Zealous String - Guild Wars Forums

Ripper · Jun 06, 2005, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Is there such thing as a zealous string with a 5 - 1 ratio? I've never come across one before. Just curious if anyone else has.

Asplode · Jun 06, 2005, 11:59 AM // 11:59

For what I've heard and seen, Zealous only comes in 1:1, sorry. The only reason vampiric comes with higher than 1:1 is because the ratio of health to energy is about 8:1, so 1 pip of health degen is worth less than 1 pip of energy degen.

Blight And Ruin · Jun 25, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Cool, that answers a question I had regarding Zealous bow strings.

It seems that given the Ranger's smaller EN pool and lesser EN regen that one pip of EN degen hurts really badly.

Which raises the question: do zealous bow strings have a use? They seem to kinda suck. Even if a Ranger is hitting every time for one point of EN, unless you are attacking faster than the normal fire rate of most bows *and* hitting pretty much every time, you are regaining less EN with a Zealous string than you would from getting that pip of EN regen back by swapping the Zealous bow out, or about the same EN regen. In which case, why not have a bow string that actually does something for you?

Is the Zealous string just such a situational use item or only good for a specific build or something, such that I don't see their use?

Thanato · Jun 25, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

i'd say it is situational, although a decent sized mob in pve, along with the use of barrage, can get you back quite a bit of energy

in one of my builds, my zealous shortbow is a godsend

it all depends what you use ti for.

Blight And Ruin · Jun 25, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I havent really played with it, yet. Just messing around with a Ranger atm. I have two medium-speed, medium range bows with Zealous mods that I picked up. I don't have one in a bow with a high rate of fire, so I just wasn't seeing the EN math working in my favor. If I could get nice halfmoon or shortbow I would probably start playing with it again.

Amnisac · Jun 25, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

I always use zealous on my bows. With the skills I use, and my ammount of expertise, I never drop below 15, even if I spam bow attacks. (I have 31 energy BTW.)

Blight And Ruin · Jul 01, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24

I heard from someone today that Zealous could come in varieties other than 1 : -1. Was this person wrong?

I had understood it was only 1 : -1.

Silmor · Jul 01, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

To those who think losing one pip of energy regen really hurts when putting on a zealous bowstring, consider the fact that every pip of energy regen stands for only one energy every three seconds. So basically if you're shooting arrows at a rate faster than once every three seconds, you win out - very easy to accomplish with most bows, and any attack speed buff will just improve your energy regen. This benefit is increased even more by attacks like Barrage that hit multiple targets, as noted earlier.

Outside of combat you can always switch to a non-zealous bow for swifter recovery of your total energy should you want to.

Tellani Artini · Jul 01, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

To me, the point is not that you gain energy per hit, but that your target loses energy per hit.

Sledge · Jul 01, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

As a w/r, that 1 pip hit hurts.

My set up is glad armor for a +8 to my total energy when I play ranger in hvy armor

. 2 pip energy heal.

Zealous kinda doesn't work to my advantage in my experiance.

AirForge · Jul 01, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

I only use zealous bow stings on high rate of fire bows such as short bows. It seems to work really well for me. I think the reason some people don???t realize how much it helps is because you really cant focus you attention on how much energy you are receiving while fighting. Mathematically the bow sting is much better then the 1 pip penalty.

Quote:

To me, the point is not that you gain energy per hit, but that your target loses energy per hit.

I don't think this is true.

Blight And Ruin · Jul 02, 2005, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

To those who think losing one pip of energy regen really hurts when putting on a zealous bowstring, consider the fact that every pip of energy regen stands for only one energy every three seconds. So basically if you're shooting arrows at a rate faster than once every three seconds, you win out - very easy to accomplish with most bows, and any attack speed buff will just improve your energy regen.

Here's why I was wondering: (cribbed from http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ies-id1092.php)

Flatbow refire 2.0 seconds range 100' time to target 1.0 seconds
Half Moon refire 2.0 seconds range 60' time to target 0.65 seconds

Basically, unless you are using a half moon or short bow, without things like Double Shot, Barrage or an attack speed buff (all of which cost energy) you don't even get a chance to hit more than once every three seconds.

It may be that good Rangers hit much more frequently than that, but based on this data trading a pip of regen doesn't seem like a totally hot idea.

Silmor · Jul 02, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23

With a refire rate of 2.0 seconds, wouldn't that mean you shoot 3 arrows in 6 seconds hence getting 3 energy with zealous as opposed to 2 energy without? Time to target is inconsequential, you're already refiring while your arrow is still airborne.

That's just a rather dry approach though: there's time lost in preparations, putting down traps, switching targets, repositioning etc. which reduces your plinking average considerably. Ofcourse you could switch to non-zealous whenever you're not plinking, but that's not always practical. Still, a ranger who knows what he/she's doing will not lose out with zealous, and will typically use speed buffs and/or barrage to get the most out of the string. With high enough expertise barrage cost gets reduced to 2 energy, which with zealous lets you spam it continuously.

Finally, the proposition that a W/R is hurt more by one less regen than a primary ranger is a little skewed, it assumes that you're not actively attacking targets - in that situation the W/R loses half his regen while the primary ranger only loses a third. However both lose out 1 energy per 3 seconds, and since zealous can provide 1 energy per 2 seconds (more with attack speed buffs, which a warrior/ranger has plenty of choice in) the increase in energy regeneration through zealous actually benefits a W/R more than a primary ranger (relative to base regen).

Blight And Ruin · Jul 02, 2005, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

With a refire rate of 2.0 seconds, wouldn't that mean you shoot 3 arrows in 6 seconds hence getting 3 energy with zealous as opposed to 2 energy without? Time to target is inconsequential, you're already refiring while your arrow is still airborne.

I could be wrong about this but I believe you get the EN on a (successful) hit only. Time to target does matter, because you gain EN (or not) at the end of a 2.65 sec process, and only if you hit.

Sholtar · Jul 02, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blight And Ruin

I could be wrong about this but I believe you get the EN on a (successful) hit only. Time to target does matter, because you gain EN (or not) at the end of a 2.65 sec process, and only if you hit.

Yes, but that only applies to the first hit. After the first hit, the flight time no longer matters, all that matters is the refire rate. This is because you continually fire every 2 seconds, so after the first flight time, flight time is inconsequential.

DarX · Jul 02, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

havent come across it but probably think it is 1:1

MCS · Jul 02, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

:O Why are we having this discussion.

AFAIK you do no steal energy like a vampiric, you simply gain it if you hit.

If you're LANDING an attack once every 3 seconds it's like having no effect at all. You have to hit more than that.

On a bow it's worthless imo. The regen is barely noticable and all it takes is a couple misses on some guy while he runs and you've just missed enough for half the battle.

This doesn't even factor in being knocked down, running, blinded, any spell that causes you to miss (tactics, aegis) I'm talking about these from a PvP standpoint btw.

Hope that helped.

Paine · Jul 02, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

bump...

Jun 06, 2005, 11:57 AM // 11:57	#1
Ripper Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005	Zealous String Is there such thing as a zealous string with a 5 - 1 ratio? I've never come across one before. Just curious if anyone else has.

Jul 01, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00	#10
Sledge Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denver, Co Guild: Doom Brigade Profession: E/Me	As a w/r, that 1 pip hit hurts. My set up is glad armor for a +8 to my total energy when I play ranger in hvy armor . 2 pip energy heal. Zealous kinda doesn't work to my advantage in my experiance. Last edited by Sledge; Jul 01, 2005 at 02:11 AM // 02:11..

Jul 02, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23	#13
Silmor Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2005	With a refire rate of 2.0 seconds, wouldn't that mean you shoot 3 arrows in 6 seconds hence getting 3 energy with zealous as opposed to 2 energy without? Time to target is inconsequential, you're already refiring while your arrow is still airborne. That's just a rather dry approach though: there's time lost in preparations, putting down traps, switching targets, repositioning etc. which reduces your plinking average considerably. Ofcourse you could switch to non-zealous whenever you're not plinking, but that's not always practical. Still, a ranger who knows what he/she's doing will not lose out with zealous, and will typically use speed buffs and/or barrage to get the most out of the string. With high enough expertise barrage cost gets reduced to 2 energy, which with zealous lets you spam it continuously. Finally, the proposition that a W/R is hurt more by one less regen than a primary ranger is a little skewed, it assumes that you're not actively attacking targets - in that situation the W/R loses half his regen while the primary ranger only loses a third. However both lose out 1 energy per 3 seconds, and since zealous can provide 1 energy per 2 seconds (more with attack speed buffs, which a warrior/ranger has plenty of choice in) the increase in energy regeneration through zealous actually benefits a W/R more than a primary ranger (relative to base regen). Last edited by Silmor; Jul 02, 2005 at 02:25 AM // 02:25..

Jun 06, 2005, 11:59 AM // 11:59	#2
Asplode Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Guild: Rebel Rising [rawr]	For what I've heard and seen, Zealous only comes in 1:1, sorry. The only reason vampiric comes with higher than 1:1 is because the ratio of health to energy is about 8:1, so 1 pip of health degen is worth less than 1 pip of energy degen.

Jun 25, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31	#3
Blight And Ruin Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Never guilded ;-)	Cool, that answers a question I had regarding Zealous bow strings. It seems that given the Ranger's smaller EN pool and lesser EN regen that one pip of EN degen hurts really badly. Which raises the question: do zealous bow strings have a use? They seem to kinda suck. Even if a Ranger is hitting every time for one point of EN, unless you are attacking faster than the normal fire rate of most bows and hitting pretty much every time, you are regaining less EN with a Zealous string than you would from getting that pip of EN regen back by swapping the Zealous bow out, or about the same EN regen. In which case, why not have a bow string that actually does something for you? Is the Zealous string just such a situational use item or only good for a specific build or something, such that I don't see their use?

Jun 25, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12	#4
Thanato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Quebec, Canada Guild: Followers of the Faith Profession: R/Me	i'd say it is situational, although a decent sized mob in pve, along with the use of barrage, can get you back quite a bit of energy in one of my builds, my zealous shortbow is a godsend it all depends what you use ti for.

Jun 25, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20	#5
Blight And Ruin Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Never guilded ;-)	I havent really played with it, yet. Just messing around with a Ranger atm. I have two medium-speed, medium range bows with Zealous mods that I picked up. I don't have one in a bow with a high rate of fire, so I just wasn't seeing the EN math working in my favor. If I could get nice halfmoon or shortbow I would probably start playing with it again.

Jun 25, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42	#6
Amnisac Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Marhan's Grotto Guild: Running Makes It Worse [Run] Profession: R/E	I always use zealous on my bows. With the skills I use, and my ammount of expertise, I never drop below 15, even if I spam bow attacks. (I have 31 energy BTW.)

Jul 01, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24	#7
Blight And Ruin Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Never guilded ;-)	I heard from someone today that Zealous could come in varieties other than 1 : -1. Was this person wrong? I had understood it was only 1 : -1.

Jul 01, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12	#8
Silmor Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2005	To those who think losing one pip of energy regen really hurts when putting on a zealous bowstring, consider the fact that every pip of energy regen stands for only one energy every three seconds. So basically if you're shooting arrows at a rate faster than once every three seconds, you win out - very easy to accomplish with most bows, and any attack speed buff will just improve your energy regen. This benefit is increased even more by attacks like Barrage that hit multiple targets, as noted earlier. Outside of combat you can always switch to a non-zealous bow for swifter recovery of your total energy should you want to.

Jul 01, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49	#9
Tellani Artini Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: America Guild: The Kansas City Hotsteppers [KCHS] Profession: R/	To me, the point is not that you gain energy per hit, but that your target loses energy per hit.

Jul 02, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43	#16
DarX Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Dark Phantoms [DPG] Profession: W/Mo	havent come across it but probably think it is 1:1

Jul 02, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58	#17
MCS Banned Join Date: May 2005	:O Why are we having this discussion. AFAIK you do no steal energy like a vampiric, you simply gain it if you hit. If you're LANDING an attack once every 3 seconds it's like having no effect at all. You have to hit more than that. On a bow it's worthless imo. The regen is barely noticable and all it takes is a couple misses on some guy while he runs and you've just missed enough for half the battle. This doesn't even factor in being knocked down, running, blinded, any spell that causes you to miss (tactics, aegis) I'm talking about these from a PvP standpoint btw. Hope that helped.

Jul 02, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56	#18
Paine Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan Plus [Plus]	bump...