Did the AI update affect the henchmen? - Guild Wars Forums

Esprit · Jan 04, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

A few nights ago I was wanting to get one of my characters to Granite Citadel in order to participate in one of the Titan quests with my guildmates. Rather than ask my Guild or form a PUG, I decided to take henchmen. I had done it before.

Barely out of Coppermines I encounter the first trio of Ice Imps. After killing one Imp and moving onto a second, I notice Alesia, Lina, and Orion's healthbars dropping significantly fast. I hear the familiar 'clicks' of skills being interrupted, and I turn to look, and they are caught in the middle of a Maelstrom, and Lina and Alesia were still trying heal! Alesia dies, the remaining Imps are defeated and Alesia is ressurected.

Onto the a trio of Ice Imps and a few Ice Golems. Halfway through the battle, I hear the familiar sounds of skill interrupts. And there are Lina and Alesia, stuck in another Maelstrom, not moving, and still trying to heal. Consequently they both die, as they are also being targeted by the Golems.

I'd have thought the AI update would have made them move out of the AoE.

I don't recall the hench staying in the AoE after the update, but I also cannot recall them moving out of it. Do the healing henchmen have some sort of priority script, which forces them to heal, even if stuck in AoE? If it's Firestorm, or Lava Font, sure, heal and then move. But for Maelstrom or Meteor Shower, it is in their best interest to move and then heal.

Do you think this was an isolated incident, or have others had similar experiences?

CKaz · Jan 04, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I've noticed they seem to still be just as bad while invalidating some of their options. ie players have given up on firestorm, why can't Orion and Cynn?

Can we at some point have a healer which doesn't run PAST the front line?

Hydras still seem to own henches at Perdition Rock while Maelstorm doesn't do to them what it used to. So mobs get better, henches stayed stupid IMO.

Supposedly though if you're protecting someone the hench monk(s) may consider that fact. I've seen them ignore a NPC needing the help tho too.

shrug

CKaz

KiyaKoreena · Jan 04, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I am having the same experience with the henches staying in Maelstroms and continuing to try casting. Its very irritating since the enemies seem to know to run out of them. Even when I try moving a short distance to trigger the henches to move they will stubbornly stand there and take damage. That and when heading out for IDS hunting Alesia and Lina are tanking again....

I also noticed henches on Perdition Rock will stand in the Meteor Shower instead of running out from it. Maybe one of the patches reset the hench AI?

Cronniss · Jan 04, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

has anyone /bugged this?

Esprit · Jan 04, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I did end up sending a /bug report when it happened to me, because I thought that if the Titan Heart's, who heal, can move out of my Maelstrom's, while continuing to heal the other enemies, then my henchmen should be doing the same.

I usually don't take Orionn, but I figured that the ice creatures were weak against fire, and Orionn might actually prove useful. Which he was, at times, but it sure is scary seeing an enemy get dangerously close to another mob, with Stefan and Tom chasing after them, after a classic Orionn Firestorm.

Sol_Vie · Jan 04, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

No it didn't affect them. Which is the one problem I've had with the AoE 'nerf'.

Fye Duron · Jan 04, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I'm sick of the stupid hench men. we need some basic pet like commands for them. Like yeild, stay, attack, retreat. Instead of the current roll over and play dead if hit by any AoE

wilebill · Jan 04, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

ANet did give us the protector hench in the desert some patches back. But if there have been any other hench improvements since then, they have been so subtle I haven't noticed.

The henchmen are in many ways the heart and soul of this game for the majority of the players. ANet could have made helpful changes with very little effort, I do not know why they have not.

thelessa · Jan 04, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

yes, nice of them to improve the AI for the foes and NOT the henchmen.

darkMishkin · Jan 05, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

"Lava Avoidance" should be the first test henchmen have to complete before they leave Henching School.

Unfortunately, not one henchman has passed this test so far.

Manic Smile · Jan 05, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkMishkin

" Unfortunately, not one henchman has passed this test so far.

lol...

Kyle · Jan 05, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

I agree with everything. When i take henchies i try not to take orion. but i end up taking him because he does more damage than dunham who runs around casting distortion 24/7.

ugh henchies

Red Sonya · Jan 05, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Since the AI update, I leave the Mages and the Warriors at home. I take the 2 monks, the ranger, the necro and the mezzer now and it works great. No more AOE's running the mobs back into another group and we all get slaughtered. Been doing Grenth's (sp) Footprint with this group and it's great, even do some Sorrow's Furnace, but, still some parts that are pretty hard without some heavy dmg dealers. But, the warriors and the mages just get me/us into too much trouble for their worth.

You also need to change your 2ndary to monk class, so you can bring revive for those situations where it just doesn't matter Alesia/Mhenlo is going to die. lol Revive has a long distance rez and I've found it very useful when playing with henchies.

They really do need to adjust the AI of the healers though, they need to stay behind the main character at all times, never go past him or her and probably best have a 5ft to 10ft range. They also need to rez the main character faster. I've watched them rez other AI players before me and that really pissed me off when I could have saved the day. And I love this where the last one finally rezzes you or tries to just before they die and then you get swarmed and die again anyways. lol Great for the death penalty against you. And they need to fix them so they will run out from under AOE's as well.

LordMahal · Jan 05, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

The update was to make the AI smarter, the bad guys that is. You all ever notice that the henchies only use a couple of skills? I have 8 on my bar, what the hell do they have? Orion uses flare, firestorm, and one or two others, thats it. Ok thats 4, still got some room to work there. Im all for having a command option, nothing fancy maybe 4 or 6 commands, to tell my henchmen what to do. Something nice like regroup, and a command to keep the dumb ass monks from being in the front. ANET simply did a half ass AI update, made the enemies smarter, and henchies, well, they are still dumb.

Ashley Twig · Jan 05, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordMahal

Im all for having a command option, nothing fancy maybe 4 or 6 commands, to tell my henchmen what to do.

I also would like to pick the skills a hench will take on the team.

LordMahal · Jan 05, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Good call Ash...

thelessa · Jan 05, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

last night a friend and i took henchies out at perdition rock, healers run ahead and tank. when hit with meteor shower they just stand there and take it and die. at least there was no lava for them to stand in.

exiled mat · Jan 05, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

why can't anet make it so that you can use your other characters (if you have them) as henchies? They die atleast a lot slower

Glasswalker · Jan 06, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Agreed, henchmen need a major update. There are a couple of things I would teach henchmen. Heal/Protect the guy that is being targetted. Don't Res someone when you are being targetted and unprotected. Don't cast through Backfire! When you are being hit by 3 Trolls and Orion casts Firstorm on them, don't run! Condition/Hex removal would be awesome! If you see me walk all the way around a trap, there was probably a good reason why. Focus on one guy at a time -- Even if I die!!!!!!!!!

The list goes on. But frankly, I want to teach a lot of players some of the same rules. And yep, I still prefer Henchmen to players. Present company excluded, of course.

wilebill: I do remember one other improvement that ANet gave them, and that is to make their armor infused after Iron Mines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

players have given up on firestorm, why can't Orion and Cynn?

It's been a looooooong time, but don't I remember Cynn in Pre-Searing talking
about the superiority of Water Magic? Why does she carry Firestorm at all?

darkMishkin: I fear your Lava Avoidance course. There are a couple places in the last two missions where you have to run across a pool of lava. I can see myself now -- Alone against a Mursaat boss, 2 Jade Bows, an Ether Seal and a pair of Ettins, while Cynn and company stand on the other side of the pool going, "Noob!!!! He just ran straight across it!"

Red Sonya · Jan 06, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

I just did the Titan Quest with the henchies. I took them all (oh gawd the horror) and they died and died and died, lol, as soon as I see two or three drop I start running away and they are "suppose" to follow me, but, do they? NOOOOOO! they go deeper into the fray and then I play hell reviving them out of all those mobs.

LOL, when we got to the final boss they had to be a 60% DP. Cynn goes down quicker than you can say Owl squat. I had to literally kill one thing at a time and then run away. Revive everyone, kill another and another and finally the Boss. I never died.

It's so much better when I don't need to take Cynn or the Warriors. I can safely pull mobs away from other mobs and no AOE to make them run away. It really screwed up my smite build cause I loved Zealots Fire and Balthazar's Aura, but, I just changed them for Warriors Endurance and Frenzy and just kill one thing at a time quite fast and have unlimited energy while the Henchies just do their own thing lol. WARRIORS ENDURACE for the WIN!!

Jan 04, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08	#1
Esprit Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Dvd Forums [DVDF] Profession: E/	Did the AI update affect the henchmen? A few nights ago I was wanting to get one of my characters to Granite Citadel in order to participate in one of the Titan quests with my guildmates. Rather than ask my Guild or form a PUG, I decided to take henchmen. I had done it before. Barely out of Coppermines I encounter the first trio of Ice Imps. After killing one Imp and moving onto a second, I notice Alesia, Lina, and Orion's healthbars dropping significantly fast. I hear the familiar 'clicks' of skills being interrupted, and I turn to look, and they are caught in the middle of a Maelstrom, and Lina and Alesia were still trying heal! Alesia dies, the remaining Imps are defeated and Alesia is ressurected. Onto the a trio of Ice Imps and a few Ice Golems. Halfway through the battle, I hear the familiar sounds of skill interrupts. And there are Lina and Alesia, stuck in another Maelstrom, not moving, and still trying to heal. Consequently they both die, as they are also being targeted by the Golems. I'd have thought the AI update would have made them move out of the AoE. I don't recall the hench staying in the AoE after the update, but I also cannot recall them moving out of it. Do the healing henchmen have some sort of priority script, which forces them to heal, even if stuck in AoE? If it's Firestorm, or Lava Font, sure, heal and then move. But for Maelstrom or Meteor Shower, it is in their best interest to move and then heal. Do you think this was an isolated incident, or have others had similar experiences?

Jan 04, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42	#2
CKaz Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2005	yeah I've noticed they seem to still be just as bad while invalidating some of their options. ie players have given up on firestorm, why can't Orion and Cynn? Can we at some point have a healer which doesn't run PAST the front line? Hydras still seem to own henches at Perdition Rock while Maelstorm doesn't do to them what it used to. So mobs get better, henches stayed stupid IMO. Supposedly though if you're protecting someone the hench monk(s) may consider that fact. I've seen them ignore a NPC needing the help tho too. shrug CKaz

Jan 04, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45	#3
KiyaKoreena Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Guild: Kirins of Holy Light Profession: N/	I am having the same experience with the henches staying in Maelstroms and continuing to try casting. Its very irritating since the enemies seem to know to run out of them. Even when I try moving a short distance to trigger the henches to move they will stubbornly stand there and take damage. That and when heading out for IDS hunting Alesia and Lina are tanking again.... I also noticed henches on Perdition Rock will stand in the Meteor Shower instead of running out from it. Maybe one of the patches reset the hench AI?

Jan 04, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35	#4
Cronniss Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: The Wizard's Den Profession: N/Me	has anyone /bugged this?

Jan 04, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18	#5
Esprit Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Dvd Forums [DVDF] Profession: E/	I did end up sending a /bug report when it happened to me, because I thought that if the Titan Heart's, who heal, can move out of my Maelstrom's, while continuing to heal the other enemies, then my henchmen should be doing the same. I usually don't take Orionn, but I figured that the ice creatures were weak against fire, and Orionn might actually prove useful. Which he was, at times, but it sure is scary seeing an enemy get dangerously close to another mob, with Stefan and Tom chasing after them, after a classic Orionn Firestorm.

Jan 04, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25	#6
Sol_Vie Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston, MA Guild: Blood Of Orr [BoO]	No it didn't affect them. Which is the one problem I've had with the AoE 'nerf'.

Jan 04, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00	#7
Fye Duron Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: Chico, CA, USA Guild: Dragon Fang	I'm sick of the stupid hench men. we need some basic pet like commands for them. Like yeild, stay, attack, retreat. Instead of the current roll over and play dead if hit by any AoE

Jan 04, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18	#8
wilebill Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt Vernon, Ohio Guild: Band of the Hawk Profession: W/Mo	ANet did give us the protector hench in the desert some patches back. But if there have been any other hench improvements since then, they have been so subtle I haven't noticed. The henchmen are in many ways the heart and soul of this game for the majority of the players. ANet could have made helpful changes with very little effort, I do not know why they have not.

Jan 04, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40	#9
thelessa Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Texas Guild: Purple Puzycats Profession: R/Mo	yes, nice of them to improve the AI for the foes and NOT the henchmen.

Jan 05, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10	#10
darkMishkin Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: Mo/	"Lava Avoidance" should be the first test henchmen have to complete before they leave Henching School. Unfortunately, not one henchman has passed this test so far.

Jan 05, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06	#12
Kyle Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Legends Of Teh Industry [XXX]	I agree with everything. When i take henchies i try not to take orion. but i end up taking him because he does more damage than dunham who runs around casting distortion 24/7. ugh henchies

Jan 05, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28	#13
Red Sonya Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005	Since the AI update, I leave the Mages and the Warriors at home. I take the 2 monks, the ranger, the necro and the mezzer now and it works great. No more AOE's running the mobs back into another group and we all get slaughtered. Been doing Grenth's (sp) Footprint with this group and it's great, even do some Sorrow's Furnace, but, still some parts that are pretty hard without some heavy dmg dealers. But, the warriors and the mages just get me/us into too much trouble for their worth. You also need to change your 2ndary to monk class, so you can bring revive for those situations where it just doesn't matter Alesia/Mhenlo is going to die. lol Revive has a long distance rez and I've found it very useful when playing with henchies. They really do need to adjust the AI of the healers though, they need to stay behind the main character at all times, never go past him or her and probably best have a 5ft to 10ft range. They also need to rez the main character faster. I've watched them rez other AI players before me and that really pissed me off when I could have saved the day. And I love this where the last one finally rezzes you or tries to just before they die and then you get swarmed and die again anyways. lol Great for the death penalty against you. And they need to fix them so they will run out from under AOE's as well.

Jan 05, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53	#14
LordMahal Krytan Explorer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Germany Profession: R/Mo	The update was to make the AI smarter, the bad guys that is. You all ever notice that the henchies only use a couple of skills? I have 8 on my bar, what the hell do they have? Orion uses flare, firestorm, and one or two others, thats it. Ok thats 4, still got some room to work there. Im all for having a command option, nothing fancy maybe 4 or 6 commands, to tell my henchmen what to do. Something nice like regroup, and a command to keep the dumb ass monks from being in the front. ANET simply did a half ass AI update, made the enemies smarter, and henchies, well, they are still dumb.

Jan 05, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08	#16
LordMahal Krytan Explorer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Germany Profession: R/Mo	Good call Ash...

Jan 05, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19	#17
thelessa Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Texas Guild: Purple Puzycats Profession: R/Mo	last night a friend and i took henchies out at perdition rock, healers run ahead and tank. when hit with meteor shower they just stand there and take it and die. at least there was no lava for them to stand in.

Jan 05, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46	#18
exiled mat Krytan Explorer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The netherlands > friesland > balk Guild: [JAMM] Justified Ancients of Moo Moo Profession: E/Me	why can't anet make it so that you can use your other characters (if you have them) as henchies? They die atleast a lot slower

Jan 06, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54	#20
Red Sonya Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005	I just did the Titan Quest with the henchies. I took them all (oh gawd the horror) and they died and died and died, lol, as soon as I see two or three drop I start running away and they are "suppose" to follow me, but, do they? NOOOOOO! they go deeper into the fray and then I play hell reviving them out of all those mobs. LOL, when we got to the final boss they had to be a 60% DP. Cynn goes down quicker than you can say Owl squat. I had to literally kill one thing at a time and then run away. Revive everyone, kill another and another and finally the Boss. I never died. It's so much better when I don't need to take Cynn or the Warriors. I can safely pull mobs away from other mobs and no AOE to make them run away. It really screwed up my smite build cause I loved Zealots Fire and Balthazar's Aura, but, I just changed them for Warriors Endurance and Frenzy and just kill one thing at a time quite fast and have unlimited energy while the Henchies just do their own thing lol. WARRIORS ENDURACE for the WIN!!