leveling after 20? - Guild Wars Forums

happydragon · Jun 10, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Why do I only get skill pionts after 20. Thats so stupid! How am I supposed to raise other things? Why not give us Att. points?!?!?

Magus · Jun 10, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

because then everyone's characters' performance will be determined more by the amount of time they've spent playing rather than their team/attribute/skill setups and tactics.

epyonwing · Jun 10, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

I feel the same what is the point of lvling after 20 i mean come on a freaken skill point? I know we get more from a quest but there are not that many so how can a 5 skill character ascend all skills to lvl 12! Atleast give us SOME att. points!

happydragon · Jun 10, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

The whole game isnt about the amount of time you put into your character. Ha They says its skilled based so your going opposite of what everone else says. WE NEED ATT. points!

epyonwing · Jun 10, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

this game is not suppose to be on time remeber! It says on site that the game does not need to be played long and all will be able to enjoy it, and it is suppose to be on ur teams skill and setup!

Aaaaagh · Jun 10, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by epyonwing

I feel the same what is the point of lvling after 20 i mean come on a freaken skill point? I know we get more from a quest but there are not that many so how can a 5 skill character ascend all skills to lvl 12! Atleast give us SOME att. points!

No attribute points for you, quit reading and go play!

ihmurria · Jun 10, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

*cough*whiner*cough*

Seriously, why not go hunt down some major or superior runes instead - they affect yoru attribute points and can be balanced out with the appropriate vigor rune. There's a cap for a reason m'dear.

epyonwing · Jun 10, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

*cough*
uhhh... and now tell me how to get 5 skills to lvl 12 with runes that take off 75 hp per rune so how much is that (-375 hp) i dont have that much health and its hard to balance it with only one rune on a armor so now tell me how to get 5 skills to 12. Also whats gona be in the expansion pack uhhh... more map and a new guild battle arena uhhh.... wait this is no diffrenet its the same thing i did for a month this time for NO reason!

dargon · Jun 10, 2005, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Maybe you're not supposed to get 5 skills to 12, maybe you should focus on 3, possibly a 4th for utility purposes, ie if you're a ranger /ele a little bit of fire magic for conjur flame so you can boost your arrow damage with a firey string.

Keira Darkwind · Jun 10, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

If everyone could get 5 skills to level 12, there would be no diversity in builds, the idea is you have to specialise and decide what you want to do with your character.

With only 8 skills on your bar you can't try and do too many things at once anyway. Your character is much better for specialising.

You can get more att points by doing special quests. There are 2 I know of, one given by Vanyi in Droknar's Forge, the other one I think by someone in the desert, probably Augury Rock, I don't remember (first part of the quest is called "The Forgotten Ones" and it leads into the quest you want) Anyway, both these quests give an additional 15 att points.

Icarium · Jun 10, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by epyonwing

*cough*
uhhh... and now tell me how to get 5 skills to lvl 12 with runes that take off 75 hp per rune so how much is that (-375 hp) i dont have that much health and its hard to balance it with only one rune on a armor so now tell me how to get 5 skills to 12. Also whats gona be in the expansion pack uhhh... more map and a new guild battle arena uhhh.... wait this is no diffrenet its the same thing i did for a month this time for NO reason!

i dont want to sound rude so please forgive me, but did you read the back of the box? or anything online? did you look into this game at all before you bought it? i thought it was pretty clear, what the goals were with this game, and how they were to achive this. Anyways, there are a TON of ways to outfit your char. As i understand it the point is to get to lvl 20 then start on all your tweaking. Oh . . i dont want another bomb dropped on you, so ill warn you . . your only allowed 1 {elite} skill at a time also. do you have any? find one you really like, then build your char around that

i think ive spent more time tweaking and testing different things, and ideas, than i did on the PvE up till lvl 20 . . its so addicting . . . . .

aagian i didnt want to sound rude so please dont ake offence

likexx · Jun 10, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

I have posted a very long reply about the "lv 20 cap". I think everyone should take a look:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...375#post158375

I would say the GW focuses too much on PVP, TOO MUCH!
At first I really don't understand why they give so much limits on the game and don't let people getting stronger.
Now I understand a little bit. This game just want people get familiar with the character(by finishing the story) and gain some skills and attributes, then go to PVP.

Don't say "mission-based","skill-based","strategy". No one will do the mission if there is no exp or item reward. The skill variation is limited due to the low level setting. Strategy? What is that? Warrior=Tank, Mage=Magic caster, plus a Healer.

New map? What is that? If you cannot have any exp or better item, why wasting your time in some 3D models? Fighting 2 hours with nothing, is that fun?

I don't want to say this is bad or good. Maybe someone will like the mode.
I just feel pity for the game. It has all the potential to be the best game in the history. It has all the possibilities to be a much superior game than WOW/EQ/D2. However, the designer are trying their best to make the game ONLY for PVP, and they try their best to destroy all attractions for PVE.

eA-Zaku · Jun 10, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

However, the designer are trying their best to make the game ONLY for PVP, and they try their best to destroy all attractions for PVE.

PvE was never their main focus. And if that statement were entirely true (I'm not saying it's entirely false, either) then they would simply have it like the BWE where you start with everything instead of unlocking/templates.

Pandora's box · Jun 10, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

There is an ongoing discussion about pvp being the main part of this game and pve as being an option to 'farm' for pvp. I would like to repeat a suggestion I did earlier here:

The whole balancing problem exists only because of pvp. So here is the most obvious solution:
-Splitup the game into stricktly separated pve and pvp sections, meaning that pve chr's cant go into pvp, and cant trade or exchange items with pvp chr.s.
-Limit pvp the same way like its done now: at level 20.
-Allow pve only chr's to progress after level 20. Meaning they will gain health, attribute points, skill points, everything.
-Increase the droprate for pve only chr's since obviously gathering gear is one of the things they like very much

Tormunda · Jun 10, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

There is an ongoing discussion about pvp being the main part of this game and pve as being an option to 'farm' for pvp. I would like to repeat a suggestion I did earlier here:

The whole balancing problem exists only because of pvp. So here is the most obvious solution:
-Splitup the game into stricktly separated pve and pvp sections, meaning that pve chr's cant go into pvp, and cant trade or exchange items with pvp chr.s.
-Limit pvp the same way like its done now: at level 20.
-Allow pve only chr's to progress after level 20. Meaning they will gain health, attribute points, skill points, everything.
-Increase the droprate for pve only chr's since obviously gathering gear is one of the things they like very much

I seen your other post and agreed there also.
Your going to stir up hell with this idea but I really like it. Both camps have such huge fan bases that the game cannot current hope to please each camp with the way things are. Your ideas are radical but are a good basis with which to allow both camps to enjoy the game.

Nosajio · Jun 10, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by likexx

I have posted a very long reply about the "lv 20 cap". I think everyone should take a look:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...375#post158375

I would say the GW focuses too much on PVP, TOO MUCH!
At first I really don't understand why they give so much limits on the game and don't let people getting stronger.
Now I understand a little bit. This game just want people get familiar with the character(by finishing the story) and gain some skills and attributes, then go to PVP.

Don't say "mission-based","skill-based","strategy". No one will do the mission if there is no exp or item reward. The skill variation is limited due to the low level setting. Strategy? What is that? Warrior=Tank, Mage=Magic caster, plus a Healer.

New map? What is that? If you cannot have any exp or better item, why wasting your time in some 3D models? Fighting 2 hours with nothing, is that fun?

I don't want to say this is bad or good. Maybe someone will like the mode.
I just feel pity for the game. It has all the potential to be the best game in the history. It has all the possibilities to be a much superior game than WOW/EQ/D2. However, the designer are trying their best to make the game ONLY for PVP, and they try their best to destroy all attractions for PVE.

I think you kinda missed the point of the game.

It's called "GUILD WARS".

I think the designers made this pretty clear. See, I'm a PvE-er myself. I usually hate PvP -- having to fight some jerk with some stupid pot smoking reference for a name, who couldn't get past the letter "u" in the word "you."

But I value the idea of game balance more than anything else.

Us PvE-ers have to admit, balance is absolutely NOT a concept we like to practice. Look at Neverwinter Nights. You have abailities that outright kill in a player in one shot, classes that have no hope of being useful -- and thats all before the additions of the expansion "Hordes of the Underdark," where they increased the level cap, and added more one shot kill skills.
These were all fine and dandy if you were clubbing some NPC to death, but the PvP translation was terrible. It was just a bunch of unbalanced, overpowered, twinks pretending the game worked. These skills were meant for exploring. MORE POWER IS MEANT FOR MORE EXPLORING.
Unfortunately for PvE, "Guild Wars" focuses more on it's namesake. The PvE is there to give the PvP more depth. And it never made itself out to be anymore than that. As a PvE-er, I'm actually enjoying the PvP a lot, for its reasonable level of power (especially for the lack of instant kill options), and balance (which so far, it seems to be the most balanced game I've ever played out of any genre). Adding any more PvE elements, like too many Attribute points, or more extreme skills is just gonna ruin the beautiful balance, and make this game only wothwhile to infestation by the number crunching twinks.

I value the fact that my playing time is more about devising actual methods of attack, and not number-crunching to keep up with the average powergamer.

I think you guys are just trying to get a MMORPG experience out of a game meant to be PvP based.

Tormunda · Jun 10, 2005, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosajio

I think you guys are just trying to get a MMORPG experience out of a game meant to be PvP based.

WOOT!
The next GW feature!

It creates a new instance called the MMORPG instance.
Any character created there can only ever enter the MMORPG instance.
They get to level up as much as they are able to.. (Can't see you finding mobs enough to level much over 30s anyway).

: Ok I made this as a joke but actually that sounds kinda fun.

Lim-Dul · Jun 10, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Stop complaining, guys. The attributes should stay as they are. More attribute points would imbalance the game COMPLETELY. You have to focus on 3-4 attributes and that's all. After LVL20 you're hunting for godly equipment and more skills - you apply your best strategies and so forth. It isn't about pure PvP - it's also about PvE - more attribute points would imbalance it even more.
There is a lvl cap and it should remain in place. I find it WONDERFUL that GW allows you to level quickly and play with lvl20 chars later on. I mean - look at some real-life situations - you can't TRAIN yourself beyond all limits. =) GW != D&D where you walk the plains with 1000000hp uber-chars (which doesn't make any sense anyway).

Silvanos · Jun 10, 2005, 11:34 AM // 11:34

There is an ongoing discussion about pvp being the main part of this game and pve as being an option to 'farm' for pvp. I would like to repeat a suggestion I did earlier here:

The whole balancing problem exists only because of pvp. So here is the most obvious solution:
-Splitup the game into stricktly separated pve and pvp sections, meaning that pve chr's cant go into pvp, and cant trade or exchange items with pvp chr.s.
-Limit pvp the same way like its done now: at level 20.
-Allow pve only chr's to progress after level 20. Meaning they will gain health, attribute points, skill points, everything.
-Increase the droprate for pve only chr's since obviously gathering gear is one of the things they like very much

1. I see no balancing problem
2. No one could get a guild hall then cus of your first suggestion Seeing as PvP chars have no way to reach the Canthan Ferry
3. Allowing PvE Chars to progress after 20 will just promote those Powergamers who only play to say Look im a higher lvl then you therefore you must suck at the game.
4. People will ask why you can advance after 20 for PvE But not for PvP
5. You would be giving the Devs more work as in creating areas suitable for higher lvls because at this point in time a lvl 20 shouldnt have a hard time in any area
6. Increasing Droprates? Again more powergaming "Look what i have and you dont"
7. Whats the point of more skill points and everything it totally takes out the Thinking part of the game. Itd be like having 100 slots for your skills.

Lim-Dul · Jun 10, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

People - you have to understand that EACH game ends somewhere. There are lvl caps in EVERY SINGLE MMORPG. Actually GW is better than those MMORPGs because it gives you an option to play PvP AFTER fiishing the game for endless hours of additional fun.
The PvE part doesn't end when you reach lvl20 - you can still explore, find stuff, help your friends - just the same type of things that you do in other MMORPGs.

P.S. Splitting PvE and PvP completely is not a very good idea IMHO. The freedom of switching back and forth is nice. Maybe GW should be sold as two separate games rather than one? I really see no problem in playing after lvl20 - I have 3 lvl20 chars and I still play the game.

P.P.S. Besides - some pple want GW to become just like all the other MMORPGs - but that's not the point. GW SHOULD be an exception to the rule. If you like farming, high lvl caps, less PvP, more PvE, then choose e.g. WoW - I was a Beta Tester of WoW but quit and never touched the game again just because of the features you'd love to see in GW. There were thousands of FAQs and so on about GW before its release, there were Preview Events - if you have chosen GW and aren't happy with it then blame yourself - it ISN'T the standard type of MMORPG. It doesn't need to appeal to players who want to level endlessly etc. cause it is targetted at the OTHER part of the gaming community that didn't find anything they liked in any other MMORPG.

Jun 10, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42	#1
happydragon Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	leveling after 20? Why do I only get skill pionts after 20. Thats so stupid! How am I supposed to raise other things? Why not give us Att. points?!?!?

Jun 10, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51	#4
happydragon Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	Time? what the heck The whole game isnt about the amount of time you put into your character. Ha They says its skilled based so your going opposite of what everone else says. WE NEED ATT. points!

Jun 10, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40	#20
Lim-Dul Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe -> Poland -> Warsaw Guild: Alea Iacta Est [AIE] Profession: Me/W	People - you have to understand that EACH game ends somewhere. There are lvl caps in EVERY SINGLE MMORPG. Actually GW is better than those MMORPGs because it gives you an option to play PvP AFTER fiishing the game for endless hours of additional fun. The PvE part doesn't end when you reach lvl20 - you can still explore, find stuff, help your friends - just the same type of things that you do in other MMORPGs. P.S. Splitting PvE and PvP completely is not a very good idea IMHO. The freedom of switching back and forth is nice. Maybe GW should be sold as two separate games rather than one? I really see no problem in playing after lvl20 - I have 3 lvl20 chars and I still play the game. P.P.S. Besides - some pple want GW to become just like all the other MMORPGs - but that's not the point. GW SHOULD be an exception to the rule. If you like farming, high lvl caps, less PvP, more PvE, then choose e.g. WoW - I was a Beta Tester of WoW but quit and never touched the game again just because of the features you'd love to see in GW. There were thousands of FAQs and so on about GW before its release, there were Preview Events - if you have chosen GW and aren't happy with it then blame yourself - it ISN'T the standard type of MMORPG. It doesn't need to appeal to players who want to level endlessly etc. cause it is targetted at the OTHER part of the gaming community that didn't find anything they liked in any other MMORPG. Last edited by Lim-Dul; Jun 10, 2005 at 11:53 AM // 11:53..

Jun 10, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47	#2
Magus Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2005	because then everyone's characters' performance will be determined more by the amount of time they've spent playing rather than their team/attribute/skill setups and tactics.

Jun 10, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49	#3
epyonwing Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005	I feel the same what is the point of lvling after 20 i mean come on a freaken skill point? I know we get more from a quest but there are not that many so how can a 5 skill character ascend all skills to lvl 12! Atleast give us SOME att. points!

Jun 10, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13	#7
ihmurria Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Location: Canuckia	coughwhinercough Seriously, why not go hunt down some major or superior runes instead - they affect yoru attribute points and can be balanced out with the appropriate vigor rune. There's a cap for a reason m'dear.

Jun 10, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18	#8
epyonwing Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005	cough uhhh... and now tell me how to get 5 skills to lvl 12 with runes that take off 75 hp per rune so how much is that (-375 hp) i dont have that much health and its hard to balance it with only one rune on a armor so now tell me how to get 5 skills to 12. Also whats gona be in the expansion pack uhhh... more map and a new guild battle arena uhhh.... wait this is no diffrenet its the same thing i did for a month this time for NO reason!

Jun 10, 2005, 06:35 AM // 06:35	#9
dargon Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Seraphim Knights [TSK] Profession: R/	Maybe you're not supposed to get 5 skills to 12, maybe you should focus on 3, possibly a 4th for utility purposes, ie if you're a ranger /ele a little bit of fire magic for conjur flame so you can boost your arrow damage with a firey string.

Jun 10, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55	#10
Keira Darkwind Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Guild: Clan Arthur Profession: Mo/Me	If everyone could get 5 skills to level 12, there would be no diversity in builds, the idea is you have to specialise and decide what you want to do with your character. With only 8 skills on your bar you can't try and do too many things at once anyway. Your character is much better for specialising. You can get more att points by doing special quests. There are 2 I know of, one given by Vanyi in Droknar's Forge, the other one I think by someone in the desert, probably Augury Rock, I don't remember (first part of the quest is called "The Forgotten Ones" and it leads into the quest you want) Anyway, both these quests give an additional 15 att points.

Jun 10, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13	#12
likexx Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2005	I have posted a very long reply about the "lv 20 cap". I think everyone should take a look: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...375#post158375 I would say the GW focuses too much on PVP, TOO MUCH! At first I really don't understand why they give so much limits on the game and don't let people getting stronger. Now I understand a little bit. This game just want people get familiar with the character(by finishing the story) and gain some skills and attributes, then go to PVP. Don't say "mission-based","skill-based","strategy". No one will do the mission if there is no exp or item reward. The skill variation is limited due to the low level setting. Strategy? What is that? Warrior=Tank, Mage=Magic caster, plus a Healer. New map? What is that? If you cannot have any exp or better item, why wasting your time in some 3D models? Fighting 2 hours with nothing, is that fun? I don't want to say this is bad or good. Maybe someone will like the mode. I just feel pity for the game. It has all the potential to be the best game in the history. It has all the possibilities to be a much superior game than WOW/EQ/D2. However, the designer are trying their best to make the game ONLY for PVP, and they try their best to destroy all attractions for PVE.

Jun 10, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19	#14
Pandora's box Jungle Guide Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Netherlands Profession: Mo/W	There is an ongoing discussion about pvp being the main part of this game and pve as being an option to 'farm' for pvp. I would like to repeat a suggestion I did earlier here: The whole balancing problem exists only because of pvp. So here is the most obvious solution: -Splitup the game into stricktly separated pve and pvp sections, meaning that pve chr's cant go into pvp, and cant trade or exchange items with pvp chr.s. -Limit pvp the same way like its done now: at level 20. -Allow pve only chr's to progress after level 20. Meaning they will gain health, attribute points, skill points, everything. -Increase the droprate for pve only chr's since obviously gathering gear is one of the things they like very much

Jun 10, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20	#18
Lim-Dul Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe -> Poland -> Warsaw Guild: Alea Iacta Est [AIE] Profession: Me/W	Stop complaining, guys. The attributes should stay as they are. More attribute points would imbalance the game COMPLETELY. You have to focus on 3-4 attributes and that's all. After LVL20 you're hunting for godly equipment and more skills - you apply your best strategies and so forth. It isn't about pure PvP - it's also about PvE - more attribute points would imbalance it even more. There is a lvl cap and it should remain in place. I find it WONDERFUL that GW allows you to level quickly and play with lvl20 chars later on. I mean - look at some real-life situations - you can't TRAIN yourself beyond all limits. =) GW != D&D where you walk the plains with 1000000hp uber-chars (which doesn't make any sense anyway).

Jun 10, 2005, 11:34 AM // 11:34	#19
Silvanos Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2005	There is an ongoing discussion about pvp being the main part of this game and pve as being an option to 'farm' for pvp. I would like to repeat a suggestion I did earlier here: The whole balancing problem exists only because of pvp. So here is the most obvious solution: -Splitup the game into stricktly separated pve and pvp sections, meaning that pve chr's cant go into pvp, and cant trade or exchange items with pvp chr.s. -Limit pvp the same way like its done now: at level 20. -Allow pve only chr's to progress after level 20. Meaning they will gain health, attribute points, skill points, everything. -Increase the droprate for pve only chr's since obviously gathering gear is one of the things they like very much 1. I see no balancing problem 2. No one could get a guild hall then cus of your first suggestion Seeing as PvP chars have no way to reach the Canthan Ferry 3. Allowing PvE Chars to progress after 20 will just promote those Powergamers who only play to say Look im a higher lvl then you therefore you must suck at the game. 4. People will ask why you can advance after 20 for PvE But not for PvP 5. You would be giving the Devs more work as in creating areas suitable for higher lvls because at this point in time a lvl 20 shouldnt have a hard time in any area 6. Increasing Droprates? Again more powergaming "Look what i have and you dont" 7. Whats the point of more skill points and everything it totally takes out the Thinking part of the game. Itd be like having 100 slots for your skills.