Weapon Requirments YOU NEED 12 In sword/axe etc to get full damage! - Guild Wars Forums

warrior · Jan 01, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

I get so annoyed at people PMing me saying a weapon with req 10 is crap and they want to have a max of 8 in sword/axe and use a req 8 sword and think they getting that weapons full damage (i.e whatever it says on the weapon 12-19 15-22 etc)

I try to explain to them that you need 12 in sword/axe/hammer regardless of whether its a req 7,8,9 or 10 to get that weapons FULL damage potential (i.e whatevers writen on the text of the weapon)

Take a guy that has a 15-22 dam sword with req 9 and you have 9 in Swordmanship you will only be doing 77.1% of the potential damage of that sword.

Now put 12 in swordmanship and you will be doing 100% of the 15-22 of the sword

You want proof?? well here it is on this very site

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php

Attribute
Level Percent of
Weapon Damage
0 35.6%
1 38.6%
2 42.0%
3 45.9%
4 50.0%
5 54.5%
6 59.5%
7 64.8%
8 70.7%
9 77.1%
10 84.1%
11 91.7%
12 100%
13 104%
14 107%
15 111%
16 115%

And thats the table from the link as you can se you NEED 12 to get whats writen on the text of the weapon

Now everyone read that link and buy your cheaper req 12 weapons

chippxero · Jan 01, 2006, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Surely your problem is with people in game not knowing this information, most people in the forums would have read and known this already.

You need to give the link in your post to the people that PM you to point them to the information.

IMehler · Jan 01, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

i have a question.

when i have swordmanship 12. and a sword with 15-22 damage.

does a req. 8 sword do more damage then a req. 12 sword?

cagan · Jan 01, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

nope, not at all,
if you meet the req, you get the full damage potential, modified by the percentage warrior has listed, if you don't meet the req, the weapon is treated as being .. bad, 2-4 damage.

warrior · Jan 01, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cagan

nope, not at all,
if you meet the req, you get the full damage potential, modified I provided in the link and dont givby the percentage warrior has listed, if you don't meet the req, the weapon is treated as being .. bad, 2-4 damage.

YEP

warrior · Jan 01, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

This is the same I believe for beast mastery and the damage potential your pets does.

Caleb · Jan 01, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior

No you DONT get the full damage potential if you meet the weapons requirments read the god dam artical that I provided in the link and dont give out miss information.

Err, you will probably feel foolish when you reread his comment and see he is answering (correctly no less) the poster above him who asked about a req 8 vs a req 12 weapon doing different damages at the same skill attribute level.

But maybe yelling and cursing feels better than reading and spelling correctly??

warrior · Jan 01, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb The Pontiff

Err, you will probably feel foolish when you reread his comment and see he is answering (correctly no less) the poster above him who asked about a req 8 vs a req 12 weapon doing different damages at the same skill attribute level.

But maybe yelling and cursing feels better than reading and spelling correctly??

Yes notice my quick edit

Oh yeah I wrote this thread in a frenzy after having an argument with 3 level 20`s that think they know otherwise about this so sorry for the snappy comment that I gave after misreading (edited now)

IMehler · Jan 01, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29

one more question.

why do the level 8 req. weapsons cost so much more, if they arent better then level 12?

warrior · Jan 01, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMehler

one more question.

why do the level 8 req. weapsons cost so much more, if they arent better then level 12?

Just because of the nearer to PERFECTION value... just the same reason why a +14% dam and a +15% dam above 50% health weapon cost so much different in value...You will not notice the extra 1% but the difference in value is great.

Also you have more option with a req 8 over a req 12 i.e. you might not care about damage much and wish to do a little bit of damage and put the rest in tanking skills, but most warriors would put 12 in sword/axe etc if they all knew this.

IMehler · Jan 01, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

thx. its clear to me now.

BiggDunc · Jan 01, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

screw 12... i go 16... all the way... 115%FTW
and dont worry about mending, just kill ppl, lets ur monk handle ur hp

Andy_M · Jan 01, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Nice info. Although the majority of tanks don't need 100% plus damage. Just to keep the bad guys occupied with their shields of meatness..

Fyre Brand · Jan 01, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Warrior while what you say is true you are over simplifying the situation.

What most people mean when they talk about meeting the requirement is that you will be allowed to roll the maximum potential of the weapon. If you don't meet the requirement your roll in the base of the formula will be limited to a lesser value. The attribute value is part of the formula in the exponent. Both values affect the damage outcome of the weapon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Many of the weapons that you'll find require you to have a certain level in a linked attribute to be effective - Swords that require 9 Swordsmanship, Bows that require 7 Marksmanship, and the like. If you do not meet the requirements on a given weapon, your effectiveness with it will be greatly reduced.

Also wands and staves are treated differently:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

There's one more category of attacks to consider - attacking an enemy with a wand or staff. Wands and staves aren't weapons in the purest sense - a more apt description is 'skill on a stick', as the damage they deal scales up with your character level, not your weapon attribute. In other respects, they act like all other weapons.

Another important consideration when looking at that table and the damage return for attribute cost is this statement:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

While pumping up your weapon attribute continues to give outstanding, exponential returns on damage all the way to level 12, it drops off quickly after that. Attribute level 13 is less than half as effective as the previous level at raising your damage, and attribute level 14 is even worse. So while having a level 13 or 14 attribute might look good on your stat screen, it isn't doing a whole lot in game. You'd be better served lowering that attribute and investing elsewhere.

This also fits in with IMehler's question and Andy_M's answer. Tanks don't always need to achieve 100% damage potential (good examples of this are UW invinci tanks, Orozar farming tanks, etc) when they aren't really the damage dealers but the necro and smite monk are.
The reason why you might want a low req weapon is because you want the benefit of the maximum roll of the weapon, but your build is better suited to spending points in other areas.

It can be frustrating when trying to trade with people who are relying on inaccurate information. Getting mad at people because they haven't learned the game mechanics as thouroughly as you have kind of makes you sound like a jerk. Mechanics are really complicated and I'm sure if Ensign could go outside the bounds of his NDA he would explain even more and it would get even more complex. Try and be patient with those that are learning and just ignore and move on from those that don't want to listen.

Ensign · Jan 01, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior

And thats the table from the link as you can se you NEED 12 to get whats writen on the text of the weapon

I'll point out that this isn't strictly correct - the attribute level at which you start to suffer from diminishing returns scales up with your level, hitting 12 at level 20. If you're a level 4 character, for example, you start getting diminishing returns on your weapon attribute after level 3, even though you can pump your natural attribute level up to 5 at that point. I don't know exactly how it scales, but at level 20 the diminishing returns point is at 12 and since your character is going to spend most of his life at 20 that's what really matters in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyre Brand

What most people mean when they talk about meeting the requirement is that you will be allowed to roll the maximum potential of the weapon.

Right. The easiest way to put this is that weapon damage is equal to:

A*B

A depends *only* on the weapon's stats. If you meet the req it will be the listed damage - if you don't meet the req, it'll be the damage a newbie weapon deals.

B depends *only* on your attributes. The higher they are, the more damage you'll deal.

A low-req weapon is good if you want to get some use out of a weapon at that low attribute, but if you want to deal actual damage you're going to need high attributes no matter what the weapon says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyre Brand

Mechanics are really complicated and I'm sure if Ensign could go outside the bounds of his NDA he would explain even more and it would get even more complex.

I'm not under any sort of NDA. The things I haven't explained in depth, like critical hit percentages and how that diminishing returns point scales are simply things I still don't know right now. If there's anything you'd like me to explain better I can do my best to fill you in on it though.

Peace,
-CxE

Savio · Jan 02, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiggDunc

screw 12... i go 16... all the way... 115%FTW
and dont worry about mending, just kill ppl, lets ur monk handle ur hp

Same here, though I wouldn't even consider Mending.

Note that skill damage scales up differently than weapon damage; for example, the difference between Eviscerate at lvl 12 and lvl 16 Axe Mastery is 7 points of damage (+24 and +31 damage, respectively) - a 29% increase. Also, damage-dealing Warriors tend not to have many other attributes that are important to doing their main job, so there are few reasons why not to max out your weapon attribute.

Inureface · Jan 02, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

The point warrior is trying to make (I think) is, if you aren't going to max out your attribute for a certain weapon, don't even bother using it, as you'll be as useful with that weapon as the idiot smite monks who plague random arena (I had to say that lol). Its nice that you have a max req 7 furious fellblade of fortitude, have fun hitting 2s (no joke) on warriors.

KaptainKrash · Jan 02, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

I did it the other way with what seems to be reasonable success:

I got a req 9 sword +15% while enchanted as I use Balthazars Spirit a lot.

Bumped my swordsmanship to 9 so I get reasonable damage, then bumped tactics to 11 and strength to 15 (all with runes).

This way I do reasonable, though not great, damage with the sword, and let Bleeding and conditions do a lot of the work for me.

I have no idea how it would go PvP though it tanks fairly nicley in PvE and still maintains decent damage output over time.

I honestly dont think having my sword at 12 would make up for the lack of damage i'd see using Deadly Riposte and Desperation Blow, plus the additional damage I'd take not being able to keeps Dolyaks and Watch Youself up.

However, when I swap over to my heavy damage hammer/smite warrior my hammer skill goes back to 12.

In summary: It depends on what your trying to do. A low req sword _can_ be usefull.

dawnrain · Jan 02, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Ultimately people are paying for additional flexibility. Lower requirement weapons just give players more options when spreading their attribute points.

Who knows what "crazy" build someone will come up with that works out with a 7 point attribute in swords.

Fyre Brand · Jan 02, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

Ultimately people are paying for additional flexibility. Lower requirement weapons just give players more options when spreading their attribute points.

Who knows what "crazy" build someone will come up with that works out with a 7 point attribute in swords.

Thats pretty much what I think too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I'm not under any sort of NDA. The things I haven't explained in depth, like critical hit percentages and how that diminishing returns point scales are simply things I still don't know right now. If there's anything you'd like me to explain better I can do my best to fill you in on it though.

Ahh, I made an assumption there. The beta testers with super secret james bond info seem to have weird colors to their board names and after reading some of your posts I made that erroneous assumption. All apologies. I do occasionally come up with a question. If it's decent I will definitely ask.

I have been leveling a warrior recently and have been playing around with the diminishing returns idea. I have a max damage req 8 sword and then switched to axe with a max damage req 9 axe at about level 9 or 10. What worked for me was pumping my axe mastery up to 9 using cap plus superior rune. This allowed me the max roll from the weapon coupled with +15% dam. If the diminished return curve at lower levels is less than around level/2 + 4 then I found it offset by having max allowable rolls from the weapon.

Having a low req on a weapon is a great way to level your new character among the many other reasons to use one.

Jan 01, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26	#1
warrior Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Dec 2005	Weapon Requirments YOU NEED 12 In sword/axe etc to get full damage! I get so annoyed at people PMing me saying a weapon with req 10 is crap and they want to have a max of 8 in sword/axe and use a req 8 sword and think they getting that weapons full damage (i.e whatever it says on the weapon 12-19 15-22 etc) I try to explain to them that you need 12 in sword/axe/hammer regardless of whether its a req 7,8,9 or 10 to get that weapons FULL damage potential (i.e whatevers writen on the text of the weapon) Take a guy that has a 15-22 dam sword with req 9 and you have 9 in Swordmanship you will only be doing 77.1% of the potential damage of that sword. Now put 12 in swordmanship and you will be doing 100% of the 15-22 of the sword You want proof?? well here it is on this very site http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php Attribute Level Percent of Weapon Damage 0 35.6% 1 38.6% 2 42.0% 3 45.9% 4 50.0% 5 54.5% 6 59.5% 7 64.8% 8 70.7% 9 77.1% 10 84.1% 11 91.7% 12 100% 13 104% 14 107% 15 111% 16 115% And thats the table from the link as you can se you NEED 12 to get whats writen on the text of the weapon Now everyone read that link and buy your cheaper req 12 weapons

Jan 01, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55	#6
warrior Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Dec 2005	This is the same I believe for beast mastery and the damage potential your pets does. Last edited by warrior; Jan 01, 2006 at 11:19 AM // 11:19..

Jan 01, 2006, 10:40 AM // 10:40	#2
chippxero Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: norfolk Guild: Super Anti Rabbit Squad [SARS] Profession: Mo/Me	Surely your problem is with people in game not knowing this information, most people in the forums would have read and known this already. You need to give the link in your post to the people that PM you to point them to the information.

Jan 01, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43	#3
IMehler Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005	i have a question. when i have swordmanship 12. and a sword with 15-22 damage. does a req. 8 sword do more damage then a req. 12 sword?

Jan 01, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51	#4
cagan Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: Me/Mo	nope, not at all, if you meet the req, you get the full damage potential, modified by the percentage warrior has listed, if you don't meet the req, the weapon is treated as being .. bad, 2-4 damage.

Jan 01, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29	#9
IMehler Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005	one more question. why do the level 8 req. weapsons cost so much more, if they arent better then level 12?

Jan 01, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42	#11
IMehler Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005	thx. its clear to me now.

Jan 01, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47	#12
BiggDunc Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: StL Guild: [FahQ] Fierce Alliance HeadQuarters Profession: R/W	screw 12... i go 16... all the way... 115%FTW and dont worry about mending, just kill ppl, lets ur monk handle ur hp

Jan 01, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28	#13
Andy_M Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: Worthing, UK Guild: (Don't fear) The Beaver	Nice info. Although the majority of tanks don't need 100% plus damage. Just to keep the bad guys occupied with their shields of meatness..

Jan 02, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15	#17
Inureface Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Asian in Lousiana Guild: The Endbringers Profession: R/Me	The point warrior is trying to make (I think) is, if you aren't going to max out your attribute for a certain weapon, don't even bother using it, as you'll be as useful with that weapon as the idiot smite monks who plague random arena (I had to say that lol). Its nice that you have a max req 7 furious fellblade of fortitude, have fun hitting 2s (no joke) on warriors.

Jan 02, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34	#18
KaptainKrash Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: Unfettered View Profession: W/Mo	I did it the other way with what seems to be reasonable success: I got a req 9 sword +15% while enchanted as I use Balthazars Spirit a lot. Bumped my swordsmanship to 9 so I get reasonable damage, then bumped tactics to 11 and strength to 15 (all with runes). This way I do reasonable, though not great, damage with the sword, and let Bleeding and conditions do a lot of the work for me. I have no idea how it would go PvP though it tanks fairly nicley in PvE and still maintains decent damage output over time. I honestly dont think having my sword at 12 would make up for the lack of damage i'd see using Deadly Riposte and Desperation Blow, plus the additional damage I'd take not being able to keeps Dolyaks and Watch Youself up. However, when I swap over to my heavy damage hammer/smite warrior my hammer skill goes back to 12. In summary: It depends on what your trying to do. A low req sword _can_ be usefull.

Jan 02, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15	#19
dawnrain Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Nov 2005	Ultimately people are paying for additional flexibility. Lower requirement weapons just give players more options when spreading their attribute points. Who knows what "crazy" build someone will come up with that works out with a 7 point attribute in swords.