Whats with all the necro hate? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

hobo13 · Aug 04, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamblemonkee

As to the actual reasons for some people not liking Necromancers .. it's been covered in many previous threads, try a search if you haven't already. But to summarize:

Soul Reaping, while great in PvE where lots of deaths occur, it's use is very questionable in PvP especially arenas.

This means that taking a necromancer primary is often frowned upon in PvP unless you have crazy build.

i have taken my necro into PvP many times, i rarely change my attribute points when i do this as well. this means i will have anywhere from 5-9 soul reaping. things in PvP die about relatively slow, however, if my PvP build is all about cursing then all i have to put in is blood and soul reaping. its acutally very helpful. the only build i have that doesnt use my soul reaping is my soul leach backfire build. i use those 2 and many other anti monk hexes for an almost instant kill if they cast. even if its remove hex.

hobo13 · Aug 04, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

I don't hate them.. Not at all. But in many stratagys a Necromancer simply isn't needed.

yeah, i understand that. most teams like to stick with a simple warrior/monk/ele combo. monks heal tanks while eles deal damage. same with in pvp, a many of those groups dont have room for a necro. ive also heard of a few strategies that need a powerful necro. the main one i like is the pain combo. the team uses 5:1 vampiric with skills that hit multiple targets while a necromancer spams order of pain and order of vampire. thats a good 31 bas damage for each physical attack. 13 from order of pain, 13 stolen from order of vampire, and 5 from vampiric. you get 5 rangers with barrage and youve got a pretty nasty firing squad.

hobo13 · Aug 04, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenix

I've read this same thing too many times to not post on it at least once. Most nubs will think a necro isn't that good because they don't know how to use the skills properly, but there are also the good players out there who actually make a great argument against being a necro primary. In PvP, unless, like Shamblemonkee said, you have an excellent build that will garauntee a lot of deaths, i.e. minions/spirits etc. Otherwise, it's pretty much always better to take the other class you were planning to use as your primary. Assuming the other class is also a spell-caster, theres pretty much no advantage to making a spell casting (as in, not a warrior or ranger who dabbles in necromancy) necro with a warrior or ranger primary. Monk is a little iffy as well, if you're planning on only using smiting prayers to further stop the healing that you slowed with curses, and not planning on casting your monk spells on allies. Almost all the time it's much better to either have more energy or be able to cast your spells faster than it is to get energy everytime someone finally goes down.

Plus, the curses and to a lesser extent blood magic lines really shine at the 8-10 attribute levels, and a lot of times you wont get much more help by having any more points in them. (Again, this is just generally, a few builds may call for more)

Keep in mind, this is PvP I'm talking about, soul reaping + minions is great in PvE.

soul reaping + minions is always fun!
anywho, you kinda have to realize that cursing is about making it easier for your team to kill things. well, you could aslo archane echo feast of corruption and deal about 250 damage in 2-3 seconds with 10 second recharge (i think thats the recharge) but necros have alot of haxes that mess with the enemy (like mesmers do) there are ways a necro could get some serious kills, but i would figure that if you sick the necro on the monk then the monk cant heal. thus the rest of the party will go down faster.

Wolfhound · Aug 04, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by A NERD1989

every one hates necro becuase good is better then evil thats why there are more monks

"Evil will always win because Good is dumb"

Dark Helmut in Space Balls.

Weazzol · Aug 04, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

I just hate them becaue they are from the debil!

And what's up with being a Nec/Mo? Talk about a total contradiction in culture, sheesh...

pikpik246 · Aug 04, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

You know, historically, it was usually priests and monks taking up the practice of necromancy in the first place, as they were often the only people educated enough to understand it. And so far as I'm aware, 'proper' necromancy has little to do with raising the dead as your minions and suchlike...

Necromancy was originally a spiritual Magick practiced by those that felt more comfortable with the dead then the living.

Fenix Swiftblade · Aug 04, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobo13

soul reaping + minions is always fun!
anywho, you kinda have to realize that cursing is about making it easier for your team to kill things. well, you could aslo archane echo feast of corruption and deal about 250 damage in 2-3 seconds with 10 second recharge (i think thats the recharge) but necros have alot of haxes that mess with the enemy (like mesmers do) there are ways a necro could get some serious kills, but i would figure that if you sick the necro on the monk then the monk cant heal. thus the rest of the party will go down faster.

I don't get it. Your wording makes it seem like you're disagreeing with me, but what you're actually saying doesn't disagree at all with what I said.

I'm not saying don't use curses, curses are great. I'm saying don't use soul reaping. Bring energy storage or fast casting instead; for curses especially you don't need more than 10 or so points in it so you don't even need the rune. Use the same set of skills you were planning to use with your necro primary and just make him a necro secondary.

Amei Leng · Aug 04, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

My Necro/Mes is Blood/Dominmatix.
Wells and a high heeled boot.
No minions needed.
The boys ask for her, even when Im playing my W/R or Monk

shaddy262 · Aug 04, 2005, 11:52 PM // 23:52

as mentioned be4 da reason 4 their been more monks in da game is bcause monks can heal and have the ability to reserect people an are more needed in battle > my elementalist would kick all monks butts 2 where they belong

shaddy262 · Aug 04, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

my e/r would kick all ya butts

[email protected] · Aug 05, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Nobody has yet mentioned the N/Mo as the greatest support healer, that is they support the monks while the monks take care of the rest of the team. Plenty of creativity there for other team dmg since you only need a handful of spells to really support your monks (high protection).

ZenRgy · Aug 05, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobo13

if you sick the necro on the monk then the monk cant heal. thus the rest of the party will go down faster.

Yeah, you can absolutely own necros with blood + curses (although I'm curses + death)

>Malaise -2 energy degen
>Wither -2 energy degen // Feast Of Corruption (Basic Damage) // Lingering Curse (Probably the best one to go with, target loses all enchantments and only gets half the benefit from healing)
>Strip Enchantment
>Soul Barbs (This should be cast first so you deal more damage with each hex)

There are more things like this, but these are the few I like.

hobo13 · Aug 05, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenix

I don't get it. Your wording makes it seem like you're disagreeing with me, but what you're actually saying doesn't disagree at all with what I said.

I'm not saying don't use curses, curses are great. I'm saying don't use soul reaping. Bring energy storage or fast casting instead; for curses especially you don't need more than 10 or so points in it so you don't even need the rune. Use the same set of skills you were planning to use with your necro primary and just make him a necro secondary.

the problem with that is the runes, youll only be able to get your curses so powerful and last so long.

hobo13 · Aug 05, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaddy262

my e/r would kick all ya butts

whatever helps you sleep at night.

Alana · Aug 05, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amei Leng

My Necro/Mes is Blood/Dominmatix.
Wells and a high heeled boot.

I am in total agreement here.

This is my same build and it was really fun for PvE. I can understand the argument that Soul Reaping is not as useful in PvP, but for PvE it's very helpful. My necro was my second character and I had a far easier time than with my elementalist.

So in short, what everyone else said. People who think necros are useless need to dig a little deeper. The classes all have their place in a party. And necromancers have personality to spare!

Fenix Swiftblade · Aug 05, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobo13

the problem with that is the runes, youll only be able to get your curses so powerful and last so long.

Okay, something I can try to argue against.

The difference in times between 9 and 14 (or even 16) Atrribute Level is usually not worth both the extra attributes and not having access to a good PvP primary attribute.

Lingering Curse for example (while arguably not the best elite choice for a debuff build, but still) lasts for ~15 seconds at level 9-10, and only 18 at 12, and ~20 at level 14. However, it also costs 25 energy to cast. This leaves a Necro primary with only 15 energy left for the next curse, but an Ele primary will still have at least 40.

Weaken armor is a slightly worse example, but still fits. At 9-10 it lasts for right around 25 seconds, and still does the full -20 of armor loss. At 12 it lasts for 34, which given it's 30 second recharge time is a nice way to have it up all the time. However, at higher levels of PvP the monks involved will be, or at least should be, removing hexes from people. Having it at 26 seconds lets it last for a while anyway, but it won't be nearly as wasted if it gets removed. While the energy cost for this skill isn't very high, the casting time is for it being a hex. So, if you're planning on bringing mesmer skills as well, fast casting will be much more of a help than soul reaping.

The bottom line IMO is that you're much better off with your curses at level 9 and getting 49 extra attribute points (which is enough to pump something up to level 9 on it's own) than getting the extra 3 levels to get it at 12 naturally. You're also much better off going with the other profession as your primary and using the runes on all of the skills you're bringing from that profession as well as getting a primary attribute thats usefull in PvP. The only way I would even consider being a primary necro is if I was planning on only using necromancer skills of all 8 slots, and even then I would most likely go with an Ele primary just for the energy storage, probably Death at 12, blood or curses at 10 and energy storage at 11(9+gem+minor rune), or maybe even 12-9-12 in the same order.

Remember, I'm certainly not saying necros suck, one of my favorite chars to play uses necro skills in most of the skill bar. But it's an Ele/Nec, because there are few cases where a necro primary is worth it in PvP.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Nobody has yet mentioned the N/Mo as the greatest support healer, that is they support the monks while the monks take care of the rest of the team. Plenty of creativity there for other team dmg since you only need a handful of spells to really support your monks (high protection).

This is a tough one. If you're a necro/monk all you get is a little extra time on the Blood Ritual or an extra energy pip on Blood is Power But, you also don't become the focus of fire untill after the other monks are dead, which shouldn't happen if you're there. But, if you take the monk primary (be a Mo/N) you loe practically nothing from your attributes and you gain divine favor and the ability to pump up your protection magic even higher. But, everyone will see you as a monk and might go after you instead of the other guys. However, if the other monks are doing their job and you're doing yours, you should be fine, so this is usually the better choice.

DeLuux · Aug 05, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I'm now working with a W/N.. It works quite well, weakening enemies whilst killing them verociously (sp?).. Nothing wrong with em

hobo13 · Aug 17, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

ive done necro in pvp, the best build i have found is N/Me, they have so many similar skills. for instance, if you wanted to take out a warrior quick.
empathy
insideous parasite
spiteful spirit
done right this will do +100 dmg to the warrior whenever they hit. with anti caster me/n would be a bit better, however you can still pull off a great anti monk with n/me by simply removing all enchantments by using lingering curse, then cast a few intterupts and watch them take it in the mouth.

Celdor Nailo · Aug 17, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Only one thing I don't like about necromancers is that I find my warrior often gets stuck in place if surrounded by too many of the necro's minions.

Xue Yi Liang · Aug 18, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41

I don't mind you necros - but can you do something about the posture? Some physical therapy might help.

Aug 04, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59	#25
Weazzol Academy Page Join Date: May 2005	I just hate them becaue they are from the debil! And what's up with being a Nec/Mo? Talk about a total contradiction in culture, sheesh...

Aug 04, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29	#28
Amei Leng Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Left coast Guild: Sleepless In Cyberspace (SIC)	My Necro/Mes is Blood/Dominmatix. Wells and a high heeled boot. No minions needed. The boys ask for her, even when Im playing my W/R or Monk

Aug 04, 2005, 11:52 PM // 23:52	#29
shaddy262 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/R	as mentioned be4 da reason 4 their been more monks in da game is bcause monks can heal and have the ability to reserect people an are more needed in battle > my elementalist would kick all monks butts 2 where they belong

Aug 04, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53	#30
shaddy262 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/R	my e/r would kick all ya butts

Aug 05, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08	#31
[email protected] Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2005	Nobody has yet mentioned the N/Mo as the greatest support healer, that is they support the monks while the monks take care of the rest of the team. Plenty of creativity there for other team dmg since you only need a handful of spells to really support your monks (high protection).

Aug 05, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32	#37
DeLuux Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Warriors of the Forgotten Land	I'm now working with a W/N.. It works quite well, weakening enemies whilst killing them verociously (sp?).. Nothing wrong with em

Aug 17, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12	#38
hobo13 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Brutananadelweski clan Profession: N/	ive done necro in pvp, the best build i have found is N/Me, they have so many similar skills. for instance, if you wanted to take out a warrior quick. empathy insideous parasite spiteful spirit done right this will do +100 dmg to the warrior whenever they hit. with anti caster me/n would be a bit better, however you can still pull off a great anti monk with n/me by simply removing all enchantments by using lingering curse, then cast a few intterupts and watch them take it in the mouth.

Aug 17, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37	#39
Celdor Nailo Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Profession: Mo/E	Only one thing I don't like about necromancers is that I find my warrior often gets stuck in place if surrounded by too many of the necro's minions.

Aug 18, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41	#40
Xue Yi Liang Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern CA Guild: Outlaws of the Water Margin Profession: Mo/Me	I don't mind you necros - but can you do something about the posture? Some physical therapy might help.