Warrior Roles: are we all just modified dmg? - Guild Wars Forums

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 30, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

After spending many enjoyable times here at Guru, I've read and read and asked questions, chewed through articles, read from both noobs and 'pros' alike...

And all seem to be pointing in one direction.

Warrior: is ignored all the time, and must ONLY DO AS MUCH DMG AS POSSIBLE...

Do we warriors have no other role? Is any other role a warrior is capable of using JUST NOT worth it due to the fact that other classes supposedly have an edge over us in anything BUT damage?

I've tried many times and sadly, NOBODY is going to try and say otherwise. It's like all warrior's may as well be warrior pure builds [with no 2ndary builds] since, "oh, you should only do as much damage as possible..."

My most important question regarding this is... With this much supposedly 'good' advice, do you think it'd be a good idea for every warrior in existance to stop being what they like and just follow 'damage is God' motto just for efficiency's sake?

(this is in notes of pvp since in pve, tanking is usually brain-dead easy...)

Sure there's the Blackout W/Me, but outside that, there's REALLY no other warrior build out there that doesn't just drop everything and do just damage... [sounds kinda nooby, one side, and elitist at the same time...]

I've always been in favor of both damage and disruption builds on a warrior. [and thankfully, one of my 'near perfect' builds has a soft and sexy supple blend of both...]

But lately, "DAMAGE ONLY SINCE EVERYONE IGNORES YOU..."

What's your thoughts on this question/theory?

Puddin Tame · Aug 30, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

This is PvP right?
Let's see....
They uhhh... err... wai-, no....
I guess hammer warriors can sort of interrupt, with the knockdown and that. A few conditions (deep wound, bleeding, cripple, apply poison + cyclone axe/hundred blades). But then again, rangers would make better poisoners, cripplers, and possibly bleeders than warriors.
Well, errr... Maybe a team of W/Mo's can stay alive until the other teams quit?

ZeR04U · Aug 30, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57

hmm, I disagree.

Warrior/Monk: Tank
Warrior/Ele: Hammer+Aftershock combo and knockdown
Warrior/Mesmer: Blackout
Warrior/Ranger: Pets/with a monk - balthazar's aura (plus you can throw some points in for troll uguent. Allocate points in beast mastery, swords, wilderness, and tactics or whatever).

I think they have their uses.

Puddin Tame · Aug 30, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeR04U

hmm, I disagree.

Warrior/Monk: Tank
Warrior/Ele: Hammer+Aftershock combo and knockdown
Warrior/Mesmer: Blackout
Warrior/Ranger: Pets/with a monk - balthazar's aura (plus you can throw some points in for troll uguent. Allocate points in beast mastery, swords, wilderness, and tactics or whatever).

I think they have their uses.

This was meant for PvP, for all the good tanking does there. W/Me was mentioned.
All the rest are just damage.

ZeR04U · Aug 30, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

I have seen hammer+aftershock dominate in PVP, as have I seen balth's aura on pets do the same.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 30, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Knockdown isn't for interruption, I've learned that knockdown PROBABLY has the most dmg output in the game from a well built secondary profession.

Knockdown Aftershock
[or my fav]
Knockdown Holy Strike

Easily beats other weapons in the fact that the target you've chosen CAN'T do anything to retaliate and has to rely solely on a teammate monk's help [who, if your team knows what's up, is probably flat on his ass as well...]

No tanking builds please, I mentioned that already, purely from a pvp standpoint
[16 weaponry is a must... - iQ]

That just proves my point. And what a billion other elite people are saying. The ONLY reason any Warrior would do that to their weapon skill is to just that... The most damage possible.

Everything [or at least the majority] of things I've read for a warrior in pvp is ONLY about damage. It's as if Wars truely don't have any other role in this game... A 'noob' warrior is one that doesn't do just damage it seems... [at least that's what I think the elitist guilds are saying. Unless you're a damage oriented Warrior in pvp, you suck...]

I'm just wondering if that's true, then warriors truely are, at least in pvp, the most one-dimensional, simpleminded, any-idiot-can-make-it-work, type of class, and frankly, that's a shame... at least to me it is... Especially since all the supposed [expert] guilds are saying this...

Santanus_Perro · Aug 30, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I love my w/mo KD/HS toon. Ton of damage, four different kd skills, plus distracting blow (no damage, but disrupts a skill). I take no healing whatsoever. Attribute points is in hammer, strength and smite (bane signet & holy strike)

counter blow
devastating hammer
crushing blow
heavy blow
bane signet
holy strike
distracting blow
rez sig

Torkemada · Aug 30, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

I agree. 90% out there is damage dealing warriors, and i also agree that there are other roles for warrior.

I've developed some warrior builds for my clanmates that actually dont do so much damage, but just beacause the build is intended to work differently.

Instead of using pure weaponry and strength, i've worked on at least 3 different builds wich depend on Tactics, a low requirement weapon (allowing you to give your normal attacks max damage without using so many points) and using those points on several secondary professions.

I agree its simpleminded to think warriors are only out there to do max damage. Even when the warrior low energy pool can seem crippling there are lots of skills and items that can help you get a warrior a decent energy pool to use some very nice skills.

Those combos are out there, just in front of us, it just requires to sit down a bit, knowing the skills and how they work, and doing some homework on how this skills can work with other classes skills.

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path..."

Count Feanor · Aug 30, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I'm working on my Warrior/Necro to find a good PvP build. Still working on it as I use a hammer and the lack of energy limits my options. I'll figure out a way.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 30, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santanus_Perro

I love my w/mo KD/HS toon. Ton of damage, four different kd skills, plus distracting blow (no damage, but disrupts a skill). I take no healing whatsoever. Attribute points is in hammer, strength and smite (bane signet & holy strike)

counter blow
devastating hammer
crushing blow
heavy blow
bane signet
holy strike
distracting blow
rez sig

You're not helping any. In fact, you're one of the billions of people this thread is writing about... I know how to do high dmg warrior builds... The idea is, does that mean if you don't, you suck as a warrior?

Enix · Aug 30, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I think there is much to be said for the Anit-Warrior Warrior, aka MeatShield, aka Defensive Tank. Playing in PvE, it seems many many Warriors DONT know how to proporly Tank. A Warriors true role should be as a tactician with a few specific damage skills to use opportunisticly. If you want high damage output, go with an Ele.

Jhyphi · Aug 30, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Well, how about this, what would you like us to say it does?

Oh yea, sure, warriors are great at healing.
Did I mention they're also great at exploiting corpses and attacking from a distance?

Santanus_Perro · Aug 30, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I am helping. I am showing that a warrior can be more than max dmg. He can effectively shut down a character and still do some great damage. All I have heard from PvPers is warriors suck because we can't do enough damage. I am showing we can do great damage and be effective in shutting someone down. Thank you for ignoring the overall context of my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

You're not helping any. In fact, you're one of the billions of people this thread is writing about... I know how to do high dmg warrior builds... The idea is, does that mean if you don't, you suck as a warrior?

Sofonisba · Aug 30, 2005, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Feanor

I'm working on my Warrior/Necro to find a good PvP build. Still working on it as I use a hammer and the lack of energy limits my options. I'll figure out a way.

Yes, rend/strip enchantments on those tanking Mo/W's that you see even more than you ever saw W/Mo before!

Red Sonya · Aug 30, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Balanced stance takes care of hammer warriors nicely and my warrior eats them for lunch before balanced stance wears off, key is "tactics" and DPS. If you've got them in running mode not much chance for them to be knocking you down or doing anything else. There's 150 skills between two classes, I don't think anyone has really analyzed them all yet to determine that warriors should be pure warriors only, there's plenty of main and 2ndary combos that make for better dps than just plain ole warrior class.

Darkest Dawn · Aug 30, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

I admit..... I'm a dps warrior. In GvG damage warriors dominate. Well, at least the few dozen matches our guild have fought. In PvP, I can only speculate. I like using whirlwind and had it on my skillbar until I switched my secondary. But ultimately, I have never felt a need to be other than a dps build. Even with gladiator armor, it only adds a few points, and the regen is slower than dog. So I don't really waste my time trying to be a spell caster with big arms... lol

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 30, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santanus_Perro

I am helping. I am showing that a warrior can be more than max dmg. He can effectively shut down a character and still do some great damage. All I have heard from PvPers is warriors suck because we can't do enough damage. I am showing we can do great damage and be effective in shutting someone down. Thank you for ignoring the overall context of my post.

Little thought there, I've used a build similar to yours and it outputs A LOT of extremely devastating hp ripping skills. If you made a build that didn't do THAT much damage, I'd actually notice you're shutting them down... However, the fact that you're coupling damage with shutdown is a good sign, still, you're still falling into the theory of this thread... You're still just another form of STUPIDLY HIGH damage...

edit* So far, it seems that everyone STILL thinks that a warrior without ridiculously high damage output is bad. [at least everyone who's posted in this thread...] I personally have made condition running warriors who fare pretty well, however, there's still the notion that damage is everything. [and yes, I understand hammers shut you down, I've probably played this game longer than you *unless you're an alpha tester*] But hammers have the HIGHEST damage ceiling and if you're critting a lot due to 16 hammer mastery, then yeah, you're damage is still extremely high dmg and thus your warrior is non-noob... [to the elitists at least...]

Drinking Frog · Aug 30, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Through the tactics skills, a warrior can effectively turn a caster into a tank for a short time. That takes some pressure off a monk. If the caster's attacker is not the called target, the warrior also allows the caster and the rest of the group to continue working against the called target or to go after the attacker. If the warrior is very good, it can shut that attacker down while pounding hell out of it, essentially waging an effective offense on two fronts. In an emergency, Charge also can get a couple characters' chestnuts out of the fire.

It may be a simple endeavor to deal great damage as a warrior. To hold the front line so that your ranged attackers and healers can do their thing with minimal hassle while also using your endurance and tactics to protect them takes some truly three-dimensional play and a warrior.

Torkemada · Aug 30, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

So far, it seems that everyone STILL thinks that a warrior without ridiculously high damage output is bad. [at least everyone who's posted in this thread...]

As you can see in my post, i agree with you. Warriors can do others things than dps or being massive damage dealers.
I just dont like generalization.

Thats all.

Dazzler · Aug 31, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I have fun with my W/Me. She disrupts and he cranks out the damage. I run with 20E yet I never have an E problem and can disrupt my target as fast as my skills recharge.

I forget my exact attributes, but it is something like:
Axe: 16
Strength: 9
Inspiration: around 6
Domination: around 9 or so.

Power Drain
Power Leak
Leech Signet
Cleave {E}
Executioner's Strike
Sprint
Warrior's Cunning
Rez Signet

Aug 30, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14	#1
Yukito Kunisaki Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Profession: W/N	Warrior Roles: are we all just modified dmg? After spending many enjoyable times here at Guru, I've read and read and asked questions, chewed through articles, read from both noobs and 'pros' alike... And all seem to be pointing in one direction. Warrior: is ignored all the time, and must ONLY DO AS MUCH DMG AS POSSIBLE... Do we warriors have no other role? Is any other role a warrior is capable of using JUST NOT worth it due to the fact that other classes supposedly have an edge over us in anything BUT damage? I've tried many times and sadly, NOBODY is going to try and say otherwise. It's like all warrior's may as well be warrior pure builds [with no 2ndary builds] since, "oh, you should only do as much damage as possible..." My most important question regarding this is... With this much supposedly 'good' advice, do you think it'd be a good idea for every warrior in existance to stop being what they like and just follow 'damage is God' motto just for efficiency's sake? (this is in notes of pvp since in pve, tanking is usually brain-dead easy...) Sure there's the Blackout W/Me, but outside that, there's REALLY no other warrior build out there that doesn't just drop everything and do just damage... [sounds kinda nooby, one side, and elitist at the same time...] I've always been in favor of both damage and disruption builds on a warrior. [and thankfully, one of my 'near perfect' builds has a soft and sexy supple blend of both...] But lately, "DAMAGE ONLY SINCE EVERYONE IGNORES YOU..." What's your thoughts on this question/theory?

Aug 30, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25	#7
Santanus_Perro Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scott Township, PA Guild: Iron Rangers Profession: W/Mo	I love my w/mo KD/HS toon. Ton of damage, four different kd skills, plus distracting blow (no damage, but disrupts a skill). I take no healing whatsoever. Attribute points is in hammer, strength and smite (bane signet & holy strike) counter blow devastating hammer crushing blow heavy blow bane signet holy strike distracting blow rez sig Last edited by Santanus_Perro; Aug 30, 2005 at 04:30 PM // 16:30..

Aug 30, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54	#2
Puddin Tame Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Wouldn't you like to know Guild: Pretty Horsies Arouse Greatly Profession: R/	This is PvP right? Let's see.... They uhhh... err... wai-, no.... I guess hammer warriors can sort of interrupt, with the knockdown and that. A few conditions (deep wound, bleeding, cripple, apply poison + cyclone axe/hundred blades). But then again, rangers would make better poisoners, cripplers, and possibly bleeders than warriors. Well, errr... Maybe a team of W/Mo's can stay alive until the other teams quit?

Aug 30, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57	#3
ZeR04U Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: None Profession: R/Me	hmm, I disagree. Warrior/Monk: Tank Warrior/Ele: Hammer+Aftershock combo and knockdown Warrior/Mesmer: Blackout Warrior/Ranger: Pets/with a monk - balthazar's aura (plus you can throw some points in for troll uguent. Allocate points in beast mastery, swords, wilderness, and tactics or whatever). I think they have their uses.

Aug 30, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49	#5
ZeR04U Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: None Profession: R/Me	I have seen hammer+aftershock dominate in PVP, as have I seen balth's aura on pets do the same.

Aug 30, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12	#6
Yukito Kunisaki Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Profession: W/N	Knockdown isn't for interruption, I've learned that knockdown PROBABLY has the most dmg output in the game from a well built secondary profession. Knockdown Aftershock [or my fav] Knockdown Holy Strike Easily beats other weapons in the fact that the target you've chosen CAN'T do anything to retaliate and has to rely solely on a teammate monk's help [who, if your team knows what's up, is probably flat on his ass as well...] No tanking builds please, I mentioned that already, purely from a pvp standpoint [16 weaponry is a must... - iQ] That just proves my point. And what a billion other elite people are saying. The ONLY reason any Warrior would do that to their weapon skill is to just that... The most damage possible. Everything [or at least the majority] of things I've read for a warrior in pvp is ONLY about damage. It's as if Wars truely don't have any other role in this game... A 'noob' warrior is one that doesn't do just damage it seems... [at least that's what I think the elitist guilds are saying. Unless you're a damage oriented Warrior in pvp, you suck...] I'm just wondering if that's true, then warriors truely are, at least in pvp, the most one-dimensional, simpleminded, any-idiot-can-make-it-work, type of class, and frankly, that's a shame... at least to me it is... Especially since all the supposed [expert] guilds are saying this...

Aug 30, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28	#8
Torkemada Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Argentina Guild: EC - The Epic Crusade Profession: Mo/Me	I agree. 90% out there is damage dealing warriors, and i also agree that there are other roles for warrior. I've developed some warrior builds for my clanmates that actually dont do so much damage, but just beacause the build is intended to work differently. Instead of using pure weaponry and strength, i've worked on at least 3 different builds wich depend on Tactics, a low requirement weapon (allowing you to give your normal attacks max damage without using so many points) and using those points on several secondary professions. I agree its simpleminded to think warriors are only out there to do max damage. Even when the warrior low energy pool can seem crippling there are lots of skills and items that can help you get a warrior a decent energy pool to use some very nice skills. Those combos are out there, just in front of us, it just requires to sit down a bit, knowing the skills and how they work, and doing some homework on how this skills can work with other classes skills. "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path..."

Aug 30, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43	#9
Count Feanor Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hellsing Organization or... RIGHT BEHIND YOU!! Guild: The Royal Priesthood Profession: N/W	I'm working on my Warrior/Necro to find a good PvP build. Still working on it as I use a hammer and the lack of energy limits my options. I'll figure out a way.

Aug 30, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02	#11
Enix Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: I am in a transitional period. Guild: GRE	I think there is much to be said for the Anit-Warrior Warrior, aka MeatShield, aka Defensive Tank. Playing in PvE, it seems many many Warriors DONT know how to proporly Tank. A Warriors true role should be as a tactician with a few specific damage skills to use opportunisticly. If you want high damage output, go with an Ele.

Aug 30, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08	#12
Jhyphi Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: R/Me	Well, how about this, what would you like us to say it does? Oh yea, sure, warriors are great at healing. Did I mention they're also great at exploiting corpses and attacking from a distance?

Aug 30, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59	#15
Red Sonya Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005	Balanced stance takes care of hammer warriors nicely and my warrior eats them for lunch before balanced stance wears off, key is "tactics" and DPS. If you've got them in running mode not much chance for them to be knocking you down or doing anything else. There's 150 skills between two classes, I don't think anyone has really analyzed them all yet to determine that warriors should be pure warriors only, there's plenty of main and 2ndary combos that make for better dps than just plain ole warrior class.

Aug 30, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26	#16
Darkest Dawn Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ohio, USA Profession: W/Mo	I admit..... I'm a dps warrior. In GvG damage warriors dominate. Well, at least the few dozen matches our guild have fought. In PvP, I can only speculate. I like using whirlwind and had it on my skillbar until I switched my secondary. But ultimately, I have never felt a need to be other than a dps build. Even with gladiator armor, it only adds a few points, and the regen is slower than dog. So I don't really waste my time trying to be a spell caster with big arms... lol

Aug 30, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57	#18
Drinking Frog Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2005	Through the tactics skills, a warrior can effectively turn a caster into a tank for a short time. That takes some pressure off a monk. If the caster's attacker is not the called target, the warrior also allows the caster and the rest of the group to continue working against the called target or to go after the attacker. If the warrior is very good, it can shut that attacker down while pounding hell out of it, essentially waging an effective offense on two fronts. In an emergency, Charge also can get a couple characters' chestnuts out of the fire. It may be a simple endeavor to deal great damage as a warrior. To hold the front line so that your ranged attackers and healers can do their thing with minimal hassle while also using your endurance and tactics to protect them takes some truly three-dimensional play and a warrior.

Aug 31, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42	#20
Dazzler Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Profession: E/Me	I have fun with my W/Me. She disrupts and he cranks out the damage. I run with 20E yet I never have an E problem and can disrupt my target as fast as my skills recharge. I forget my exact attributes, but it is something like: Axe: 16 Strength: 9 Inspiration: around 6 Domination: around 9 or so. Power Drain Power Leak Leech Signet Cleave {E} Executioner's Strike Sprint Warrior's Cunning Rez Signet