henchies - Guild Wars Forums

teny10 · Sep 02, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Why does lvl 20 henchies only have 7 skills instead of 8? I mean, would anyone out there run into any place w/o having 8 skills on your bar, besides presearing and mirror fight? And I would like to see better skill set for henchies as well. For example, I like mesmers, but the enchanter is useless because his skills sucks. I'll stop here before I get started on their AI implementation...

The undead Mesmer · Sep 02, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

they have 8 skills but skill number 8 is rez signet so maybe henchies suck but they are better then some of those real players

teny10 · Sep 02, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

err, that's 7 INCLUDING the rez signet.

The undead Mesmer · Sep 02, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

ooh lol so they use only 6 real skills have to check that out

Kobun King · Sep 02, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

I have to agree with the enchanter henchman sucking bad. None of his skills are worthwhile, especially his elite skill crippling anguish. He might also be bugged; I took him to the ring of fire since I wasn't planning on finishing the mission because I was just going to cap a skill and leave, and I noticed that the only skills he was using were crippling anguish and some kind of enchantment spell on himself that I didn't catch him casting. Overall, all the henches generally use crappy skills.

Blue Steel · Sep 02, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Henchies, like monsters, only use certain skills that are easy for an artificial intelligence to get right most of the time. Even some very simple skills are almost impossible for a henchman to use, because they require some actual intelligence. Look at "Misfirin' Orion" who tend to cast a fire storm on a single opponent who is about to die anyway and then doesn't do anything to the large group of monsters in full health because he wasted all his energy on the stragglers.

As frustrating as the henchies can be, they are actually remarkably better than 90% of the random strangers even though they are lower levels and have less skills. They are predictable, do what you think they should, and won't leave in the middle of a critical quest. If the henchmen were any better, no one would use PUGs at all. You already have to take friends or henchies if you want to beat thunderhead on the first try, and part of the goal of the developers was to ENCOURAGE teamwork and meeting new people, so slightly less skills and lower levels for most of the henchies is a good thing.

7 skills is kind of realistic, anyway, because most people have a capture signet or at least one stupid, useless skill for their build or context anyway in PvE.

Jenosavel · Sep 02, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

I agree with Blue Steel, but would like add that the reason the Enchanter stands out as exceptionally bad is because he's a Mesmer. Mesmers are an awesome class, but they require thought to actually play. The poor Enchanter hench never had a chance.

If you don't believe me, just watch what the enemy Mesmers cast on you some time. It's not uncommon to see Empathy pop up on a caster or Backfire on a tank. The AI will do some things that a human would never dream of doing because, quite simply, it's stupid.

The Amazing Krandor · Sep 02, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

If you don't believe me, just watch what the enemy Mesmers cast on you some time. It's not uncommon to see Empathy pop up on a caster or Backfire on a tank. The AI will do some things that a human would never dream of doing because, quite simply, it's stupid.

To be honest, Durham would be vastly improved if he were given Empathy and Backfire, even if he did miscast them on occassion! The AI for the enemies does well enough with spells like Cry of Frustration, Spirit Shackles, Mind Wrack, etc., so I don't see how Durham would do any worse with them. Sure, a human player can (usually...) intelligently work around them, but AI vs AI (Durham vs. monsters) would be a fair enough fight, I think, that such spells would actually be quite useful for him to have. Certainly moreso than his current skill loadout.

Jenosavel · Sep 02, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Amazing Krandor

To be honest, Durham would be vastly improved if he were given Empathy and Backfire, even if he did miscast them on occassion! The AI for the enemies does well enough with spells like Cry of Frustration, Spirit Shackles, Mind Wrack, etc., so I don't see how Durham would do any worse with them. Sure, a human player can (usually...) intelligently work around them, but AI vs AI (Durham vs. monsters) would be a fair enough fight, I think, that such spells would actually be quite useful for him to have. Certainly moreso than his current skill loadout.

Er, I'm curious as to what you think his current skill set is. From my experiences with him, he starts every battle (or new enemy) with Imagined Burden, followed by Empathy. Then, when possible, he adds in Drain Enchantment for good measure.

I don't know about you, but I consider Empathy and Drain Enchantment good skills. I find Dunham's use of them pathetic, but that was my original point anyway.

Kobun King · Sep 02, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Steel

Henchies, like monsters, only use certain skills that are easy for an artificial intelligence to get right most of the time. Even some very simple skills are almost impossible for a henchman to use, because they require some actual intelligence. Look at "Misfirin' Orion" who tend to cast a fire storm on a single opponent who is about to die anyway and then doesn't do anything to the large group of monsters in full health because he wasted all his energy on the stragglers.

As frustrating as the henchies can be, they are actually remarkably better than 90% of the random strangers even though they are lower levels and have less skills. They are predictable, do what you think they should, and won't leave in the middle of a critical quest. If the henchmen were any better, no one would use PUGs at all. You already have to take friends or henchies if you want to beat thunderhead on the first try, and part of the goal of the developers was to ENCOURAGE teamwork and meeting new people, so slightly less skills and lower levels for most of the henchies is a good thing.

7 skills is kind of realistic, anyway, because most people have a capture signet or at least one stupid, useless skill for their build or context anyway in PvE.

True enough, but they still have a fairly terrible skill set. Take Reyna for example: she usually uses kindle arrow with dual shot, which overall is mediocre damage. We can't expect her to use something like concussion shot or spirits, i.e something that requires timing or being able to evaluate a situation, but she could still use decent skills like penetrating shot and stances like lightning reflexes, skills that are good in most situations at any given time. Even monsters can figure out wells and shouts, so why not henches?

bowsmack71 · Sep 02, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Is there any way to get the henches to use specific skills? Im a warrior and new to this game and usually use the healer, archer,fighter ,cultist(necro??)and enchanter but dont ever notice anyone casting any buff(enchantments) on the party. Is this normal or am I not doing something? Also, any party roster suggestions for the henches would be appreciated.

Jenosavel · Sep 02, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Most of the henchmen don't have enchantments to cast on the party until you get Lina later one. She's a protection monk and should be a definite priority in your hench taking once she's available.

Until then, do your best to take henches that compliment your team (ie: don't take Orion if you're a fire ele or Alesia if you're a monk). I generally also avoid the Enchanter since he's quite useless, though that's already been discussed above.

Sep 02, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57	#1
teny10 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Servants of Fortuna Profession: W/Mo	henchies Why does lvl 20 henchies only have 7 skills instead of 8? I mean, would anyone out there run into any place w/o having 8 skills on your bar, besides presearing and mirror fight? And I would like to see better skill set for henchies as well. For example, I like mesmers, but the enchanter is useless because his skills sucks. I'll stop here before I get started on their AI implementation...

Sep 02, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35	#6
Blue Steel Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE] Profession: W/Mo	Henchies, like monsters, only use certain skills that are easy for an artificial intelligence to get right most of the time. Even some very simple skills are almost impossible for a henchman to use, because they require some actual intelligence. Look at "Misfirin' Orion" who tend to cast a fire storm on a single opponent who is about to die anyway and then doesn't do anything to the large group of monsters in full health because he wasted all his energy on the stragglers. As frustrating as the henchies can be, they are actually remarkably better than 90% of the random strangers even though they are lower levels and have less skills. They are predictable, do what you think they should, and won't leave in the middle of a critical quest. If the henchmen were any better, no one would use PUGs at all. You already have to take friends or henchies if you want to beat thunderhead on the first try, and part of the goal of the developers was to ENCOURAGE teamwork and meeting new people, so slightly less skills and lower levels for most of the henchies is a good thing. 7 skills is kind of realistic, anyway, because most people have a capture signet or at least one stupid, useless skill for their build or context anyway in PvE. Last edited by Blue Steel; Sep 02, 2005 at 06:52 PM // 18:52..

Sep 02, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02	#2
The undead Mesmer Delphian Scribe Join Date: May 2005 Location: Holland Guild: No guild ;_; Profession: N/Me	they have 8 skills but skill number 8 is rez signet so maybe henchies suck but they are better then some of those real players

Sep 02, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04	#3
teny10 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Servants of Fortuna Profession: W/Mo	err, that's 7 INCLUDING the rez signet.

Sep 02, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13	#4
The undead Mesmer Delphian Scribe Join Date: May 2005 Location: Holland Guild: No guild ;_; Profession: N/Me	ooh lol so they use only 6 real skills have to check that out

Sep 02, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03	#5
Kobun King Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005	I have to agree with the enchanter henchman sucking bad. None of his skills are worthwhile, especially his elite skill crippling anguish. He might also be bugged; I took him to the ring of fire since I wasn't planning on finishing the mission because I was just going to cap a skill and leave, and I noticed that the only skills he was using were crippling anguish and some kind of enchantment spell on himself that I didn't catch him casting. Overall, all the henches generally use crappy skills.

Sep 02, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46	#7
Jenosavel Master of Beasts Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: R/	I agree with Blue Steel, but would like add that the reason the Enchanter stands out as exceptionally bad is because he's a Mesmer. Mesmers are an awesome class, but they require thought to actually play. The poor Enchanter hench never had a chance. If you don't believe me, just watch what the enemy Mesmers cast on you some time. It's not uncommon to see Empathy pop up on a caster or Backfire on a tank. The AI will do some things that a human would never dream of doing because, quite simply, it's stupid.

Sep 02, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14	#11
bowsmack71 Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: W/R	Is there any way to get the henches to use specific skills? Im a warrior and new to this game and usually use the healer, archer,fighter ,cultist(necro??)and enchanter but dont ever notice anyone casting any buff(enchantments) on the party. Is this normal or am I not doing something? Also, any party roster suggestions for the henches would be appreciated.

Sep 02, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31	#12
Jenosavel Master of Beasts Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: R/	Most of the henchmen don't have enchantments to cast on the party until you get Lina later one. She's a protection monk and should be a definite priority in your hench taking once she's available. Until then, do your best to take henches that compliment your team (ie: don't take Orion if you're a fire ele or Alesia if you're a monk). I generally also avoid the Enchanter since he's quite useless, though that's already been discussed above.