n/mo & e/mo healers get no respect... why? - Guild Wars Forums

Tooraloom · Jul 11, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

I'm a seasoned n/mo healer (and player in general), and have had excellent success as a primary healer in UW and FoW groups. The theory is simple: at 12/12/8 healing/blood/reaping, I have a constant influx of energy from dying things, and can sustain two healing lines (word/seed/breeze/other) and (well + blood offering), and have shutdown with mark of subversion.

Nevertheless, I get nothing but disrespect when finding groups. Skepticism might be a better word. Why? Is it n00bishness on their part, or just something I don't know? I understand divine favor is very compelling, and some of it's advantages very nice - I'm not dissing Mo's... but there is more than one path to victory as a healer.

I just cleaned out FoW with myself and an E/mo healing... after about a half-hour of getting booted/monks leaving when they found out I was the second. *Sigh*

so anywho, that's my gripe. My only complaint is that I can't change my secondary without totally losing the healing aspect, if I had a mo/n I could be a lot more flexible. But then no reaping.

The point? Give us some damn respect in PvE

psycore · Jul 11, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Most people simply just don't understand certain class setups and combinations, it's a pity but they usually are locked into thinking only certain classes have a chance doing certain roles, or only certain classes SHOULD do certain roles, that is not the case obviously and they are usually incapable of thinking outside the box.

I would rather take an unusual healer setup who had a clue rather than a monk without one (and there are a lot of healbots out there).

dansamy · Jul 11, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

I wholeheartedly agree with psycore. I see so many people who haven't a clue about how to run their characters' class, much less find a niche to specialize in utilizing both their primary and secondary class. It took some time and expeience for me to find my niche and groove in pyromancy, which is arguably the easiest ele magic to master.

MaglorD · Jul 11, 2005, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Primary Monk healers are preferred because the amount of healing per second is higher than a secondary monk due to divine favor. Very often, damage can be so quick, you need high healing per second to keep ppl alive. Granted it is rare to come across a good player monk so the difference might not be so great.

But with a good primary monk, ppl will survive where in other circumstances would have died.

EmperorTippy · Jul 11, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

I personaly perfer Protection to healing (Better to stop the damage than fix the damage). But the secondary healers never get the love even in PvE when arguable a anything with /Mo except a warrior can heal well enough (with a good enough player at the keyboard). But its a sliding scale. Mo/?? is eaiser than E/Mo is easier than Me/Mo is easier than N/Mo is easier than R/Mo (possible switch N/Mo and Me/Mo).

Asrial · Jul 11, 2005, 06:58 AM // 06:58

The problem as I see it, is that most people would rather spend an hour forming the perfect group to blow through an area instead of spending that hour with a mismatched group and having more fun with wierd combinations.

I'll captain a team of misfits any day.

Aaaaagh · Jul 11, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

I have never seen a N/Mo primary healer. I havent even considered the option honestly. Your set up sounds pretty smart, I can see why it would work. I also see why people want monk prime healers.

If I didnt know you, and you told me you were going to be the prime healer, my first question would be: Do you have any damage spells on your bar? I think alot of people worry about that too, because you cant be a good healer if your trynig to toss in a bunch of damage too.

Ollj · Jul 11, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Wa/Mo:
Ugh, im a warrior, i do much damage, ugh, i can heal, but i need heal, ugh! ugh! Power Attack!

Mo:
MONKEY looking for a group to get spanked abused and insulted by rambos till my energy goes to 0 in 2 seconds, ah well ill leave you after 5 minutes anyways, because you suck without me, haha. Rebirth!

R:
im a Trapper, traps are so cool, lol i can kill stuff while i run back and forth, but animals and arrows are stupid because they just interrupt and do no damage! Edge of Extinction!

Me:
Im actually a cool class full of creativity, i COULD use any spell of any class and combine them in funny ways, but why should i if i could just stick with domination for the max damage!!! Backfire!

E:
ima Nuka, i do big damage, boom! bang! duh, why am i dead again? should i have run back instead of casting that big spell while being attacked? no! i must do damage! Fire Storm!

N:
Haha suckers! I need a few mouseclicks to almost kill most of you (and not just because i can kill warriors pretty easy)

-
NEVER EVER try to explain a WarriorMonk (or comon player that just plays one class while rarely changins a skill) how Mesmers , Rangers or Necromanchers work, they just wont get it, so just ignore thoose ignorant simple minded.
Also dont try to explain those that "max damage"/"max health" is way overrated and that they need more than just the few spells from ascalon IN THEIR BAR to be good in the game!

for example the poster above me.
Necros MUST do damage to cause deaths(or support the team do do so). EACH death then gives them ~13 energy (friend and foe deaths, so it goes both ways).
If the team needs health then, it gets some (can even use the corpse for it), if not lets just get more damage out of the corpse.
if more than ~3 of anything die in a short time necros always have the most energy (and bonuses) to use and necros can easily cause thoose deaths.

Ninna · Jul 11, 2005, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asrial

most people would rather spend an hour forming the perfect group to blow through an area instead of spending that hour with a mismatched group and having more fun with wierd combinations.

I'll captain a team of misfits any day.

I agree

Ive seen this "perfect group" mentality with many online RPG games

ManaCraft · Jul 11, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tooraloom

Nevertheless, I get nothing but disrespect when finding groups. Skepticism might be a better word. Why? Is it n00bishness on their part, or just something I don't know?

People in general will tend to go with what's tried and true.

There's that, and the fact that divine favor and rune bonuses are usually worth more in tight situations than soul reaping. N/Mo healers can be effective, but will never be as effective per heal as a primary monk. You may be able to sustain yourself slightly longer in battle due to soul reaping, but most fights won't last long enough for this to make a real difference, provided your group knows what it's doing.

ManaCraft

Blight And Ruin · Jul 11, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

People building PUGs for UW and FoW frequently build them in the following fashion:

2 W/*
2 Mo/* (usually 1 Heal Mo and 1 Prot Mo)

. . . leaving 4 slots for all other primary classes.

This may just be my luck with the groups, but that's what I have seen most commonly.

Personally, I have more fun in Fissure once a couple people disconnect with that group strategy - its too easy. I will still take a group spot though.

As an N/Me, I usually but not always go for a general utility role. I try to figure out where the group is weakest and use Necro and Mesmer skills to patch that area. I carry facial scars with superior runes in them of each type, so I can augment or change the distribution of my abilities in a particular attribute on the fly as needed.

Because most of what I do is kind of behind the scenes in such groups (e.g., feeding 6-7 EN regen to casters, hexing enemies, hex removal on group), I'm never sure if newer players have a clue about the range of stuff that I am doing.

Consequently, it's hard to find groups. It seems that most people don't know what Necromancers and Mesmers (or any combination thereof) do.

Teufel Eldritch · Jul 11, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

After 3 ascended characters that have completed the game I have only come across one, yes ONE, E/Mo that said they were a Healer & did thier job well. All the other times I have encountered a E/Mo healer they have performed badly. It is because of this that I never accept a E/Mo healer into any group I lead.

I play either as a N/Me, N/Mo, Mo/N or Mo/Me.

Darksci · Jul 11, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Its rare to find a good N/Mo healer. Problem is, divine favor simply is a really good attribute.

Last time i formed a group with 2 N/Mo's saying they will heal, so i didn't bother to bring alesia. Lets just say i died...

The creatures were doing quite a bit of damage on me, and the healing wasn't enough. Only when they did healing breeze was it slighty better. But when they did Well of Blood. hmmm, i wasn't in it! The well of blood seemed to be nearer to them than myself.

Ever since then, whenever i form a group, i never trust anything except a primary monk. While secondary monk healers are welcome - i wouldn't trust them to protect a tank.

Jack Longblood · Jul 11, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Pretty much every class except for W and Mo get dissed when ppl are forming groups. When was the last time you saw someone broadcasting "Need Mesmer or Ranger for ToA"?

Wanna know the real secret of this game? Every class and class combo is great if someone who knows what they're doing is playing that character. Every class and class combo sucks if someone doesn't.

I went into Ring of Fire, last night, with 5 rangers and we beat it, no problem. But we beat it because we played like a team and we knew what we were doing.

You could have twenty monks on a team and still not win if people don't know what they're doing.

Maybe someday, somewhere, we'll see someone broadcast for necros or mesmers or rangers, but don't hold your breath.

dansamy · Jul 11, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

When we go to Fow/UW as a guild group, we require at least 2xW, 2xMo, 2xEle and 2xrandoms. Personally, I just prefer to make those last two slots another ele and another monk since there really are so few Mes/Nec/Ran who actually know what the hell to do with their characters. BUT, if I have a good necro on the team, he is my best friend, especially if he has some energy regen skills that he can share with me. A good mes will also prevent the mindblades from interrupting my cast by interrupting them. Another good friend to the ele.

Jul 11, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38	#1
Tooraloom Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	n/mo & e/mo healers get no respect... why? I'm a seasoned n/mo healer (and player in general), and have had excellent success as a primary healer in UW and FoW groups. The theory is simple: at 12/12/8 healing/blood/reaping, I have a constant influx of energy from dying things, and can sustain two healing lines (word/seed/breeze/other) and (well + blood offering), and have shutdown with mark of subversion. Nevertheless, I get nothing but disrespect when finding groups. Skepticism might be a better word. Why? Is it n00bishness on their part, or just something I don't know? I understand divine favor is very compelling, and some of it's advantages very nice - I'm not dissing Mo's... but there is more than one path to victory as a healer. I just cleaned out FoW with myself and an E/mo healing... after about a half-hour of getting booted/monks leaving when they found out I was the second. Sigh so anywho, that's my gripe. My only complaint is that I can't change my secondary without totally losing the healing aspect, if I had a mo/n I could be a lot more flexible. But then no reaping. The point? Give us some damn respect in PvE

Jul 11, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47	#8
Ollj Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005	Wa/Mo: Ugh, im a warrior, i do much damage, ugh, i can heal, but i need heal, ugh! ugh! Power Attack! Mo: MONKEY looking for a group to get spanked abused and insulted by rambos till my energy goes to 0 in 2 seconds, ah well ill leave you after 5 minutes anyways, because you suck without me, haha. Rebirth! R: im a Trapper, traps are so cool, lol i can kill stuff while i run back and forth, but animals and arrows are stupid because they just interrupt and do no damage! Edge of Extinction! Me: Im actually a cool class full of creativity, i COULD use any spell of any class and combine them in funny ways, but why should i if i could just stick with domination for the max damage!!! Backfire! E: ima Nuka, i do big damage, boom! bang! duh, why am i dead again? should i have run back instead of casting that big spell while being attacked? no! i must do damage! Fire Storm! N: Haha suckers! I need a few mouseclicks to almost kill most of you (and not just because i can kill warriors pretty easy) - NEVER EVER try to explain a WarriorMonk (or comon player that just plays one class while rarely changins a skill) how Mesmers , Rangers or Necromanchers work, they just wont get it, so just ignore thoose ignorant simple minded. Also dont try to explain those that "max damage"/"max health" is way overrated and that they need more than just the few spells from ascalon IN THEIR BAR to be good in the game! for example the poster above me. Necros MUST do damage to cause deaths(or support the team do do so). EACH death then gives them ~13 energy (friend and foe deaths, so it goes both ways). If the team needs health then, it gets some (can even use the corpse for it), if not lets just get more damage out of the corpse. if more than ~3 of anything die in a short time necros always have the most energy (and bonuses) to use and necros can easily cause thoose deaths. Last edited by Ollj; Jul 11, 2005 at 07:59 AM // 07:59..

Jul 11, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54	#2
psycore Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005	Most people simply just don't understand certain class setups and combinations, it's a pity but they usually are locked into thinking only certain classes have a chance doing certain roles, or only certain classes SHOULD do certain roles, that is not the case obviously and they are usually incapable of thinking outside the box. I would rather take an unusual healer setup who had a clue rather than a monk without one (and there are a lot of healbots out there).

Jul 11, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02	#3
dansamy Chasing Dragons Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lost in La-La Land Guild: LFGuild Profession: Mo/Me	I wholeheartedly agree with psycore. I see so many people who haven't a clue about how to run their characters' class, much less find a niche to specialize in utilizing both their primary and secondary class. It took some time and expeience for me to find my niche and groove in pyromancy, which is arguably the easiest ele magic to master.

Jul 11, 2005, 06:03 AM // 06:03	#4
MaglorD Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005	Primary Monk healers are preferred because the amount of healing per second is higher than a secondary monk due to divine favor. Very often, damage can be so quick, you need high healing per second to keep ppl alive. Granted it is rare to come across a good player monk so the difference might not be so great. But with a good primary monk, ppl will survive where in other circumstances would have died.

Jul 11, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13	#5
EmperorTippy Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005	I personaly perfer Protection to healing (Better to stop the damage than fix the damage). But the secondary healers never get the love even in PvE when arguable a anything with /Mo except a warrior can heal well enough (with a good enough player at the keyboard). But its a sliding scale. Mo/?? is eaiser than E/Mo is easier than Me/Mo is easier than N/Mo is easier than R/Mo (possible switch N/Mo and Me/Mo).

Jul 11, 2005, 06:58 AM // 06:58	#6
Asrial Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Centurion Guard Profession: Mo/E	The problem as I see it, is that most people would rather spend an hour forming the perfect group to blow through an area instead of spending that hour with a mismatched group and having more fun with wierd combinations. I'll captain a team of misfits any day.

Jul 11, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13	#7
Aaaaagh Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005	I have never seen a N/Mo primary healer. I havent even considered the option honestly. Your set up sounds pretty smart, I can see why it would work. I also see why people want monk prime healers. If I didnt know you, and you told me you were going to be the prime healer, my first question would be: Do you have any damage spells on your bar? I think alot of people worry about that too, because you cant be a good healer if your trynig to toss in a bunch of damage too.

Jul 11, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05	#11
Blight And Ruin Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Never guilded ;-)	People building PUGs for UW and FoW frequently build them in the following fashion: 2 W/* 2 Mo/* (usually 1 Heal Mo and 1 Prot Mo) . . . leaving 4 slots for all other primary classes. This may just be my luck with the groups, but that's what I have seen most commonly. Personally, I have more fun in Fissure once a couple people disconnect with that group strategy - its too easy. I will still take a group spot though. As an N/Me, I usually but not always go for a general utility role. I try to figure out where the group is weakest and use Necro and Mesmer skills to patch that area. I carry facial scars with superior runes in them of each type, so I can augment or change the distribution of my abilities in a particular attribute on the fly as needed. Because most of what I do is kind of behind the scenes in such groups (e.g., feeding 6-7 EN regen to casters, hexing enemies, hex removal on group), I'm never sure if newer players have a clue about the range of stuff that I am doing. Consequently, it's hard to find groups. It seems that most people don't know what Necromancers and Mesmers (or any combination thereof) do.

Jul 11, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09	#12
Teufel Eldritch Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Shadar Logoth Guild: The Legendary Majestic 12 Profession: N/	After 3 ascended characters that have completed the game I have only come across one, yes ONE, E/Mo that said they were a Healer & did thier job well. All the other times I have encountered a E/Mo healer they have performed badly. It is because of this that I never accept a E/Mo healer into any group I lead. I play either as a N/Me, N/Mo, Mo/N or Mo/Me.

Jul 11, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27	#13
Darksci Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Guild: Lords Of The Immortal [Loti] Profession: R/W	Its rare to find a good N/Mo healer. Problem is, divine favor simply is a really good attribute. Last time i formed a group with 2 N/Mo's saying they will heal, so i didn't bother to bring alesia. Lets just say i died... The creatures were doing quite a bit of damage on me, and the healing wasn't enough. Only when they did healing breeze was it slighty better. But when they did Well of Blood. hmmm, i wasn't in it! The well of blood seemed to be nearer to them than myself. Ever since then, whenever i form a group, i never trust anything except a primary monk. While secondary monk healers are welcome - i wouldn't trust them to protect a tank.

Jul 11, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38	#14
Jack Longblood Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Profession: R/N	Pretty much every class except for W and Mo get dissed when ppl are forming groups. When was the last time you saw someone broadcasting "Need Mesmer or Ranger for ToA"? Wanna know the real secret of this game? Every class and class combo is great if someone who knows what they're doing is playing that character. Every class and class combo sucks if someone doesn't. I went into Ring of Fire, last night, with 5 rangers and we beat it, no problem. But we beat it because we played like a team and we knew what we were doing. You could have twenty monks on a team and still not win if people don't know what they're doing. Maybe someday, somewhere, we'll see someone broadcast for necros or mesmers or rangers, but don't hold your breath.

Jul 11, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30	#15
dansamy Chasing Dragons Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lost in La-La Land Guild: LFGuild Profession: Mo/Me	When we go to Fow/UW as a guild group, we require at least 2xW, 2xMo, 2xEle and 2xrandoms. Personally, I just prefer to make those last two slots another ele and another monk since there really are so few Mes/Nec/Ran who actually know what the hell to do with their characters. BUT, if I have a good necro on the team, he is my best friend, especially if he has some energy regen skills that he can share with me. A good mes will also prevent the mindblades from interrupting my cast by interrupting them. Another good friend to the ele.