wariors are to powerfull!!! - Guild Wars Forums

starwarsjedi · Jun 27, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

ok i just got this game and i cant see how this is posible!

i took a ranger and went to player vs player. I DIED SO FAST! i didnt see but mostly it was some wariors. how can i even play?? they just come up to me and bam im dead!!!
one time i thought okay im goin to win but again a warior comes up and kills me !! again and again.... he was sayoing stufff like HAHA NOOB and YOU SUCK!1~!

Before you say oh it probly didnt hapen that much let me tell you IT HAPPEND LIKE 50 OR 100 TIMES!!

if you ask me thiis game is messed up if a warior can just kill you so fast.

Amnisac · Jun 27, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

I think it has to do with the fact that you just got the game, and your jumping right into PvP. Make a Role Playing character first and go through the game, to get used to skills and strategies. I say this mainly because warriors are not that powerful damage-wise.

Algren Cole · Jun 27, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

you need to spend more time playing the game...this game rewards skill and intelligence over level and brawn....warriors are junk for PvP....if you know how to attack them

drowningfish999 · Jun 27, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

The problem is that rangers aren't meant to just stand there and take damage. You need to outmanuever the warrior by hitting him with something like cripple, then pulling back and smashing conditions on to him. Warriors are meant to charge up, and they will usually win in straight out combat.

Paine · Jun 27, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

My two cents:

Rangers have in in my opinion to low attack speed. It's compared with the warrior hammer attack speed. I'll tell you this:
( ALL RANGERS SUCK, YES ALL )

I've played since the betas and I know a lot about rangers. Rangers would fit you if you and your teammates are rangers combined with 1 spirit each. That's the only reason to play as a ranger.
Rangers suck overall. They're not even good as supporters. Why ?

* To low damage
* Low attackspeed
* No Shield
* Getting out of mana fast

Look at their special attribute called "expertise". It decreases the mana cost for their skills. Seriously, lower mana cost on your skills won't help you kill any enemies. Even if they had the warriors special attribute "Strength" with armor penetration they'd still suck.

The only reason I see to play as a ranger is if they increase the bow damage from 15-28 to 35-48 or even more.
Don't worry starwarsjedi. I can't see anything wrong with you. It's the rangers that are to sucky.

You may call me a "n00b" but everyone in my guild agrees with me.
A little advertisement:
Clan Takeda
Rank: 112

Elonis · Jun 27, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

not entirely true paine its the build you run and how you work your rangers

iv seen a group of 4 rangers with dual shot preps and OoV kill a war in less then a second and the monks couldnt even get a heal off before he droped.

not to mention my group runs a huge healing ball and the armor is actually the best in the game. 71 vs phsyical and 100 vs elements wars have 90ish vs physical and 81 vs elements.

not to mention if you have a good secondary you can make a nice condition spread char. true the attack speeds arnt the greatest but if you have a short bow and spam tigers fury you attack faster then any warrior can. its how you run your build and what support you have from your team. now 1v1 vs a warrior you can beat them it just requires tech.

also i have better luck wining in tombs with 5 rangers 3 monks then any other build.

Amnisac · Jun 27, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Here is my comment to you post paine.

( ALL RANGERS SUCK, YES ALL )
Just by this I know you know nothing about rangers, and your following comments will be incorrect.

Rangers suck overall. They're not even good as supporters.
Interuption, traps, not to mention we can inflict EVERY kind of condition.

* To low damage:
We only deal low damage if you use the ranger incorrectly. I can kill enemies faster than most of my elementalist friends can.
* Low attackspeed:
We have plenty of skills at our disposal to increase attack speed, and arrow flight time.
* No Shield:
Plenty of other classes don't use shields, we have no disadvantage by not having one.
* Getting out of mana fast:
Expertise.

Look at their special attribute called "expertise". It decreases the mana cost for their skills. Seriously, lower mana cost on your skills won't help you kill any enemies. Even if they had the warriors special attribute "Strength" with armor penetration they'd still suck.:
Expertise allows us to use more skills in a shorter ammount of time than any other class.

You may call me a "n00b" but everyone in my guild agrees with me.
A little advertisement:
Clan Takeda
Rank: 112:
It is apperant now that rank has nothing to do with knowldge of the game.

Reiden Argrock · Jun 27, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

OOO!!
2 cents is damn right, but you are right about rangers are not meant for straight out fighting

pin down and poison, along with some traps, and a ranger team will win most of the time

low energy? expertise reduces energy cost, and because most ranger skills are instant recharge or recharge in a few secs, you can cast them quite quickly and that is why rangers need expertise, plus it increases effectiveness of all their traps and modifiers like poison and ignite.

smitty-gw · Jun 27, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by starwarsjedi

ok i just got this game and i cant see how this is posible!

i took a ranger and went to player vs player. I DIED SO FAST! i didnt see but mostly it was some wariors. how can i even play?? they just come up to me and bam im dead!!!
one time i thought okay im goin to win but again a warior comes up and kills me !! again and again.... he was sayoing stufff like HAHA NOOB and YOU SUCK!1~!

Before you say oh it probly didnt hapen that much let me tell you IT HAPPEND LIKE 50 OR 100 TIMES!!

if you ask me thiis game is messed up if a warior can just kill you so fast.

Three problems here:

1) Just got the game and neither knows how to play the game nor has any worthwhile pvp skills unlocked. (Can't succeed).

2) Does not have the patience and it seems, isn't willing. (Won't succeed).

3) Atrocious elementary spelling and grammar accompanied by a blatant overuse of emotes.

Algren Cole · Jun 27, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

* To low damage

I'm doing The Wilds right now....my Bow hits for 42-50 dmg without any skills...throw in a barbed trap and a fire trap and Ignite Arrows and I'm doing 100+ dmg per hit....

Quote:

* Low attackspeed

Tigers Fury, Read the Wind, Favorable Winds,

Quote:

* No Shield

why would you need a shield? you aren't supposed to be on the front lines. Monks/Mesmers/Elementalists/Necromancers don't use shields either

Quote:

* Getting out of mana fast*

I only have 27 Mana...and rarely do I ever run out...and if you DO run out of Mana...Marksmans Wager fixes that problem.

You just don't know how to play a ranger....

Howling Wind · Jun 27, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Once you get all the right skills you should be handling warriors much more efficiently. In PvP Rangesr are good at a few things, mainly a support class to help all other classes, 2nd stopping mesmers and warriors, 3rd Landing that interupt on a monk casting rez and others (like spirit spamming, trapping etc)

If you just jumped in to pvp straight away (i'm assuming ascalon area), you have hardly any good pvp skills to do anything good apart from just do dmg.

GranDeWun · Jun 27, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

My main char is ranger, but I was playing some PvP with a warrior last night and by odd chance was on a team of 3 W / 1 E vs 3 R / 1E. The ranger team cleaned our clocks 14 to 2. Pin down, crippling shot, traps...it was ugly. I could never get my swordsman to grips for long enough to kill one...

Smashin · Jun 27, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

rangers PWN man u can slowly drain the shit out of people pin em down then just keep that poison arrow on em specially if u have kindle arrows + attack speed boost like lightning reflexes or that other one or u could have warrior side for attack speed their so awesome thats why a team of rngs pwn their spirits done bother them and they hurt others and they especially rock if u focus fire

Smashin · Jun 27, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

and did u mean rank or fame? cause 112 fame sorta SUCKS most people who have rank 5+ these days got alot oftheir fame when it was ez as hell to get

Smashin · Jun 27, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

i hate newbs who decide to post yet they know nothing

drowningfish999 · Jun 27, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

If rangers suck for the reasons of:
* To low damage
* Low attackspeed
* No Shield
* Getting out of mana fast

Then I guess heal/protect monks suck too. They barely do any damage if they even attack, they have low attack speed with their pathetic wands. They gain no advantage with shields, and will almost always run out of mana. And big whoop, they can heal, every class can heal. (Being sarcastic incase someone didn't know).

Those reasons are absoultely 100% biased towards warriors, thats the only class that can easily fit all 4 of those reasons, even though warriors are't too great at damage and almost never use mana. And if your guild all agrees with you that "rangers suck" (which I highly doubt) then I'm guessing your either a liar, or rank means absoultely nothing.

XENOGEARSHARINGAN · Jun 27, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

i have 3 char and my first was a ranger and i love him becaouse of the unique ness of their skills. if you know how to use a ranger right you can easily take out warrior. and expertise lowers alot of skills low cost considering most ranger elites only cost 5 energy. barrage is a good example which combine with lighting reflexes, conjure flame, you cand deal masive damge and fire damge, that the wayi got around not being able to use iginte or kindle arrows. and in pvp if you have some organsed rangers say 4 if they have at least 10 expetise they can lay about 10 traps each before they expire if if the other teams wariors were to walk into that that be to much damge and they be dead almost instanly if not they would be burning, cripled, bleeding, knocked down, and like most rangers they would folow up wiht poison arrow, and maybe if they wer mesmer secondary epidemic

Ensign · Jun 27, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

It's compared with the warrior hammer attack speed.

A bow is 14% slower than a hammer, and deals 20% less damage per hit. Thus without considering any skills or buffs, one would conclude that the ranger deals roughly 70% of warrior damage. You can add more to the model, but the end result doesn't change much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

I've played since the betas and I know a lot about rangers.

Then you know that they've fluctuated in power heavily, from nigh-unplayable to a concensus best class in the game. They're somewhere in between now, about where they should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

Rangers would fit you if you and your teammates are rangers combined with 1 spirit each.

This doesn't make any sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

* To low damage / * Low attackspeed

70% of what a warrior or elementalist will deal over time. For a class with an order of magnitude more utility, this is bad why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

* No Shield

Eh? How exactly does this hurt the ranger in PvP? So you lose out on some armor and defensive buffs. Should we care? You're a low priority target, and even if you do get spiked you have the best spike-resistance armor in the game.

Or, from the other direction, hammer warriors don't get shields either. That certainly has held them back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

* Getting out of mana fast

Ok, now I know you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Rangers have the smoothest energy in the game once you pump up your Expertise. You have to be doing something pretty extreme to run out of energy in under 30 seconds as a Ranger. No, running Tiger's Fury constantly, stacking a prep and using nothing but attack skills is not extreme.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

Look at their special attribute called "expertise".

Yep, Rangers have the hands-down best primary attribute in the game. It's downright insane at higher levels - any good ranger will become intimately familiar with their Expertise break points for maximum effectiveness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

Seriously, lower mana cost on your skills won't help you kill any enemies.

You're joking, right? What, do you try and kill things using normal attacks? Do you wand your enemies to death when you play an elementalist? Didn't think so. You use skills. If you're playing a ranger, you should be milking Expertise for all its worth and activating skills faster than any other class.

If you're not, just what exactly are you doing with your Ranger?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

Even if they had the warriors special attribute "Strength" with armor penetration they'd still suck.

Actually, if the ranger had strength instead of expertise they *would* suck. Unless you really want Strength skills at high levels for your build, Strength is a dump point attribute. The damage bonus is negligible. Why anyone would ever want that over the best energy management attribute in the game, I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

The only reason I see to play as a ranger is if they increase the bow damage from 15-28 to 35-48 or even more.

This is simply because you have absolutely no clue how to either build or play a ranger. You boost the damage output of the ranger by 20%, and they would replace warriors and elementalists as the damage dealers of choice. This isn't idle speculation at all - before they nerfed ranger damage they *were* the best damage dealers in the game. Now they're simply very good single-target damage dealers with a lot more utility. Why this is a bad thing, I still do not understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

Clan Takeda
Rank: 112

Further proof that both the level of knowledge in this game, and the level of competition on the ladder are very, very poor.

If you just jumped into Ascalon Arena and got beat up there by warriors, that's not surprising. Rangers are a particularly weak class at low levels, as they need Expertise to truly shine and that attribute is horribly backloaded. Warriors on the other hand are nice and steady, about as good at level 3 as they'll be at level 20. Warriors are the absolute kings of Ascalon Arena, no question.

You're not going to be a strong character until level 15, and you won't even approach the power of the other classes until you're close to ascension and doing the attribute point quests. Just take your lumps early and enjoy the distinct feeling of progress that you'll get as you level.

Peace,
-CxE

toastgodsupreme · Jun 27, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

rangers get a lot of good skills later on in the game. a waste IMO that some of the most fun to use skills for any class are at the end of the game.

warriors are not overpowered though. they're easily stopped. pin down alone will give you a nice edge against them.

edit: stack bleeding and poison arrow on them to make them sweat

Paine · Jun 27, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Amnisac & Ensign, you still can't release the fact that rangers suck.
Why?
Because you're one of them. You may think and experiment with different kind of tactics but you can never kill someone in 1 vs 1, and if you can't survive in 1 vs 1 then you're weak. You'll probably get it when you get royaly owned one day and realise that you're not doing a shit to help your team. Your arguments don't make any sense.
Get yourself a monk and support your teammates orderly, that's much more better.

Jun 27, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43	#1
starwarsjedi Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2005	wariors are to powerfull!!! ok i just got this game and i cant see how this is posible! i took a ranger and went to player vs player. I DIED SO FAST! i didnt see but mostly it was some wariors. how can i even play?? they just come up to me and bam im dead!!! one time i thought okay im goin to win but again a warior comes up and kills me !! again and again.... he was sayoing stufff like HAHA NOOB and YOU SUCK!1~! Before you say oh it probly didnt hapen that much let me tell you IT HAPPEND LIKE 50 OR 100 TIMES!! if you ask me thiis game is messed up if a warior can just kill you so fast.

Jun 27, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53	#5
Paine Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan Plus [Plus]	My two cents: Rangers have in in my opinion to low attack speed. It's compared with the warrior hammer attack speed. I'll tell you this: ( ALL RANGERS SUCK, YES ALL ) I've played since the betas and I know a lot about rangers. Rangers would fit you if you and your teammates are rangers combined with 1 spirit each. That's the only reason to play as a ranger. Rangers suck overall. They're not even good as supporters. Why ? * To low damage * Low attackspeed * No Shield * Getting out of mana fast Look at their special attribute called "expertise". It decreases the mana cost for their skills. Seriously, lower mana cost on your skills won't help you kill any enemies. Even if they had the warriors special attribute "Strength" with armor penetration they'd still suck. The only reason I see to play as a ranger is if they increase the bow damage from 15-28 to 35-48 or even more. Don't worry starwarsjedi. I can't see anything wrong with you. It's the rangers that are to sucky. You may call me a "n00b" but everyone in my guild agrees with me. A little advertisement: Clan Takeda Rank: 112 Last edited by Paine; Jun 27, 2005 at 05:57 PM // 17:57..

Jun 27, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06	#6
Elonis Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Some break in the fabric of reality.	not entirely true paine its the build you run and how you work your rangers iv seen a group of 4 rangers with dual shot preps and OoV kill a war in less then a second and the monks couldnt even get a heal off before he droped. not to mention my group runs a huge healing ball and the armor is actually the best in the game. 71 vs phsyical and 100 vs elements wars have 90ish vs physical and 81 vs elements. not to mention if you have a good secondary you can make a nice condition spread char. true the attack speeds arnt the greatest but if you have a short bow and spam tigers fury you attack faster then any warrior can. its how you run your build and what support you have from your team. now 1v1 vs a warrior you can beat them it just requires tech. also i have better luck wining in tombs with 5 rangers 3 monks then any other build. Last edited by Elonis; Jun 27, 2005 at 06:12 PM // 18:12..

Jun 27, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07	#7
Amnisac Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Marhan's Grotto Guild: Running Makes It Worse [Run] Profession: R/E	Here is my comment to you post paine. ( ALL RANGERS SUCK, YES ALL ) Just by this I know you know nothing about rangers, and your following comments will be incorrect. Rangers suck overall. They're not even good as supporters. Interuption, traps, not to mention we can inflict EVERY kind of condition. * To low damage: We only deal low damage if you use the ranger incorrectly. I can kill enemies faster than most of my elementalist friends can. * Low attackspeed: We have plenty of skills at our disposal to increase attack speed, and arrow flight time. * No Shield: Plenty of other classes don't use shields, we have no disadvantage by not having one. * Getting out of mana fast: Expertise. Look at their special attribute called "expertise". It decreases the mana cost for their skills. Seriously, lower mana cost on your skills won't help you kill any enemies. Even if they had the warriors special attribute "Strength" with armor penetration they'd still suck.: Expertise allows us to use more skills in a shorter ammount of time than any other class. You may call me a "n00b" but everyone in my guild agrees with me. A little advertisement: Clan Takeda Rank: 112: It is apperant now that rank has nothing to do with knowldge of the game. Last edited by Amnisac; Jun 27, 2005 at 06:09 PM // 18:09..

Jun 27, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50	#20
Paine Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan Plus [Plus]	Amnisac & Ensign, you still can't release the fact that rangers suck. Why? Because you're one of them. You may think and experiment with different kind of tactics but you can never kill someone in 1 vs 1, and if you can't survive in 1 vs 1 then you're weak. You'll probably get it when you get royaly owned one day and realise that you're not doing a shit to help your team. Your arguments don't make any sense. Get yourself a monk and support your teammates orderly, that's much more better. Last edited by Paine; Jun 27, 2005 at 07:53 PM // 19:53..

Jun 27, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46	#2
Amnisac Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Marhan's Grotto Guild: Running Makes It Worse [Run] Profession: R/E	I think it has to do with the fact that you just got the game, and your jumping right into PvP. Make a Role Playing character first and go through the game, to get used to skills and strategies. I say this mainly because warriors are not that powerful damage-wise.

Jun 27, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47	#3
Algren Cole Banned Join Date: Jun 2005	you need to spend more time playing the game...this game rewards skill and intelligence over level and brawn....warriors are junk for PvP....if you know how to attack them

Jun 27, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49	#4
drowningfish999 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Awakened Tempest [aT]	The problem is that rangers aren't meant to just stand there and take damage. You need to outmanuever the warrior by hitting him with something like cripple, then pulling back and smashing conditions on to him. Warriors are meant to charge up, and they will usually win in straight out combat.

Jun 27, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11	#8
Reiden Argrock Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Arizona Guild: Shadowstorm Mercenaries	OOO!! 2 cents is damn right, but you are right about rangers are not meant for straight out fighting pin down and poison, along with some traps, and a ranger team will win most of the time low energy? expertise reduces energy cost, and because most ranger skills are instant recharge or recharge in a few secs, you can cast them quite quickly and that is why rangers need expertise, plus it increases effectiveness of all their traps and modifiers like poison and ignite.

Jun 27, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22	#11
Howling Wind Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Down The Road Profession: R/Mo	Once you get all the right skills you should be handling warriors much more efficiently. In PvP Rangesr are good at a few things, mainly a support class to help all other classes, 2nd stopping mesmers and warriors, 3rd Landing that interupt on a monk casting rez and others (like spirit spamming, trapping etc) If you just jumped in to pvp straight away (i'm assuming ascalon area), you have hardly any good pvp skills to do anything good apart from just do dmg.

Jun 27, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31	#12
GranDeWun Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005	My main char is ranger, but I was playing some PvP with a warrior last night and by odd chance was on a team of 3 W / 1 E vs 3 R / 1E. The ranger team cleaned our clocks 14 to 2. Pin down, crippling shot, traps...it was ugly. I could never get my swordsman to grips for long enough to kill one...

Jun 27, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39	#13
Smashin Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2005	rangers PWN man u can slowly drain the shit out of people pin em down then just keep that poison arrow on em specially if u have kindle arrows + attack speed boost like lightning reflexes or that other one or u could have warrior side for attack speed their so awesome thats why a team of rngs pwn their spirits done bother them and they hurt others and they especially rock if u focus fire

Jun 27, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42	#14
Smashin Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2005	and did u mean rank or fame? cause 112 fame sorta SUCKS most people who have rank 5+ these days got alot oftheir fame when it was ez as hell to get

Jun 27, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43	#15
Smashin Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2005	i hate newbs who decide to post yet they know nothing

Jun 27, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50	#16
drowningfish999 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Awakened Tempest [aT]	If rangers suck for the reasons of: * To low damage * Low attackspeed * No Shield * Getting out of mana fast Then I guess heal/protect monks suck too. They barely do any damage if they even attack, they have low attack speed with their pathetic wands. They gain no advantage with shields, and will almost always run out of mana. And big whoop, they can heal, every class can heal. (Being sarcastic incase someone didn't know). Those reasons are absoultely 100% biased towards warriors, thats the only class that can easily fit all 4 of those reasons, even though warriors are't too great at damage and almost never use mana. And if your guild all agrees with you that "rangers suck" (which I highly doubt) then I'm guessing your either a liar, or rank means absoultely nothing.

Jun 27, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54	#17
XENOGEARSHARINGAN Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: AUDE Profession: R/	i have 3 char and my first was a ranger and i love him becaouse of the unique ness of their skills. if you know how to use a ranger right you can easily take out warrior. and expertise lowers alot of skills low cost considering most ranger elites only cost 5 energy. barrage is a good example which combine with lighting reflexes, conjure flame, you cand deal masive damge and fire damge, that the wayi got around not being able to use iginte or kindle arrows. and in pvp if you have some organsed rangers say 4 if they have at least 10 expetise they can lay about 10 traps each before they expire if if the other teams wariors were to walk into that that be to much damge and they be dead almost instanly if not they would be burning, cripled, bleeding, knocked down, and like most rangers they would folow up wiht poison arrow, and maybe if they wer mesmer secondary epidemic

Jun 27, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46	#19
toastgodsupreme Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: United States Profession: Me/	rangers get a lot of good skills later on in the game. a waste IMO that some of the most fun to use skills for any class are at the end of the game. warriors are not overpowered though. they're easily stopped. pin down alone will give you a nice edge against them. edit: stack bleeding and poison arrow on them to make them sweat