Need a statistical analysis regarding shield mods - Guild Wars Forums

Blue Steel · Aug 22, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Can somebody (maybe Ensign?) give me an Ensign-quality analysis as to which is the better shield mod: +45 health while enchanted or -2 damage while enchanted?

Obviously it would be ideal to have both on your shield, but such shields are extremely rare and expensive, and so if you don't have both, which of the two is more important, on average? Is there a point (specific amount of bonus health) where the health becomes preferable to damage reduction?

Thanks!

Blue Steel · Aug 24, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Can I bump questions that no one has answered? I don't really have to have a deep analysis. Opinions would be welcome too, as long as they are backed by a significant amount of experience.

Asrial · Aug 24, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I asked a similar question a while back and never got a response.

Which is better?

Armor X + X or Armor X w/ -1 damage

IE: Armor 12 vs Armor 10 (-1 damage while enchanted)

Asrial · Aug 24, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=29789

This is a comparions of health mods vs armor mods on a bow.

aB- · Aug 24, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asrial

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=29789

This is a comparions of health mods vs armor mods on a bow.

But this is a damage reduction mod, so the comparison does not help.

Well, I would imagine -2 damage would be better than the health after 22 hits, as on the 23rd hit you would have negated a total of 46 damage, more than 45 health.

Asrial · Aug 24, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

..and lastly, my thoughts on the question..

I would say the -2 damage is superior for drawn out combat and the +45 health is superior for quick fights (or running in your case).

Say the comparion is health +46 vs -2 damage. You get 23 hits before you've used up your health bonus (when compared to -2 damage), whereas the -2 damage is infinite. The period of time I use is going from full health to full health (however long it takes to get back to full health).

..but..

Running, you aren't going to be getting 23 hits in a short period of time. Your fears in running are DoT attacks which -2 damage won't help against.

In short.. for running, neither bonus is really all that beneficial unless you've had some EXTREMELY close calls. I'd say go with the health modification and switch over to -2 damage when tanking.

Asrial · Aug 24, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

But this is a damage reduction mod, so the comparison does not help.

Give a man 1k gold and he buys runes for a day. Teach a man to farm and he buys Celestial Sigils for a day.

Heh.

Banebow · Aug 24, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

On a larger scale, I would say this is similar to the difference between Vital Blessing and Shielding Hands. Do you want to take less from each hit, or take the same but live through a few more? In the long run, I would definatly go with the damage reduction upgrade.

If I had a program that could create graphs, I would have made one. However, that is something I lack. I think the equations you could use are:
for health: x=(y-kz+45)
where x is your current health, y is your max health(without the mod), z is damage taken per second, and k is time in seconds.
for reduction: x=(y-kz+k2)
where x is your current health, y is your max health, z is damage taken per second, and k is time in seconds.

So, lets say you are taking 10 damage per second, and the fight lasts 30 seconds. So, health after that battle.
health mod:
x=(480-30(10)+45)
x=(480-300+45)
x=(180+45)
x=225
reduction mod:
x=(480-30(10)+30(2))
x=(480-300+60)
x=(180+60)
x=240

I say go with damage reduction.

Also, you should consider what you are fighting. Imagine your only enchantment gets stripped. You can a) lose 45 health or b) lose the -2 damage reduction.

Hope it helps.

Paine · Aug 24, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Just create a PvP-character and you got both

Savio · Aug 24, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Banebow, that would only apply if a character was taking attack damage. Health degen skills would slip right through.

Blue Steel, are you talking about in general or a specific instance?

Ensign · Aug 24, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

What exactly are you trying to defend against? What circumstances are you planning on being in?

As has been mentioned, the 'break even' point as far as protection from death goes is at 23 hits. Takes 23 or more hits for a kill, and -2 damage per hit is a stronger mod. 22 or less, and +45 health gives you better spike protection.

Do you want an item to help you sustain damage? -2 damage per hit is preferable, particularly for Warriors with high armor. That translates into an awful lot of damage reduction over the course of a battle. Concerned more about being dropped in 5 hits by armor ignoring spike? +45 health will be of more help.

In general I'd say that I prefer -2 damage per hit in PvE where the game is slower and damage reduction has time to work with healing - whether running around solo or not. In PvP it's a bit less clear. Being spiked out is your big worry as a Warrior, not taking sustained damage. So on the surface the +45 health mod is more useful. At the same time the issue is clouded by the number of hits needed to kill you, since the -2 damage is going to protect you against spike to a degree as well. I'd still likely go with the +45 health, at least for now, but I don't think it's as cut and dried as PvE.

Which is better for running? You tell me, I've never spent any time analyzing the needs of that particular profession. Hopefully what I've mentioned above will help your decision.

Peace,
-CxE

Blue Steel · Aug 25, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Which is better for running? You tell me, I've never spent any time analyzing the needs of that particular profession.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. As for which is better in running (and everything else), I always use a tall shield that is -2 enchanted AND +45 enchanted so I don't have to decide.

I have trained a couple of runners to work with me, though, and I haven't been able to find more shields like mine for them yet. In their experience, though, it really feels like a toss up (each about equally effective in every way, hence the request for some analysis).

Aug 22, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36	#1
Blue Steel Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE] Profession: W/Mo	Need a statistical analysis regarding shield mods Can somebody (maybe Ensign?) give me an Ensign-quality analysis as to which is the better shield mod: +45 health while enchanted or -2 damage while enchanted? Obviously it would be ideal to have both on your shield, but such shields are extremely rare and expensive, and so if you don't have both, which of the two is more important, on average? Is there a point (specific amount of bonus health) where the health becomes preferable to damage reduction? Thanks!

Aug 24, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16	#8
Banebow Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: [KoA] Knights of the Alliance Profession: Me/	On a larger scale, I would say this is similar to the difference between Vital Blessing and Shielding Hands. Do you want to take less from each hit, or take the same but live through a few more? In the long run, I would definatly go with the damage reduction upgrade. If I had a program that could create graphs, I would have made one. However, that is something I lack. I think the equations you could use are: for health: x=(y-kz+45) where x is your current health, y is your max health(without the mod), z is damage taken per second, and k is time in seconds. for reduction: x=(y-kz+k2) where x is your current health, y is your max health, z is damage taken per second, and k is time in seconds. So, lets say you are taking 10 damage per second, and the fight lasts 30 seconds. So, health after that battle. health mod: x=(480-30(10)+45) x=(480-300+45) x=(180+45) x=225 reduction mod: x=(480-30(10)+30(2)) x=(480-300+60) x=(180+60) x=240 I say go with damage reduction. Also, you should consider what you are fighting. Imagine your only enchantment gets stripped. You can a) lose 45 health or b) lose the -2 damage reduction. Hope it helps. Last edited by Banebow; Aug 24, 2005 at 03:19 AM // 03:19..

Aug 24, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14	#11
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	What exactly are you trying to defend against? What circumstances are you planning on being in? As has been mentioned, the 'break even' point as far as protection from death goes is at 23 hits. Takes 23 or more hits for a kill, and -2 damage per hit is a stronger mod. 22 or less, and +45 health gives you better spike protection. Do you want an item to help you sustain damage? -2 damage per hit is preferable, particularly for Warriors with high armor. That translates into an awful lot of damage reduction over the course of a battle. Concerned more about being dropped in 5 hits by armor ignoring spike? +45 health will be of more help. In general I'd say that I prefer -2 damage per hit in PvE where the game is slower and damage reduction has time to work with healing - whether running around solo or not. In PvP it's a bit less clear. Being spiked out is your big worry as a Warrior, not taking sustained damage. So on the surface the +45 health mod is more useful. At the same time the issue is clouded by the number of hits needed to kill you, since the -2 damage is going to protect you against spike to a degree as well. I'd still likely go with the +45 health, at least for now, but I don't think it's as cut and dried as PvE. Which is better for running? You tell me, I've never spent any time analyzing the needs of that particular profession. Hopefully what I've mentioned above will help your decision. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Aug 24, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38	#2
Blue Steel Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE] Profession: W/Mo	Can I bump questions that no one has answered? I don't really have to have a deep analysis. Opinions would be welcome too, as long as they are backed by a significant amount of experience.

Aug 24, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32	#3
Asrial Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Centurion Guard Profession: Mo/E	I asked a similar question a while back and never got a response. Which is better? Armor X + X or Armor X w/ -1 damage IE: Armor 12 vs Armor 10 (-1 damage while enchanted)

Aug 24, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34	#4
Asrial Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Centurion Guard Profession: Mo/E	http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=29789 This is a comparions of health mods vs armor mods on a bow.

Aug 24, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41	#6
Asrial Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005 Guild: Centurion Guard Profession: Mo/E	..and lastly, my thoughts on the question.. I would say the -2 damage is superior for drawn out combat and the +45 health is superior for quick fights (or running in your case). Say the comparion is health +46 vs -2 damage. You get 23 hits before you've used up your health bonus (when compared to -2 damage), whereas the -2 damage is infinite. The period of time I use is going from full health to full health (however long it takes to get back to full health). ..but.. Running, you aren't going to be getting 23 hits in a short period of time. Your fears in running are DoT attacks which -2 damage won't help against. In short.. for running, neither bonus is really all that beneficial unless you've had some EXTREMELY close calls. I'd say go with the health modification and switch over to -2 damage when tanking.

Aug 24, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51	#9
Paine Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan Plus [Plus]	Just create a PvP-character and you got both

Aug 24, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02	#10
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Banebow, that would only apply if a character was taking attack damage. Health degen skills would slip right through. Blue Steel, are you talking about in general or a specific instance?