The best Staff upgrade to you .. post opinion here plz :) - Guild Wars Forums

JedyKnight · Jun 15, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Well i have bought a collectors fire staff to use in pve .. smthing like energy +10, fire dmg 11-22 (req 9 fire) .. improves fire recharge and casting by 20% each .. now im buying a +5 insightfull head energy upgrade. Then what upgrade should i put on the wrapping? fortitude? enchanting? or what ?

Tkz in advance for all your advices

CryingWolf · Jun 15, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Dude it really depends on your play style! Do you play with alot of enchantments? Do you find yourself tanking a little? Physical or Elemental dmg? You asked a question that has as many answers as it does play styles. Tell us your play style and you may get better answers. I can only assume you are an E/? or a ?/E because of the fire!!!

kleps · Jun 15, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

insightful is probably the most common requested upgrade

The Shrodekill · Jun 15, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

i went w/ the insightful and fortitude on mine because im an elementalist and i find myself rushing in w/ phoenix and/or aftershock sometimes. its all up to your playing style. if u dont enchant much, dont get an enchanting upgrade, etc.

salatious · Jun 15, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

well do you use Vigor runes? are you at a loss of health?

are you a primary elementalist that has energy storage? or do you use this as a secondary with no energy storage?

like Cryingwolf stated to answer your question we need alittle bit more info on your toon

Ensign · Jun 15, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

In PvP right now the only upgrades I even consider using are Defensive and Enchanting. In PvE you might consider swapping in an Insightful Staff Head on any character that stands in the back and takes little damage. The rest of the upgrades are trash and should be either sold to the merchant or to other players, depending upon demand.

Peace,
-CxE

JedyKnight · Jun 15, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by salatious

well do you use Vigor runes? are you at a loss of health?

are you a primary elementalist that has energy storage? or do you use this as a secondary with no energy storage?

like Cryingwolf stated to answer your question we need alittle bit more info on your toon

Im a fire Ele/N, dont tank, always stay back and use fire+blood to leech life or death to make minions and leach life from minions .. i almost always use aura of restoration or fire atunnement. I dont use major runes, i have a major vigor+minor fire+minor energy storage. Stats are 12 fire .. 11 energy storage .. 10 blood/death. Default is 521 life and 69 energy .. So what u guys think now ?

kleps · Jun 15, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

vigor runes dont affect your health negatively at all, which is why they are sought after.

they add +30, +40, +50.

no one would buy them if they gave 0, -50 and -75hp.

Ensign · Jun 15, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JedyKnight

Im a fire Ele/N

If you only play in full groups, I'd consider Insightful of Defense. Otherwise Defensive of Defense. Elementalists have so much energy that the extra +5 from Insightful often feels wasted, but if you're energy hungry enough and stand in the back, why not?

Peace,
-CxE

salatious · Jun 15, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

well with what you have stated about your toon. i would go with a health increase wrap of fortitude +30 and take off the minor and add a major. this will increase your attacking and only lower you health by 20 points. and since you stay in the back it will not hurt you that much on the 20 points. adding another staff head +20 health will level you out.

the defense is really not needed since your a crowed contol style player and not a tanker.

energy storage is also a good idea. you can never have to much of it based on your play style im guessing that you cast alot with the Necromanacer as your second so getting that Energy to say 100 would not be a bad idea.

for me as a Air Elementalist i like to get up close on my enemys to shock and whirlwind them and keep them on there back as much as i can so i added alot of defense stacking on my toon which has been most helpfull.

CryingWolf · Jun 15, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Have to go with salatious on this one. Your toon is begging for a major, heck even a superior rune. Your play style says that. Insightful while nice for most really doesn't make or break a primary E. If you do find in most situations health is an issue then fortitude is the way to go. I like defense but then again I carry more then one set of armor for some situations.

ICURADik · Jun 15, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Defense just seems better overall. It's the only thing that will ALWAYS help you. If you think about that +20 health is hardly anything over the course of a battle where you may be taking thousands of damage. The same is true with that energy. Especially since you are an elemental primary. If you honestly find that you hardly ever take any damage, then going for the energy seems ok, but the armor is really your best bet.

The enchanment is also a very valid option, but is usually much better on shorter enchantments that are more energy intensive.

Ensign · Jun 16, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Defense is a better modifier than Fortitude in every possible way. There's really no nice way to put it - +health modifiers are trash, and their best use is to sell them to someone who doesn't know better.

I guess I would consider using a +30 health modifier if I was also using two superior attribute runes, in a build that only expected to fight air spike all day...nah, I'd still stick with defense, it's just that much better than fortitude.

Bah.

Anyway, fortitude is n00b bait. They like it because perfect fortitude mods are extremely rare, which makes it expensive, and expensive makes it cool. They also like it because of big numbers. 30 is a lot bigger than 5. Plus your health is listed on your screen. You can see your fortitude mod working immediately, it makes your health number larger! Armor is kinda nebulous, you know it's there and that more armor is better but I don't think most people actually know how it works. It doesn't matter that a perfect defense modifier actually gives you more health than a fortitude modifier, even before all the other benefits are taken into account - all of that's invisible.

Same logic applies to insightful mods, of course, except once you crunch numbers insightful is actually useful at times.

Anyway, moral of the story: use defensive staves of defense unless there's a really compelling reason not to.

Peace,
-CxE

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 16, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Personally as a caster... I almost always go for defensive of defensive... we caster just get target way too often... and 2 less energy from the usual focus is not so bad... even 5 energy don't exactly do anything when you are dead... I would however, carry 2 weapons equip... use the defensive first, and if someone use some energy denial or need emergency energy then I switch to energy items... and getting hit for 0 vs getting hit for 100 when you have 1000 hp... which last longer? the 0 of course... (although it probably won't happen that way, but you get the point)

btw... what is the highest defense anyway? Pretty sure the wrap is +5, what about the head? only seen +4 from one of my find. Going to surf a little...

JedyKnight · Jun 16, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Well i think for me the insightfull will be very usefull, so i guess the other upgrade will be defense wrapping. I was hoping using a major or superior that my life didnt drop below 500 but if that have to be .. i guess

stumpy · Jun 17, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

defensive will beat out fortitude anyday. Sure ... you can have an amazingly sought after +30 ... but big whoop. Defensive heads or wrappings reduce overall damage by a certain percentage (I saw a post somewhere that listed an example) it was like a 14% reduction for a defensive +4, I believe. If someone has that handy please post it for this person.

ex. You are going to get hit ... by rangers, by warriors ... say you take 40 damage from a warrior .... well there goes your fortitude ... but a defensive would cut that to 34-35 ... and still effectively benefit you. If you have 512 health ... take the above example and mulitply that 10 times = reduction of 50-60 health ... already better than your fortitude. And thats only after he hit ya for 400 (minus reduction = 340-350) .... seeing the benefit yet?

Insightful is utterly useless to an elementalist ... a plus 5 insightful is a waste of money as you already have 69 ... if you do have energy problems then you have to find another way to solve it because in battles that extra 5 is what ... a flare (<<< useless skill) ... so team up with a necro who can run a blood ritual to you or something ... you get it though insightful = useless to elementalist

enchanting is very beneficial to a elementalist especially an earth elementalist as earth magic contains many enchantments, and heck ... anybody use aura lol ... never leaves the bar so theres an extra 6-12 seconds on your aura of restoration (wrapping of enchanting 10-20% longer = 6-12 seconds) ... so if you do use enchantments go ahead and pick one up ... otherwise defensive is you best shot.

EvilWizard · Jun 17, 2005, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Ok reading this thread has changed my mindset towards armor and weaponry. I am a N/R and I went ahead and got all Scar Pattern armor because of the + energy modifiers on it (I am now at around 50) and am planning on using an Insightful Staff Head but dont really know what I should do for wrapping. I am at around 480 Health with a Major Vigor already attached and a Major Blood Magic. I try to cast from afar and because I am truly a support class I cast a ton of + energy regen spells on the rest of the group and burn energy making pet armies... Now I am thinking that maybe I should get the armor that is 60 AL and has the +15 vs Piercing atks modifiers on them vs the 60 AL scar patterns that have + energy bonuses... Tuff call (even though my Naked Necro does look goofy without real armor)

Jun 15, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17	#1
JedyKnight Academy Page Join Date: May 2005	The best Staff upgrade to you .. post opinion here plz :) Well i have bought a collectors fire staff to use in pve .. smthing like energy +10, fire dmg 11-22 (req 9 fire) .. improves fire recharge and casting by 20% each .. now im buying a +5 insightfull head energy upgrade. Then what upgrade should i put on the wrapping? fortitude? enchanting? or what ? Tkz in advance for all your advices

Jun 15, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34	#6
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	In PvP right now the only upgrades I even consider using are Defensive and Enchanting. In PvE you might consider swapping in an Insightful Staff Head on any character that stands in the back and takes little damage. The rest of the upgrades are trash and should be either sold to the merchant or to other players, depending upon demand. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Jun 15, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10	#10
salatious Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Richmond, Va Guild: Looking for a better Guild Profession: E/Mo	well with what you have stated about your toon. i would go with a health increase wrap of fortitude +30 and take off the minor and add a major. this will increase your attacking and only lower you health by 20 points. and since you stay in the back it will not hurt you that much on the 20 points. adding another staff head +20 health will level you out. the defense is really not needed since your a crowed contol style player and not a tanker. energy storage is also a good idea. you can never have to much of it based on your play style im guessing that you cast alot with the Necromanacer as your second so getting that Energy to say 100 would not be a bad idea. for me as a Air Elementalist i like to get up close on my enemys to shock and whirlwind them and keep them on there back as much as i can so i added alot of defense stacking on my toon which has been most helpfull. Last edited by salatious; Jun 15, 2005 at 09:14 PM // 21:14..

Jun 16, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34	#13
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	Defense is a better modifier than Fortitude in every possible way. There's really no nice way to put it - +health modifiers are trash, and their best use is to sell them to someone who doesn't know better. I guess I would consider using a +30 health modifier if I was also using two superior attribute runes, in a build that only expected to fight air spike all day...nah, I'd still stick with defense, it's just that much better than fortitude. Bah. Anyway, fortitude is n00b bait. They like it because perfect fortitude mods are extremely rare, which makes it expensive, and expensive makes it cool. They also like it because of big numbers. 30 is a lot bigger than 5. Plus your health is listed on your screen. You can see your fortitude mod working immediately, it makes your health number larger! Armor is kinda nebulous, you know it's there and that more armor is better but I don't think most people actually know how it works. It doesn't matter that a perfect defense modifier actually gives you more health than a fortitude modifier, even before all the other benefits are taken into account - all of that's invisible. Same logic applies to insightful mods, of course, except once you crunch numbers insightful is actually useful at times. Anyway, moral of the story: use defensive staves of defense unless there's a really compelling reason not to. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Jun 15, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08	#2
CryingWolf Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	Dude it really depends on your play style! Do you play with alot of enchantments? Do you find yourself tanking a little? Physical or Elemental dmg? You asked a question that has as many answers as it does play styles. Tell us your play style and you may get better answers. I can only assume you are an E/? or a ?/E because of the fire!!!

Jun 15, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24	#3
kleps Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: W/Mo	insightful is probably the most common requested upgrade

Jun 15, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28	#4
The Shrodekill Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	i went w/ the insightful and fortitude on mine because im an elementalist and i find myself rushing in w/ phoenix and/or aftershock sometimes. its all up to your playing style. if u dont enchant much, dont get an enchanting upgrade, etc.

Jun 15, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30	#5
salatious Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Richmond, Va Guild: Looking for a better Guild Profession: E/Mo	well do you use Vigor runes? are you at a loss of health? are you a primary elementalist that has energy storage? or do you use this as a secondary with no energy storage? like Cryingwolf stated to answer your question we need alittle bit more info on your toon

Jun 15, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54	#8
kleps Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: W/Mo	vigor runes dont affect your health negatively at all, which is why they are sought after. they add +30, +40, +50. no one would buy them if they gave 0, -50 and -75hp.

Jun 15, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09	#11
CryingWolf Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	Have to go with salatious on this one. Your toon is begging for a major, heck even a superior rune. Your play style says that. Insightful while nice for most really doesn't make or break a primary E. If you do find in most situations health is an issue then fortitude is the way to go. I like defense but then again I carry more then one set of armor for some situations.

Jun 15, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37	#12
ICURADik Banned Join Date: May 2005	Defense just seems better overall. It's the only thing that will ALWAYS help you. If you think about that +20 health is hardly anything over the course of a battle where you may be taking thousands of damage. The same is true with that energy. Especially since you are an elemental primary. If you honestly find that you hardly ever take any damage, then going for the energy seems ok, but the armor is really your best bet. The enchanment is also a very valid option, but is usually much better on shorter enchantments that are more energy intensive.

Jun 16, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48	#14
Vermilion Okeanos Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2005	Personally as a caster... I almost always go for defensive of defensive... we caster just get target way too often... and 2 less energy from the usual focus is not so bad... even 5 energy don't exactly do anything when you are dead... I would however, carry 2 weapons equip... use the defensive first, and if someone use some energy denial or need emergency energy then I switch to energy items... and getting hit for 0 vs getting hit for 100 when you have 1000 hp... which last longer? the 0 of course... (although it probably won't happen that way, but you get the point) btw... what is the highest defense anyway? Pretty sure the wrap is +5, what about the head? only seen +4 from one of my find. Going to surf a little...

Jun 16, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54	#15
JedyKnight Academy Page Join Date: May 2005	Well i think for me the insightfull will be very usefull, so i guess the other upgrade will be defense wrapping. I was hoping using a major or superior that my life didnt drop below 500 but if that have to be .. i guess

Jun 17, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32	#16
stumpy Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canucklehead BC, Canada Guild: Advanced Necro Undead Society	defensive will beat out fortitude anyday. Sure ... you can have an amazingly sought after +30 ... but big whoop. Defensive heads or wrappings reduce overall damage by a certain percentage (I saw a post somewhere that listed an example) it was like a 14% reduction for a defensive +4, I believe. If someone has that handy please post it for this person. ex. You are going to get hit ... by rangers, by warriors ... say you take 40 damage from a warrior .... well there goes your fortitude ... but a defensive would cut that to 34-35 ... and still effectively benefit you. If you have 512 health ... take the above example and mulitply that 10 times = reduction of 50-60 health ... already better than your fortitude. And thats only after he hit ya for 400 (minus reduction = 340-350) .... seeing the benefit yet? Insightful is utterly useless to an elementalist ... a plus 5 insightful is a waste of money as you already have 69 ... if you do have energy problems then you have to find another way to solve it because in battles that extra 5 is what ... a flare (<<< useless skill) ... so team up with a necro who can run a blood ritual to you or something ... you get it though insightful = useless to elementalist enchanting is very beneficial to a elementalist especially an earth elementalist as earth magic contains many enchantments, and heck ... anybody use aura lol ... never leaves the bar so theres an extra 6-12 seconds on your aura of restoration (wrapping of enchanting 10-20% longer = 6-12 seconds) ... so if you do use enchantments go ahead and pick one up ... otherwise defensive is you best shot.

Jun 17, 2005, 04:47 PM // 16:47	#17
EvilWizard Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Profession: N/R	Ok reading this thread has changed my mindset towards armor and weaponry. I am a N/R and I went ahead and got all Scar Pattern armor because of the + energy modifiers on it (I am now at around 50) and am planning on using an Insightful Staff Head but dont really know what I should do for wrapping. I am at around 480 Health with a Major Vigor already attached and a Major Blood Magic. I try to cast from afar and because I am truly a support class I cast a ton of + energy regen spells on the rest of the group and burn energy making pet armies... Now I am thinking that maybe I should get the armor that is 60 AL and has the +15 vs Piercing atks modifiers on them vs the 60 AL scar patterns that have + energy bonuses... Tuff call (even though my Naked Necro does look goofy without real armor)