peace and harmony bugged?? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

navy blue chuckz · Sep 09, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

this was my primary means of energy regen. >.>

anyone have any REPLACEMENTS? I don't like to use OoB, or MoR...

WHAT ELSE IS THERE? *SIGH*

Shadowdaemon · Sep 09, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

yeah it is about utterly useless now, elite my @$$

Dazzler · Sep 09, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Energy Drain is the best energy management skill in the game for non-Ele primaries.

Kiiron · Sep 09, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

This is definitely an unintended bug, and I hope it gets corrected soon - I miss my regen =(

Morello · Sep 09, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

It seems like a consistancy thing to me. Look at other skills that work on "spells that target an ally" and they work the same way.

Does this mean P&H isn't underpowered? Of course not - it's probably one of the worst elites in the game right now. But it does mean that there's hope for it getting fixed if it was a result of a blanket change rather than a specific skill balance issue.

jdwoody · Sep 09, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Logically I can understand with the changes that were made why it doesn't work the way it used to.

But my gut tells me that peace and harmony should not end when I cast Heal Party. (Especially when I see the divine bonus over my head which tells me I was the target)

Regardless I won't be using it any time soon...

Dazzler · Sep 09, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Yeah I understand why it changed. But now that it is "fixed" for all "targetted" spells, they need to come adjust the balance of P&H. Obviously the intention of this spell is to grant you an E bonus as long as you perform "peaceful" actions.

They just need to change the spell to work as such.

Tactical-Dillusions · Sep 09, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

When i first used peace and harmony after the update, i was wondering why it was ending.

After reading this thread and finding out WHY it was ending, i am absolutely appalled.

This was my favourite elite skill for healing my teammates and myself. I sometimes used it with divine boon so i could do a good job for my team and
keep my energy management fairly decent.

ArenaNet needs to consider changing peace and harmony back.

I'd also love to know why their public relations officer said that they have nothing against farmers, but the update was full of nerfs to the contrary.

They nerf the skills for solo players and at the same time, that nerf affects team players.

Such B.S. and i for one am not happy with this aspect of the update.
I thought everything was F'ing brilliant until i read this thread.
I'm tempted to rant on but i think i've made my opinion. >>

<<

Ensign · Sep 09, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I think it's a good change. Now people will stop using that steaming pile of yak dung and start using better elites, slowly but surely raising the quality of play in this game. Anything that raises the quality of builds, even if it's something absurd like this change, has to be viewed in a favorable light.

Peace,
-CxE

id0l · Sep 10, 2005, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I think it's a good change. Now people will stop using that steaming pile of yak dung and start using better elites, slowly but surely raising the quality of play in this game. Anything that raises the quality of builds, even if it's something absurd like this change, has to be viewed in a favorable light.

Peace,
-CxE

Not to diss on your godly opinion here, but there WAS nothing wrong with it, therefore it WASN'T yak dung. I used to be able to keep my energy at a +1 state at all times (actually re-leveling back to normal with the -1 energy regen ankh). This allowed me +27 energy (before other energy+ mods from weapons) with the same regen. What's so crappy about that? Especially with a measly 5 energy cost. I think high 60s, 70s energy with regular regen is pretty damn good for a monk, considering the alternatives. Not to hate on any other monk elites, however. They are all pretty good if wielded correctly.

But I must agree in point that it has now BECOME a steaming pile of yak dung.

And I know, inherently, that when you mention builds you are talking about PvP builds, or at least I think you are. To a point, I agree that other elites may be better for PvP and GvG, however, not all builds are centered on player vs. player. And even considering the fact that in PvP/GvG you can have more than one monk, there is nothing bad about one having PaH as their elite. Sure it can be stripped just like any other enchantment, but as many have said before there is a counter to everything. It's what maintains balance.

audioaxes · Sep 10, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19

DOnt want to turn this into a argument on whether or not peace and harmony was a good elite but when everything hits the fan and every monk becomes a pay check to pay check 5 energy heal to stay alive, that extra pip comes mighty useful in keeping your mana rolling at a constant pace so you have more breathing room. And in 8v8 if you have a 20% longer staff wrapping and 20% faster recast you can get all 3 monks the peace and harmony enchant and can easily do a two monk cycle keeping both under P&H at all times baring strip.

Ensign · Sep 10, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

but there WAS nothing wrong with it, therefore it WASN'T yak dung.

No, back when it worked with glyphs and Heal Party and the like it was a steaming pile of yak dung. Now that it no longer works with skills like Boon it is not worthy of being compared to yak dung. It's now some unspeakably bad monstrosity of an elite that makes you worse just by looking at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

I used to be able to keep my energy at a +1 state at all times (actually re-leveling back to normal with the -1 energy regen ankh). This allowed me +27 energy (before other energy+ mods from weapons) with the same regen. What's so crappy about that?

So your strategy was to trade your elite slot for a static boost of 15 max energy?

So you take an awful elite, and use it's effect to (almost) cancel out the drawback of a terrible main offhand item? Is this some version of the "Mending is awesome because it cancels the degen from Vampiric!" argument, just like 1000x worse?

I'd like to be able to explain just how awful that is. Unfortunately I'm having trouble understanding why someone would ever think that was good, so I can't exactly refute the argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

They are all pretty good if wielded correctly.

I dunno man, that Unyielding Aura is a real winner. I've sat down and *tried* to find a use for that skill, and I still have absolutely no clue why you would ever take it under any circumstances whatsoever. The closest thing to a 'good' idea I've ever heard was setting up self-sacrifice / Unyielding Aura chains to set up perfect Edge of Extinction bombs. When that qualifies as a good idea for an elite skill you know you're in trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

And I know, inherently, that when you mention builds you are talking about PvP builds, or at least I think you are.

Usually, yeah, but when I talk about skills I try and focus on where they're strongest. Spell Breaker is a Tombs elite, for example - Aura of Faith is strong in arena, Shield of Judgement in PvE, Healing Hands on WaMo PvE tanks. Elites like Signet of Judgement that entire strategies work around, Martyr that serve to keep aspects of the game in check, or elites like Word of Healing that are just supercharged versions of normal skills. The power level of skills does fluctuate wildly from format to format, and even the inherent power of different skills doesn't have a ton of consistency.

Peace and Harmony isn't even on the power map.

I think there's some mistaken assumption that Peace and Harmony actually does something. All it does is give you a bit less than one pip of energy regeneration, at the cost of only being able to use skills that target allies. Remember that the gold standard for an energy management elite skill is *three* pips of energy regen, and potentially even more with the right drawbacks.

The only situation I know of where the skill is even remotely acceptable is on a Blessed Aura Monk with 16 Divine Favor. If that's the case you can reasonably maintain Peace and Harmony on all three of the team's Monks (including yourself) for a bit less than 3 net pips of regen on your team. So on its own that's minimally acceptable, but it has all sorts of drawbacks, from build constrictions (no Energy Drain on the other Monks) to splash damage on enchantment removal, to simply creating a build where your Monks can never attack if tactics dictate, to the opportunity costs of giving up something truly insane on such a character (35 second Spell Breaker in particluar). In other words, if used on a build best suited to abuse the skill in the perfect situation, it's still a weak choice.

In PvE? I really don't know why you'd ever use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

Sure it can be stripped just like any other enchantment, but as many have said before there is a counter to everything. It's what maintains balance.

You assume that Peace and Harmony is something that's worth countering. It isn't. The standard response to a Peace and Harmony Monk is something like "Whoa, this Monk is using Peace and Harmony. GG. I'm going to be seriously disappointed if we don't smash this team's face in less than a minute."

Followed, of course, by some merciless taunting in local chat in hopes of getting a rage quit.

No, counters have nothing to do with the equation. It's simply a matter of only having eight skills on a skill bar, and each of them, particularly your elite, having to pull their own weight. Adding an elite with the speed and impact of wet cardboard to your build doesn't exactly live up to expectations.

Peace,
-CxE

Numa Pompilius · Sep 10, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37

So why was it nerfed? Was it used to fuel untargeted PBAoE effects like aura, zealots and wrath?

audioaxes · Sep 10, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

um you still havent convinced me. To all who havent known that the trick was out of the bag, divine boon + P&H prot monk "was" the ownage.

Zeru · Sep 11, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

um you still havent convinced me. To all who havent known that the trick was out of the bag, divine boon + P&H prot monk "was" the ownage.

You're joking, right? Cause that's basically saying "I don't actually look at what I'm using." Using P&H to offset Divine Boon is a just dumb (compare it to offering/energy drain).

Shadowdaemon · Sep 11, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It's now some unspeakably bad monstrosity of an elite that makes you worse just by looking at it.

and yet you type a couple hundred words about it?

sounds like you love it to me

Racthoh · Sep 11, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

From the update page:

Fixed Divine Boon, Guilt, Mark of Subversion, Peace and Harmony, Shame, and Zealot's Fire so that when they say "when casting a skill/spell that targets an ally/enemy," they only trigger on targeted skills or spells, not on untargeted ones.

Steaming pile of yak dung... that made my day so far...

I Farm Sigils · Sep 12, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

um you still havent convinced me. To all who havent known that the trick was out of the bag, divine boon + P&H prot monk "was" the ownage.

I think most of the players that figured out how good Prot + Boon was, also saw how good E Drain, Inspired Hex, and Drain Enchantment are.

One of my friends actually uses P&H in PVE, but refuses to use Healing Breeze because it's "noob". I don't understand it.

Sep 09, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42	#29
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	I think it's a good change. Now people will stop using that steaming pile of yak dung and start using better elites, slowly but surely raising the quality of play in this game. Anything that raises the quality of builds, even if it's something absurd like this change, has to be viewed in a favorable light. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Sep 09, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54	#21
navy blue chuckz Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Guild: Am Fah Profession: N/	this was my primary means of energy regen. >.> anyone have any REPLACEMENTS? I don't like to use OoB, or MoR... WHAT ELSE IS THERE? SIGH

Sep 09, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27	#22
Shadowdaemon Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Anderson IN USA Guild: Ecks Di [xD] Profession: W/N	yeah it is about utterly useless now, elite my @$$

Sep 09, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14	#23
Dazzler Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Profession: E/Me	Energy Drain is the best energy management skill in the game for non-Ele primaries.

Sep 09, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38	#24
Kiiron Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: La Jolla Profession: Mo/R	This is definitely an unintended bug, and I hope it gets corrected soon - I miss my regen =(

Sep 09, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59	#25
Morello Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Redmond, WA Guild: The Fianna Profession: Me/Mo	It seems like a consistancy thing to me. Look at other skills that work on "spells that target an ally" and they work the same way. Does this mean P&H isn't underpowered? Of course not - it's probably one of the worst elites in the game right now. But it does mean that there's hope for it getting fixed if it was a result of a blanket change rather than a specific skill balance issue.

Sep 09, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25	#26
jdwoody Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin	Logically I can understand with the changes that were made why it doesn't work the way it used to. But my gut tells me that peace and harmony should not end when I cast Heal Party. (Especially when I see the divine bonus over my head which tells me I was the target) Regardless I won't be using it any time soon...

Sep 09, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19	#27
Dazzler Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Profession: E/Me	Yeah I understand why it changed. But now that it is "fixed" for all "targetted" spells, they need to come adjust the balance of P&H. Obviously the intention of this spell is to grant you an E bonus as long as you perform "peaceful" actions. They just need to change the spell to work as such.

Sep 09, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57	#28
Tactical-Dillusions Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2005 Location: Grimsby, UK Profession: R/	When i first used peace and harmony after the update, i was wondering why it was ending. After reading this thread and finding out WHY it was ending, i am absolutely appalled. This was my favourite elite skill for healing my teammates and myself. I sometimes used it with divine boon so i could do a good job for my team and keep my energy management fairly decent. ArenaNet needs to consider changing peace and harmony back. I'd also love to know why their public relations officer said that they have nothing against farmers, but the update was full of nerfs to the contrary. They nerf the skills for solo players and at the same time, that nerf affects team players. Such B.S. and i for one am not happy with this aspect of the update. I thought everything was F'ing brilliant until i read this thread. I'm tempted to rant on but i think i've made my opinion. >> <<

Sep 10, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19	#31
audioaxes Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005	DOnt want to turn this into a argument on whether or not peace and harmony was a good elite but when everything hits the fan and every monk becomes a pay check to pay check 5 energy heal to stay alive, that extra pip comes mighty useful in keeping your mana rolling at a constant pace so you have more breathing room. And in 8v8 if you have a 20% longer staff wrapping and 20% faster recast you can get all 3 monks the peace and harmony enchant and can easily do a two monk cycle keeping both under P&H at all times baring strip.

Sep 10, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37	#33
Numa Pompilius Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: At an Insit.. Intis... a house. Guild: Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF] Profession: W/Me	So why was it nerfed? Was it used to fuel untargeted PBAoE effects like aura, zealots and wrath?

Sep 10, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02	#34
audioaxes Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005	um you still havent convinced me. To all who havent known that the trick was out of the bag, divine boon + P&H prot monk "was" the ownage.

Sep 11, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53	#37
Racthoh Did I hear 7 heroes? Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)	From the update page: Fixed Divine Boon, Guilt, Mark of Subversion, Peace and Harmony, Shame, and Zealot's Fire so that when they say "when casting a skill/spell that targets an ally/enemy," they only trigger on targeted skills or spells, not on untargeted ones. Steaming pile of yak dung... that made my day so far...