Guild Wars & Old EQ - Guild Wars Forums

Grateful · Apr 22, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Hello,

I've just preordered, as it seems many have, and I'm wondering if any of you who have played GW in the more recent betas have any notion of how the team combat feels in relation to the original few years of Everquest.

I've been playin MMORPGs from EQ1, to DAOC, to AC, to WoW. The only two I stuck with for any length of time were EQ (almost five years) and WoW (about six months, and two level 60 toons). I had a real sense of teamwork when I played EQ that I felt was sorely lacking from WoW. Each class in EQ had unique abilities and skills, and using them was critical to the success of the team.

It felt much less so in WoW. Alot of that game felt as though virtually any combination was fine, though of course a well-balanced team always did better. Unfortunately, too often the game felt like a free-for-all fest, with less skill and more simple, madcap melee. EQ1, until they started "kiddie-fying" it, felt more challenging and rewarding to spend time with others.

Would you say that GW is closer to EQ1, with more of a focus on grouping and understanding your class, or to WoW, where it's primarily a single-player game with a lesser focus on team-based combat? I'm trying to rekindle my interest in MMORPGs. I don't want to get stuck on the Wheel of Acquisition (constantly hunting for better gear as a goal unto itself), but I ache for the challenge of a good dungeon crawl where you eke out a victory because your team was scrappy and determined.

Thanks for any feedback

Raumoheru · Apr 22, 2005, 11:03 PM // 23:03

there is definitly a teamwork atmosphere, unless you goin a not so good group.

you typically cant just go free-for-all or you will die, very fast.

Kha · Apr 22, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

It blows all other games away in every aspect. Enough said

Diamondspider · Apr 22, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

I'd start by understanding that GW really is two separate but slightly connected games:

1) the PvE game,
2) the PvP game.

Since you are talking about EQ1 (which I beta tested and played also), I'll just compared GW's PvE part which isn't too fair since the PvP is where a lot of effort went in on GW.

Anyway, EQ1 vs GW PvE? I think it is fair to say that in both games you get out what you put in.

In other words, when I joined a random group in EQ it was usually frustrating due to poor play and such and the same thing goes for GW.

So, it comes down to who you team with. If you team with good players that you know and who select areas to play that are ideal for the group, then I have indeed experienced times where very tight teamwork and "codependancy" was very much needed in GW. This tends to happen later on in the leveling curve moreso.

In EQ, however, the roles were more crisply defined while in GW it can be very hard to tell what the role of a player's setup is based on just the professions they pick.

So, if you seek this level of tight and challenging gameplay in GW, I think it can be found, but it will require playing with friends you know well and also will be found more later in the leveling curve and my guess even more so in the expansions.

I personally didn't like EQ much largely because the roles were TOO cookie-cutter and defined for my taste. However, it is possible to define roles by agreement with friends and get that in GW also if you wish.

So, long and short, YES GW can provide the experience I think you are looking for, but just like in EQ it won't magically happen often in a random pick-up group.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 22, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

From your description of EverQuest (I haven't played it), Guild Wars is more akin to EQ than it is to WoW. GW and WoW are like oil and water. One is good to consume while the other will make you vomit... oh... and they don't mix...

Of course, Guild Wars is different than EQ as well. Guild Wars is all about the endgame, while EQ was mostly having to do with the levels imbetween "newb" and the cap. Guild Wars has only 20 levels. If you'd like to learn more about this, see the sticky at the top of the page ... it explains it better than I could alone.

Diamondspider · Apr 22, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

...

Of course, Guild Wars is different than EQ as well. Guild Wars is all about the endgame, while EQ was mostly having to do with the levels imbetween "newb" and the cap. Guild Wars has only 20 levels. ...

The funny part is that I remember players often saying in EQ that "the game really begins at level 60 when you can stop worrying about leveling and focus on raiding--it is all about the endgame."

This was a later period of EQ though. The "old days" of EQ was mostly about finding a few friends who knew enough of what they were doing so you wouldn't lose 8 hours of experience from one bad pull. Or more like waiting around for them to log on since you could't play without them.

melanko · Apr 22, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamondspider

The funny part is that I remember players often saying in EQ that "the game really begins at level 60 when you can stop worrying about leveling and focus on raiding--it is all about the endgame."

This was a later period of EQ though. The "old days" of EQ was mostly about finding a few friends who knew enough of what they were doing to stop you from losing 8 hours of experience from a bad pull.

I agree, during the later days of EQ1, I realized that the game really doesn't become fun till you reach the Cap. Everything before that point is leading towards the rewards of reaching level 60 (now 70). At first I thought I could do it, but soon realized that leveling in EQ was extremely boring and find it ironic that the game has quest in the name when doing quests are usually pretty pointless. I got a Dark Elf Rogue to level 53 withough doing a single quest.

Then when I went to WoW (which I am still playing), I was able to reach the Cap level and have been there for about a month now. But now that I am the cap level, I realized that raiding is pretty boring and you have to be a hardcore kind-of player. I think it's been almost 2 weeks since I raided with my guild because I just do not look forward to them at all. That also goes for EQ's endgame. I am not that much of a hardcore player myself. Most raiding guilds EXPECT attendence during the week ends or late week-days. That means I have to plan my life around a video game which I find disturbing.

The PVP'ing is alright now that there are rewards, but I am sure I won't be reaping the rewards for a pry about a month from now, and I have found the increased PVP'ing very hard for my lower levels and I can never find a fair fight with my 60. We are either out-numbered or we out-number them.

Diamondspider · Apr 22, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by melanko

....The PVP'ing is alright now that there are rewards, but I am sure I won't be reaping the rewards for a pry about a month from now, and I have found the increased PVP'ing very hard for my lower levels and I can never find a fair fight with my 60. We are either out-numbered or we out-number them.

I don't like going to fansites and then knocking the competition as I find it tacky but I'll say on thing that is for sure true since I followed WoW from the day it was announced: PvP was an afterthought in WoW but it certainly wasn't in GW.

Grateful · Apr 23, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I very much appreciate your comments. I will, it seems, allow my order to go through <grin>. Even if I don't care for it, at least I'm not saddled with a $15 per month fee, so I can come and go at will.

Thanks again.

Darkmane · Apr 23, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

I think you've made a good decision. Although I did not beta test Everquest.. I did play it for over 7 years and then on and off there after. My first day on Everquest was quite interesting. I was a gnome enchanter. (one solusek ro, one of the original servers obviously). My first real adventure from the gnome homeland of steamfont to greater faydark was quickly met by mass murderous centurions. There were so many deaths that corpses were litterally littering the flora. Needless to day the zone was soon optimized by a few wandering guards and less 'groups of wandering centurion'. Few remember that your last name was a big event and only a GM could give you your last name. Or when rubicite armor was the most sought after item on eBay. Or when manastones were available and useful. Or when the haunted forest became haunted. Anyway. I can say that you will not be disapointed in the pve aspect of gameplay in GuildWars. There are plenty of missions and even more explorable areas. As stated above it all comes down to the people you end up partying with. Enjoy the game, if you liked eq at all, you will love GuildWars. The cutscenes are awsome ....

Just my opinion and my 2Cents

Galatea Orea · Apr 23, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Yes, it can be frustrating playing in a PvE team that isn't, well, a team. But if you don't figure out pretty quick how to be a team, chances are you'll be pretty quick dead. There are some missions you cannot successfully complete without superior teamplay. In fact, doing the missions over and over again with the same bunch of people is a great way to build a team. I noted with great interest that the first several BWE there were only a few people in guilds. But by the April BWE, the scene had reversed and nearly everyone was in a guild and only a few people were not. I would take this as a clear indicator of how important team play is going to be in Guild Wars.

Apr 22, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59	#1
Grateful Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Apr 2005	Guild Wars & Old EQ Hello, I've just preordered, as it seems many have, and I'm wondering if any of you who have played GW in the more recent betas have any notion of how the team combat feels in relation to the original few years of Everquest. I've been playin MMORPGs from EQ1, to DAOC, to AC, to WoW. The only two I stuck with for any length of time were EQ (almost five years) and WoW (about six months, and two level 60 toons). I had a real sense of teamwork when I played EQ that I felt was sorely lacking from WoW. Each class in EQ had unique abilities and skills, and using them was critical to the success of the team. It felt much less so in WoW. Alot of that game felt as though virtually any combination was fine, though of course a well-balanced team always did better. Unfortunately, too often the game felt like a free-for-all fest, with less skill and more simple, madcap melee. EQ1, until they started "kiddie-fying" it, felt more challenging and rewarding to spend time with others. Would you say that GW is closer to EQ1, with more of a focus on grouping and understanding your class, or to WoW, where it's primarily a single-player game with a lesser focus on team-based combat? I'm trying to rekindle my interest in MMORPGs. I don't want to get stuck on the Wheel of Acquisition (constantly hunting for better gear as a goal unto itself), but I ache for the challenge of a good dungeon crawl where you eke out a victory because your team was scrappy and determined. Thanks for any feedback

Apr 22, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04	#3
Kha Sins FTW! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Guild: Angel Sharks [AS]	It blows all other games away in every aspect. Enough said __________________

Apr 22, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39	#5
Weezer_Blue Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Just a Box in a Cage Guild: Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]	From your description of EverQuest (I haven't played it), Guild Wars is more akin to EQ than it is to WoW. GW and WoW are like oil and water. One is good to consume while the other will make you vomit... oh... and they don't mix... Of course, Guild Wars is different than EQ as well. Guild Wars is all about the endgame, while EQ was mostly having to do with the levels imbetween "newb" and the cap. Guild Wars has only 20 levels. If you'd like to learn more about this, see the sticky at the top of the page ... it explains it better than I could alone. __________________

Apr 22, 2005, 11:03 PM // 23:03	#2
Raumoheru Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2005	there is definitly a teamwork atmosphere, unless you goin a not so good group. you typically cant just go free-for-all or you will die, very fast.

Apr 22, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10	#4
Diamondspider Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005	I'd start by understanding that GW really is two separate but slightly connected games: 1) the PvE game, 2) the PvP game. Since you are talking about EQ1 (which I beta tested and played also), I'll just compared GW's PvE part which isn't too fair since the PvP is where a lot of effort went in on GW. Anyway, EQ1 vs GW PvE? I think it is fair to say that in both games you get out what you put in. In other words, when I joined a random group in EQ it was usually frustrating due to poor play and such and the same thing goes for GW. So, it comes down to who you team with. If you team with good players that you know and who select areas to play that are ideal for the group, then I have indeed experienced times where very tight teamwork and "codependancy" was very much needed in GW. This tends to happen later on in the leveling curve moreso. In EQ, however, the roles were more crisply defined while in GW it can be very hard to tell what the role of a player's setup is based on just the professions they pick. So, if you seek this level of tight and challenging gameplay in GW, I think it can be found, but it will require playing with friends you know well and also will be found more later in the leveling curve and my guess even more so in the expansions. I personally didn't like EQ much largely because the roles were TOO cookie-cutter and defined for my taste. However, it is possible to define roles by agreement with friends and get that in GW also if you wish. So, long and short, YES GW can provide the experience I think you are looking for, but just like in EQ it won't magically happen often in a random pick-up group.

Apr 23, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34	#9
Grateful Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Apr 2005	I very much appreciate your comments. I will, it seems, allow my order to go through <grin>. Even if I don't care for it, at least I'm not saddled with a $15 per month fee, so I can come and go at will. Thanks again.

Apr 23, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22	#10
Darkmane Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005	I think you've made a good decision. Although I did not beta test Everquest.. I did play it for over 7 years and then on and off there after. My first day on Everquest was quite interesting. I was a gnome enchanter. (one solusek ro, one of the original servers obviously). My first real adventure from the gnome homeland of steamfont to greater faydark was quickly met by mass murderous centurions. There were so many deaths that corpses were litterally littering the flora. Needless to day the zone was soon optimized by a few wandering guards and less 'groups of wandering centurion'. Few remember that your last name was a big event and only a GM could give you your last name. Or when rubicite armor was the most sought after item on eBay. Or when manastones were available and useful. Or when the haunted forest became haunted. Anyway. I can say that you will not be disapointed in the pve aspect of gameplay in GuildWars. There are plenty of missions and even more explorable areas. As stated above it all comes down to the people you end up partying with. Enjoy the game, if you liked eq at all, you will love GuildWars. The cutscenes are awsome .... Just my opinion and my 2Cents

Apr 23, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37	#11
Galatea Orea Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2005 Guild: Knights of Temerity Profession: R/Mo	Yes, it can be frustrating playing in a PvE team that isn't, well, a team. But if you don't figure out pretty quick how to be a team, chances are you'll be pretty quick dead. There are some missions you cannot successfully complete without superior teamplay. In fact, doing the missions over and over again with the same bunch of people is a great way to build a team. I noted with great interest that the first several BWE there were only a few people in guilds. But by the April BWE, the scene had reversed and nearly everyone was in a guild and only a few people were not. I would take this as a clear indicator of how important team play is going to be in Guild Wars.