Levels, leveling, level caps, and level 20 - Page 27 - Guild Wars Forums

Tarun · May 13, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

By the way. You have any idea what that would do to attribs? and balance factors in the game??? I do. Its called playing a completly different game. If you don't like GuildWars, Leave! Quit trying to force Anet to turning into Worlds of Warcraft or Everquest. If you like those models so much, go play those. GW is different from those for a reason.

Hi, did you read all of my post? I attempted to address those issues as best I could during the time of writing. Please go back and read my posting.

I kinda wish I could change the poll to get a more accurate reflection into people's wants.

captainccc · May 13, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Sorry Tarun, i like the 20 cap lvl because it differs from power leveling and useless hours of repetitive lvling. I think that the lvl 20 cap makes players concentrate on getting through the game and trying to get new things. Well...i guess im being a BIT hypicritical because what replaced power leveling is farming...but thats ALWAYS switched up by builds and classes. I think the game is fine how it is.

~Captain CCC

Loviatar · May 13, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Hi, did you read all of my post? I attempted to address those issues as best I could during the time of writing. Please go back and read my posting.

I kinda wish I could change the poll to get a more accurate reflection into people's wants.

hi

were you aware you are inventing the wheel all over again?

why not just add to the longstanding poll already there?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2662

Coolniceronguy · May 13, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Game balance is the important issue.

Guild Wars was built from the ground up with an unchanging level cap in mind.

If there was an increase, the result would be a game balance catastrophe.

Tarun · May 13, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainccc

Sorry Tarun, i like the 20 cap lvl because it differs from power leveling and useless hours of repetitive lvling. I think that the lvl 20 cap makes players concentrate on getting through the game and trying to get new things. Well...i guess im being a BIT hypicritical because what replaced power leveling is farming...but thats ALWAYS switched up by builds and classes. I think the game is fine how it is.

~Captain CCC

I suppose the main reason I would like to see the cap raised it because after you hit level 20 there's not too much to do. You can go farm, few quests, buy/capture skills, explore or PvP. That's all well and good, but there should be some additional challenge, and that's what I see the raise in the cap as being. It adds more challenge and adds something to do. Even if they don't change the attribute points, HP or MP, (Though a slight raise in HP/MP would be nice) it would still be something out there to strive for, just like a title. :P

Tarun · May 13, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

hi

were you aware you are inventing the wheel all over again?

why not just add to the longstanding poll already there?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2662

From my original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Seeing as how the other poll they has closed a new one is in order. The intent here is for a mature discussion, no flaming or anything like that. A simple, honest discussion. I carry over my post from another thread as it took a few good minutes to write, though I believe it has some validity in the statements provided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolniceronguy

Game balance is the important issue.

Guild Wars was built from the ground up with an unchanging level cap in mind.

If there was an increase, the result would be a game balance catastrophe.

Can you provide details as to why this would throw off balance? I felt those issues were covered nicely in my original post. :P

If they can raise the level cap and not have to worry about HP/Mp/attribute points there shouldn't be a problem. Though I admit a raise in HP/MP would be nice.

MCS · May 13, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

I'm not going to bother reading the same dribble you call an argument nor will I be mature.

There are countless threads including unlocked ones and hell they're even in the right section. I'm not sure what threw you off if it was the questions or the answers but this is neither.

Go away.

Replicant · May 13, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

I agree with the original idea, even if no extra stats or attribute points are awarded. but it would give us hardcore gamers a challenge.

[FnG] Lazz · May 13, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I have been linked to this topic through another thread which got locked so I thought I'd post my view.

I really really do hope ANet raises the level or IMO things are going to get boring. The trouble I found with Factions was that I used my older character from tyria who is level 20, but because level 20 is the maximum level there was hardly any incentive for me to do quests - I just wanted to move on and do the things I had to do to reach the end of the game and I have probably 10 or so quests that I haven't completed which are given to you in the early part of factions.

The idea of games is to achieve things and personally I would be much happier if factions added say 10 more levels and made the further on areas of the map have tougher monsters.

Oh and the whole idea of doing quests to gain skill points is quite crazy really aswell. I mean who really lacks the skill points to spend on skills you want? (unless you want to buy every skill in the game). My warrior has about 40 or so skill points, and thats after I have brought every skill that I want for my warrior from both prophecies and factions.

Loviatar · May 13, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun
Seeing as how the other poll they has closed a new one is in order.

considering that you didnt bother to check the link it goes to the same poll you are just starting but has been going for some time.

OH YES AND IT IS NOT CLOSED EITHER AS IT WASNT YOURS

at least give me some credit for not refering to a closed poll.

sheeschhh

Tuoba Hturt Eht · May 13, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Level 20 cap will stay.
I seriously hope ANET makes certain that the level 20 cap will remain.

Guild Wars is about "Skills", not "levels".

"Skills" as in refering to the 750 skills available for the 8 professions in Guild Wars.

You continue to gain experience points after level 20 because you need skill points to purchase new "Skills".

You become "more powerful" by having more "Skills" to choose from and apply in the right situations.

If you do not like the level 20 cap, then I'm afraid Guild Wars is not the game for you.

Replicant · May 13, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

considering that you didnt bother to check the link it goes to the same poll you are just starting but has been going for some time.

OH YES AND IT IS NOT CLOSED EITHER AS IT WASNT YOURS

at least give me some credit for not refering to a closed poll.

sheeschhh

Quote:

Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 101. This poll is closed

Poll is closed... was closed about a year ago.. peoples opinions change and people change.

Quote:

12-28-2004, 09:45 PM

12/28/2004... hardly a topic that is accurate..

luckystrikes03 · May 13, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

How is lvling a challenge? Grind is boring and repetitive. As far as post-level20 rewards go; what is faction/gold/items/armor/fame/rank?

This isnt final fantasy and this (thank god) isnt WoW; why cant level 20 here, be thought of as level 99 in these games? My vote would be to remove levels entirely. "99 is higher than 20" is not the logic meant to be applied to guild wars.

[FnG] Lazz · May 13, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Level 20 cap will stay.
Guild Wars is about "Skills", not "levels".

Its about both. If it isn't about levels, then why have levels in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

"Skills" as in refering to the 750 skills available for the 8 professions in Guild Wars.

Sure 750 skills seems like an impressive number. Divide by 8 and it comes to just over 90 skills per profession, but how many of those 90 skills would the average player want to use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

You become "more powerful" by having more "Skills" to choose from and apply in the right situations.

You also become more powerful by leveling up to distribute attribute points which allows skills to become more powerful.

Tarun · May 13, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckystrikes03

How is lvling a challenge? Grind is boring and repetitive. As far as post-level20 rewards go; what is faction/gold/items/armor/fame/rank?

This isnt final fantasy and this (thank god) isnt WoW; why cant level 20 here, be thought of as level 99 in these games? My vote would be to remove levels entirely. "99 is higher than 20" is not the logic meant to be applied to guild wars.

To me, it would be something to do and something to strive for. It would also be something I would care to do, moreso than try to get fame/faction from PvP. Sure you can farm, but after a while it gets kind of boring too. This lets you do something else to pass the time. Not saying change the HP/MP (though it'd be nice, even if it was every 10 levels you get an extra 10 HP). Even if it's a mere cosmetic change showing you level with your skill point, it would at least be something!

Hm, I think I'll expand on that. It truly could be purely cometic. You gain one skill point per level anyways, right? Well, if they don't change the HP/MP/attribute points after you hit level 20 and start to level up from there, it would only be for looks. Just like rank/fame/titles. It's just for looks, right? That would mean nothing in the game would have to change except for a number. You go to level 21 and get your skill point. No more extra HP/MP, no attribute points. Just a level number up and a skill point. Would there be anything wrong with that? I sure would not think so. :P

Opeth11 · May 13, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Think about this. At every level you reach, you get some attribute points. Lets just say you were allowed to hit level 99. Now, if you were to gain twenty attributes per level, then you would end up with 1780 attribute points (180+20+[79x20]). <-- Okay, my math may be off, I tend to suck at that subject and I disgrace my 1337 asian heritage.

I wonder if you could max out every single attribute line with that? Hmm, yes we could.

Now, another view that can throw that entire theory out of place. Higher level monsters, higher level attribute line caps. Currently, the cap is at 12, without any runes, helms, skills, h4xx0rz. If the cap were to be raised, then you would be able to do more damage. Makes sense.

I believe that would be the solution in many people's minds, but that would create an upset PvP group who dislikes leveling 'grind'. There can be more disbutes in PvP.

Example:
Leader - GLF RANGER SPIKER!
Spiker - I'll come!
Leader - GO AWAY YOU LVL 97 NOOB. 99'S ONLY.

Catch my drift? Sure you do.

I really can't see Guild Wars raising the level cap in this game, it would cause to much disruption within the public, I would imagine. There would be some players who would love it, and many that will complain and ask for more nerfs.

/voted 'no'

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

To me, it would be something to do and something to strive for. It would also be something I would care to do, moreso than try to get fame/faction from PvP. Sure you can farm, but after a while it gets kind of boring too. This lets you do something else to pass the time. Not saying change the HP/MP (though it'd be nice, even if it was every 10 levels you get an extra 10 HP). Even if it's a mere cosmetic change showing you level with your skill point, it would at least be something!

Hm, I think I'll expand on that. It truly could be purely cometic. You gain one skill point per level anyways, right? Well, if they don't change the HP/MP/attribute points after you hit level 20 and start to level up from there, it would only be for looks. Just like rank/fame/titles. It's just for looks, right? That would mean nothing in the game would have to change except for a number. You go to level 21 and get your skill point. No more extra HP/MP, no attribute points. Just a level number up and a skill point. Would there be anything wrong with that? I sure would not think so. :P

All right, fair enough, but I can still imagine discrimination like the current Rank system located within the PvP world.

Morgana · May 13, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Raising the level cap wouldn't affect your weapons and armor... it'd give you more health and att points, that's all. For those, they'd have to increase the max damage and AL for everything.

Also, I've only got two issues with the idea of raising the level cap:
-I kind of like the fact that certain monsters will always be physically stronger than me.
-at level 40, that's almost 400 att points. Enough to max out too many attributes, imo.

Tarun · May 13, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by [FnG] Lazz

I have been linked to this topic through another thread which got locked so I thought I'd post my view.

I really really do hope ANet raises the level or IMO things are going to get boring. The trouble I found with Factions was that I used my older character from tyria who is level 20, but because level 20 is the maximum level there was hardly any incentive for me to do quests - I just wanted to move on and do the things I had to do to reach the end of the game and I have probably 10 or so quests that I haven't completed which are given to you in the early part of factions.

The idea of games is to achieve things and personally I would be much happier if factions added say 10 more levels and made the further on areas of the map have tougher monsters.

Oh and the whole idea of doing quests to gain skill points is quite crazy really aswell. I mean who really lacks the skill points to spend on skills you want? (unless you want to buy every skill in the game). My warrior has about 40 or so skill points, and thats after I have brought every skill that I want for my warrior from both prophecies and factions.

Very well said and quite true. NCSoft has Lineage 2, and their level cap is at 80 there.

AhuraMazda · May 13, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Guild Wars is not the kind of game that would work with a high level cap.

It is most certainly NOT an RPG in true sense of the word.

The only possible benefit from raising the level cap is gaining some kind of advantage, be it actual ingame, or bragging rights, over people who are not as high a level as you.

This is because higher level in Guild Wars would only translate into Hit Point and EXP. As mentioned before the PvP aspect of the game is absolutely fundamental to the game as a whole. Increasing attributes up to a high level would cause some skills to increase in power exponentially, and attributes, skills, and all things build related would have to be totally reworked and completely fine tuned.

Meaning that ultimatly taking a level 99 pve character into top level PvP would be something done by one or two power grinders who want their names worshipped on forums like these.

The call for higher levels is one I understand and empathise with, but personally I dont want to see higher levels in Guild Wars untill

A: the depth of PvE/RPG gaming in GW grows considerably
B: The player community mechanics receive a massive overhaul more condusive to maintaining your own communities at a high level of interactivity.

Otherwise it will just be teeth gritting PUG joining grind as far as I am concerned.

And ultimatly, when all is said and done, grinding should not give your character an advantage over someone who does not grind. (anet, hint for you, some grinders do get an advantage, you may wish to check some things out)

This is why armor, skills, and the level 20 are all fairly easy to reach. Ofcourse in my opinion perfect furious axe mods should also drop fairly often, but I like to compete, and GW is one of my favourite games by a long margin because of this. How fair would it be if Kasparov had a Queen you had to capture twice to remove?

heavenscloud2 · May 13, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

lvling in guild wars isnt the same as raising lvl in other game. u dont get much out of lvling. guild wars emphizes that PLAYING the game is fun, NOT lvling up

View Poll Results: Should the cap be raised sometime in the future?
No	117	61.90%
Yes	43	22.75%
Maybe after a couple of expansions	31	16.40%
Make the players that level up not allowed to be in arena battles	15	7.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

May 13, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30	#527
MCS Banned Join Date: May 2005	I'm not going to bother reading the same dribble you call an argument nor will I be mature. There are countless threads including unlocked ones and hell they're even in the right section. I'm not sure what threw you off if it was the questions or the answers but this is neither. Go away. __________________ I just wanted to see if I can do this. Leet.

May 13, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39	#529
[FnG] Lazz Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: Fun 'n' Games Profession: W/Mo	I have been linked to this topic through another thread which got locked so I thought I'd post my view. I really really do hope ANet raises the level or IMO things are going to get boring. The trouble I found with Factions was that I used my older character from tyria who is level 20, but because level 20 is the maximum level there was hardly any incentive for me to do quests - I just wanted to move on and do the things I had to do to reach the end of the game and I have probably 10 or so quests that I haven't completed which are given to you in the early part of factions. The idea of games is to achieve things and personally I would be much happier if factions added say 10 more levels and made the further on areas of the map have tougher monsters. Oh and the whole idea of doing quests to gain skill points is quite crazy really aswell. I mean who really lacks the skill points to spend on skills you want? (unless you want to buy every skill in the game). My warrior has about 40 or so skill points, and thats after I have brought every skill that I want for my warrior from both prophecies and factions. Last edited by [FnG] Lazz; May 13, 2006 at 12:44 AM // 00:44..

May 13, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11	#539
AhuraMazda Academy Page Join Date: Oct 2005	Guild Wars is not the kind of game that would work with a high level cap. It is most certainly NOT an RPG in true sense of the word. The only possible benefit from raising the level cap is gaining some kind of advantage, be it actual ingame, or bragging rights, over people who are not as high a level as you. This is because higher level in Guild Wars would only translate into Hit Point and EXP. As mentioned before the PvP aspect of the game is absolutely fundamental to the game as a whole. Increasing attributes up to a high level would cause some skills to increase in power exponentially, and attributes, skills, and all things build related would have to be totally reworked and completely fine tuned. Meaning that ultimatly taking a level 99 pve character into top level PvP would be something done by one or two power grinders who want their names worshipped on forums like these. The call for higher levels is one I understand and empathise with, but personally I dont want to see higher levels in Guild Wars untill A: the depth of PvE/RPG gaming in GW grows considerably B: The player community mechanics receive a massive overhaul more condusive to maintaining your own communities at a high level of interactivity. Otherwise it will just be teeth gritting PUG joining grind as far as I am concerned. And ultimatly, when all is said and done, grinding should not give your character an advantage over someone who does not grind. (anet, hint for you, some grinders do get an advantage, you may wish to check some things out) This is why armor, skills, and the level 20 are all fairly easy to reach. Ofcourse in my opinion perfect furious axe mods should also drop fairly often, but I like to compete, and GW is one of my favourite games by a long margin because of this. How fair would it be if Kasparov had a Queen you had to capture twice to remove? Last edited by AhuraMazda; May 13, 2006 at 01:19 AM // 01:19..

May 13, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18	#522
captainccc Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Coast =D Guild: Various GvG Guilds...Always Moving Profession: Mo/	Sorry Tarun, i like the 20 cap lvl because it differs from power leveling and useless hours of repetitive lvling. I think that the lvl 20 cap makes players concentrate on getting through the game and trying to get new things. Well...i guess im being a BIT hypicritical because what replaced power leveling is farming...but thats ALWAYS switched up by builds and classes. I think the game is fine how it is. ~Captain CCC

May 13, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23	#524
Coolniceronguy Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Guild: Amidst A Sea Of Darkness[Star]	Game balance is the important issue. Guild Wars was built from the ground up with an unchanging level cap in mind. If there was an increase, the result would be a game balance catastrophe.

May 13, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33	#528
Replicant Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2006 Profession: R/Me	I agree with the original idea, even if no extra stats or attribute points are awarded. but it would give us hardcore gamers a challenge.

May 13, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43	#531
Tuoba Hturt Eht Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Guild: Deimos Tel Arin [CCTV] Profession: W/	Level 20 cap will stay. I seriously hope ANET makes certain that the level 20 cap will remain. Guild Wars is about "Skills", not "levels". "Skills" as in refering to the 750 skills available for the 8 professions in Guild Wars. You continue to gain experience points after level 20 because you need skill points to purchase new "Skills". You become "more powerful" by having more "Skills" to choose from and apply in the right situations. If you do not like the level 20 cap, then I'm afraid Guild Wars is not the game for you.

May 13, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54	#533
luckystrikes03 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2006	How is lvling a challenge? Grind is boring and repetitive. As far as post-level20 rewards go; what is faction/gold/items/armor/fame/rank? This isnt final fantasy and this (thank god) isnt WoW; why cant level 20 here, be thought of as level 99 in these games? My vote would be to remove levels entirely. "99 is higher than 20" is not the logic meant to be applied to guild wars.

May 13, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10	#537
Morgana Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: Armour of the Republic Profession: N/W	Raising the level cap wouldn't affect your weapons and armor... it'd give you more health and att points, that's all. For those, they'd have to increase the max damage and AL for everything. Also, I've only got two issues with the idea of raising the level cap: -I kind of like the fact that certain monsters will always be physically stronger than me. -at level 40, that's almost 400 att points. Enough to max out too many attributes, imo.

May 13, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13	#540
heavenscloud2 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Profession: R/	lvling in guild wars isnt the same as raising lvl in other game. u dont get much out of lvling. guild wars emphizes that PLAYING the game is fun, NOT lvling up