HMM.... Penetration or Damage? - Guild Wars Forums

888 ate 888 · Oct 27, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

which of these gets priority?

penetration or +damage %?

for example lets say you have 10 ranks in strenght which is 10%AP

and you custmized your sword (+20%).

how much dmg would you do? (you have 12 swordsmanship and foe has 60 armor) both lvl 20

would you count AP first then apply the +20% dmg?

or would you count +20% dmg then AP?

thanks everyone!

Savio · Oct 27, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

It wouldn't change anything either way.

888 ate 888 · Oct 28, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

oh and also when you apply Ap and Dmg, do you take both it out of the original damage? i.e 15-22 becomes 15-22 + 20% which is 18-26 aprroximately, and then add the AP to the 18-26?

or do you add dmg which is 18-26 and the apply AP to original dmg(15-22)

and add them together?

thnaks again

ps why wouldnt it matter?

if you have more armor penetration and more +dmg than my example it would, wouldnt it?

lets say you have a hammer 19-35
and +50%damage and +30%AP

if you go dmg first it will be (50% of 35, which is 17, then add it=52) then apply ap to 52 which is approx. +18 dmg. so it becomes +70 dmg.

if you go AP fisrt it will be (30% of 60 armor which is reduced to 42 ARwhic h lets you do approximately +18dmg. it becomes 53. then you apply +50% dmg and it becomes+26 dmg so it makes about 80 dmg)

wait your right if you apply it to teh original damage for both AP and dMG

Savio · Oct 28, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Okay, example: say you're doing max with hammer - 35 damage - against a 60 AL target.

Read the Treatise on Combat Mathematics by Ensign here. It'll help in understanding this explanation.

10% AP against a 60 AL target means it basically has 50 AL. You'd be doing 18.9% more damage. You also have 20% more damage from customization.

Damage done:
AP first: (35 * 1.189) * 1.2 = 41.615 * 1.2 = 49.938
Customization first: (35 * 1.2) * 1.189 = 42 * 1.189 = 49.938

Either way, whether you're calculating AP or customization first, it's the same amount of damage. It's called the associative property in mathematics; it doesn't matter what you multiply in first. Hope that helps.

Shifty Geezer · Oct 28, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32

So the 25% AP of lightning damage acutally does a lot more damage? I thought it meant < 25% extra damage, but I guess Lightning might be worth investing in if you're actually getting much greater returns than that. About how much extra damage would 25% AP on a Lightning Spear at 50 damage add to the real damage caused on a level 60 AL foe?

Thock · Oct 28, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Okay, example: say you're doing max with hammer - 35 damage - against a 60 AL target.

Read the Treatise on Combat Mathematics by Ensign here. It'll help in understanding this explanation.

10% AP against a 60 AL target means it basically has 50 AL. You'd be doing 18.9% more damage. You also have 20% more damage from customization.

Damage done:
AP first: (35 * 1.189) * 1.2 = 41.615 * 1.2 = 49.938
Customization first: (35 * 1.2) * 1.189 = 42 * 1.189 = 49.938

Either way, whether you're calculating AP or customization first, it's the same amount of damage. It's called the associative property in mathematics; it doesn't matter what you multiply in first. Hope that helps.

Actually 10% of 60 is 6 which is 54. Not trying to flame or troll.

LifeInfusion · Oct 28, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

If this game were all about "damage" then fire ele. would always win versus everything.

What about HEXES? Conditions? Interrupts? Armor ignoring damage? Cooldown? Energy... The list goes on.

All but fire has a versatile line of utility, air has blind, knockdown ; water has snares, blurred vision, wards, defbuffs; earth has wards, armor boost, armor ignoring damage.

To say "fire is the best" is to still be in the ignorant mentality that this a typical RPG where your level matters and equipment too. THIS IS NOT THAT KIND OF GAME.

You must use your strategy to outperform the opponent, not smack the most damaging skills and then achieve victory.

888 ate 888 · Oct 28, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

thnaks the link!

Savio · Oct 29, 2005, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

Actually 10% of 60 is 6 which is 54. Not trying to flame or troll.

Yeah, sometimes I mess up on my math. It doesn't change much anyway.

Jenosavel · Oct 29, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

So the 25% AP of lightning damage acutally does a lot more damage? I thought it meant < 25% extra damage, but I guess Lightning might be worth investing in if you're actually getting much greater returns than that. About how much extra damage would 25% AP on a Lightning Spear at 50 damage add to the real damage caused on a level 60 AL foe?

Well, 25% armor penetration would bring an AL 60 target down to AL 45. Plugging that into the damage equations from the link above for a spell with a base damage of 50 would give you (obviously) 50 damage when there is no armor penetration involved, and approximately 65 damage when you take into account the armor penetration. Keep in mind that 60 is the low end of final armor, and the higher your opponent's AL, the more armor penetration is going to damage.

Shifty Geezer · Oct 30, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

As much as 30% eh? Thanks for the explanation Jenosavel.

@ LifeInfusion : You're right, but what has that got to do with this thread? This thread is asking which does more damage so we can choose which spells work best with our strategies.

Oct 27, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24	#1
888 ate 888 Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: W/	HMM.... Penetration or Damage? which of these gets priority? penetration or +damage %? for example lets say you have 10 ranks in strenght which is 10%AP and you custmized your sword (+20%). how much dmg would you do? (you have 12 swordsmanship and foe has 60 armor) both lvl 20 would you count AP first then apply the +20% dmg? or would you count +20% dmg then AP? thanks everyone!

Oct 27, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29	#2
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	It wouldn't change anything either way.

Oct 28, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21	#3
888 ate 888 Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: W/	oh and also when you apply Ap and Dmg, do you take both it out of the original damage? i.e 15-22 becomes 15-22 + 20% which is 18-26 aprroximately, and then add the AP to the 18-26? or do you add dmg which is 18-26 and the apply AP to original dmg(15-22) and add them together? thnaks again ps why wouldnt it matter? if you have more armor penetration and more +dmg than my example it would, wouldnt it? lets say you have a hammer 19-35 and +50%damage and +30%AP if you go dmg first it will be (50% of 35, which is 17, then add it=52) then apply ap to 52 which is approx. +18 dmg. so it becomes +70 dmg. if you go AP fisrt it will be (30% of 60 armor which is reduced to 42 ARwhic h lets you do approximately +18dmg. it becomes 53. then you apply +50% dmg and it becomes+26 dmg so it makes about 80 dmg) wait your right if you apply it to teh original damage for both AP and dMG

Oct 28, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36	#4
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Okay, example: say you're doing max with hammer - 35 damage - against a 60 AL target. Read the Treatise on Combat Mathematics by Ensign here. It'll help in understanding this explanation. 10% AP against a 60 AL target means it basically has 50 AL. You'd be doing 18.9% more damage. You also have 20% more damage from customization. Damage done: AP first: (35 * 1.189) * 1.2 = 41.615 * 1.2 = 49.938 Customization first: (35 * 1.2) * 1.189 = 42 * 1.189 = 49.938 Either way, whether you're calculating AP or customization first, it's the same amount of damage. It's called the associative property in mathematics; it doesn't matter what you multiply in first. Hope that helps.

Oct 28, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32	#5
Shifty Geezer Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Luckless Marauders [OOPS] Profession: E/Mo	So the 25% AP of lightning damage acutally does a lot more damage? I thought it meant < 25% extra damage, but I guess Lightning might be worth investing in if you're actually getting much greater returns than that. About how much extra damage would 25% AP on a Lightning Spear at 50 damage add to the real damage caused on a level 60 AL foe?

Oct 28, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05	#7
LifeInfusion Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: in the midline Profession: E/Mo	If this game were all about "damage" then fire ele. would always win versus everything. What about HEXES? Conditions? Interrupts? Armor ignoring damage? Cooldown? Energy... The list goes on. All but fire has a versatile line of utility, air has blind, knockdown ; water has snares, blurred vision, wards, defbuffs; earth has wards, armor boost, armor ignoring damage. To say "fire is the best" is to still be in the ignorant mentality that this a typical RPG where your level matters and equipment too. THIS IS NOT THAT KIND OF GAME. You must use your strategy to outperform the opponent, not smack the most damaging skills and then achieve victory.

Oct 28, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18	#8
888 ate 888 Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: W/	thnaks the link!

Oct 30, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57	#11
Shifty Geezer Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Luckless Marauders [OOPS] Profession: E/Mo	As much as 30% eh? Thanks for the explanation Jenosavel. @ LifeInfusion : You're right, but what has that got to do with this thread? This thread is asking which does more damage so we can choose which spells work best with our strategies.