and adaptive. That looks like a Mesmer to me (to be fair, it looks like all classes in GW have to be more flexible too, which is part of the reason I'm so jazzed about it). In PvE (I've never liked PvP though I'm hoping to give it a try in GW), I'll be in a steady duo with my husband, and I think a primary Mesmer looks like it has a good chance of supplementing a regular partner's strengths well. And, well, part of it is that it'll just break my heart not to be able to have the primary Mesmer's looks. Seeing screenshots of the Mesmer was the moment I knew I was going to try Guild Wars. If I discover I'm not competant enough to play one well, I'll just cry... Starflower (last...week....going....so.....slowly....)