STRENGTH: is it worth the points? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

A Leprechaun · Aug 11, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

that was his PvE tank build not his PvP dmg build... read the post!

Carl Butanananowski · Aug 11, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I think its worth it with a sundering something :P lotta armor penetration going on..

unless they dont stack?

Don Zardeone · Aug 11, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Str? PvE?
For dolyak and sentinels.

Oh and you don't need to go for the full 20 second dolyak with 15str. It's ok to have a few seconds without the 40~armour and you won't be snailing forward in-between fights X.x

If you look at those str skills, things like sprint don't really require much str, same with tiger stance.

This is Brad · Aug 11, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

The only strength skills worth bringing into a PvP environment are Bulls Strike, Bulls Charge, Sprint, Rush and you could argue for Protector's Strike (Which I think is a stupid skill).

Also if you are using an IAS other than frenzy, something is wrong with you.

milias · Aug 11, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by This is Brad

Also if you are using an IAS other than frenzy, something is wrong with you.

Hmm, I don't understand this. Frenzy doubles the damage you take, which used to be okay in PvP, since warriors aren't usually targeted till last due to their armor and absorption. But since the absorption nerf, warriors need to watch out a lot more for elemental damage. I'm not so sure using Frenzy is such a good idea anymore.

Retribution X · Aug 11, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Hmm, I don't understand this. Frenzy doubles the damage you take, which used to be okay in PvP, since warriors aren't usually targeted till last due to their armor and absorption. But since the absorption nerf, warriors need to watch out a lot more for elemental damage. I'm not so sure using Frenzy is such a good idea anymore.

I absolutly never use frenzy now. it sux.

Now I use Doylak signet 24-7-52

Zui · Aug 11, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

milias, no disrespect intended, but your statements are laughable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Monks can usually outheal any damage other than spike damage.

Which is why in the current metagame, almost everyone is playing to beat the energy out of monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Hmm, I don't understand this. Frenzy doubles the damage you take, which used to be okay in PvP, since warriors aren't usually targeted till last due to their armor and absorption. But since the absorption nerf, warriors need to watch out a lot more for elemental damage. I'm not so sure using Frenzy is such a good idea anymore.

Learn to use Frenzy.

Lord Aro · Aug 11, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

You need a 12 just to do full listed damage of a sword.

My understanding was, you only need the requirement on the weapon to do the max damage, any points over that requirement affect the skills associated and your chance to critical hit.

Dante the Warlord · Aug 11, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

personally, i think strength is good if you want to get the sentinals armor... personally my build for my warrior ranger is 13 strength, 15 swordsmanship, 5 beastmastery, and 5 tactics. I use the Luxon armor version of the sentinal's armor and it really kicks but, but i will only use this for regular PvE and farming. for PvP...I would like to start using the gladiators armor combined with less points in strength and swordsmanship to help my beast.

In the end nothing is really useless... its just HOW you use it... If i say that tactics are useless (which i personally think they are for me) then i am probably wrong if i say this overall ....

Horseman Of War · Aug 11, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

i might be the only fan of this skill in the entire game community:

dwarven battle stance [e](str) for (10..) seconds, all your Hammer attacks interrupt your target.

If that doesnt put Icy/SS to shame I dont know what does.

My stats are usually even with hammer&str as high as possible (tho I rarely put my hammer up to 16... I happen to like having a high str)

fallot · Aug 12, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aro

My understanding was, you only need the requirement on the weapon to do the max damage, any points over that requirement affect the skills associated and your chance to critical hit.

No, meeting the req. will allow you to not do pitiful damage. If you do not meet the requirement, your damage will be equal to a starting weapon. If you meet the req. you will deal the normal damage that you would at that weapon attribute level. Therefore, if you have eight points in swordsmanship and have a req. 7 sword, you will deal <100% weapon damage.

Malice Black · Aug 12, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

once you have finished reading all the bickering...

use whatever works best for you..take your time and find out what you like and stick to it...leave these to bicker among themselves

imo tactics is better in most cases, i just threw any spare points if any into str

Shadowfox1125 · Aug 12, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I don't "tank" in PvE unless I'm doing an Elite mission, but I usually go

16 - Weapon Attribute
11 - Tactics - Healing Signet, Watch Yourself!
09 - Strength - I bring Endure Pain all the time with me in PvE

Caelus The Fallen · Aug 12, 2006, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow39365

well i could talk about skills but that isnt why you asked, to be honest, 10 is enough and always will be enough for a standard build, anything over that is not really required. It does make a difference. Lets take a look at Frost Wurms, they don't have anymore HP than your average enemy but they just have stupidly high armour, using Strength against those types of creatures is useful? yes it is. Strength applies a damage bonus depending on enemy armour and if i am thinking correctly (pardon me, tired today) then the higher an enemy's armour the higher the damage bonus applied.

Not really, higher the armour, the more you penetrate, but the actual bonus damage gets smaller as Al increases. The effect of ignoring 6AL on a 60AL target is to marginally multiply up your weapon damage, whereas the effect of ignoring 10AL on a 100AL target is to multiply your damage by more than before BUT the damage being multiplied up is only half of the previous value because the increase of 40 AL halves your damage. To illustrate, lets say we are hitting fro 20 damage.

60AL - 20dmg
54AL - 22.2 dmg
--------------
bonus - 2.2 dmg

100 AL -10 dmg
90 AL - 11.9 dmg
--------------
bonus - 1.9 dmg

In short, both your weapon damage scales down with AL, your bonus damage is a function of both your weapon damage and AL; and the net effect is your bonus damage also scales down, just more slowly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aro

My understanding was, you only need the requirement on the weapon to do the max damage, any points over that requirement affect the skills associated and your chance to critical hit.

It comes from teh part in the damage calculation whereby:

dmg = weapon_dmg * 2 ^ (strikelevel - enemy_AL)

strikelevel = 5 * weapon_attribute (up to and inc 12)
+3 for every level over 12

by meeting your req, you ensure that weapon_dmg is the amount stated on the weapon, but to actually get that stated damage on a standard 60AL target, you need at least a 12. With a 16, you will get slightly above stated damage, but its diminishing returns. Att level also affects critical hit ratios, which is why any warrior planning on dealing damage will run a 16 in their weapon.
If you only run a 9 in weapon mastery, its like giving your foe an extra 15 armour :S

Stormlord Alex · Aug 12, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

For PvE... Strength is worth it simply for Dolyak Signet.

Throw in Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Shadow Shields, Eternal Shields, and Magmas Shields (after all, PvE is about looking good, right?), and then you'll realize Weapon/Tactics/Strength is better than Weapon/Tactics/Healing Prayers.

A Leprechaun · Aug 12, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

i use tactics a lot and did invest i 2 good eternal sheidls ^^ but i have found myself not using them much as i have not found any strength skills worth taking in PvE and now i have gone into hammers, after using swords and axes so long, i have found i use it even less with my att's looking more like this
hammer ~ 16
tactics ~ 8
earth magic ~ 10
strength ~ 3
(i think)

and from the main reaction ive got it seems that points in strength are just not justified by the extra armour penetration
well thats my conclusion , shout at me if im wrong

~A Leprechaun~

fallot · Aug 12, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

and from the main reaction ive got it seems that points in strength are just not justified by the extra armour penetration
well thats my conclusion , shout at me if im wrong

Your conclusion is correct, hopefully people can learn from this little discussion

Enchanted Warrior · Aug 12, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Warriors Endure Pain has saved me more than once. 17 seconds, it adds 272 health to me, by having a high strength (I run 13 strength and 16 Swords with a base of 506 health {armed +30 swords, +30 sheild}) .

Hephaestus Ram · Aug 12, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

For PvE... Strength is worth it simply for Dolyak Signet.

Throw in Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Shadow Shields, Eternal Shields, and Magmas Shields (after all, PvE is about looking good, right?), and then you'll realize Weapon/Tactics/Strength is better than Weapon/Tactics/Healing Prayers.

I don't know about this kind of setup. I've experimented with this " Tree stump " type
of build and think it's a waste in most situations. Assuming you also carry a rez, half
of your skill bar is used up. That only leaves you with four slots to do damage with.
My experiance has been that if you could actually kill something instead of just
standing there, you wouldnt need all those extra hit points.

I know that if you could get a perfect aggro, "stumping" it would work, but my
experiance is that you very rarely do. I feel like I'm more effective if I setup to do
maximum damage and leave it to the monks and ritualists to do damage control
for me.

What situations do you get in where your setup is effective?

Enchanted Warrior · Aug 12, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

It's called tanking, a meat sheild.. Most PUG healers are not to swift at healing.

Aug 11, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29	#21
A Leprechaun Desert Nomad Join Date: Feb 2006 Profession: W/	that was his PvE tank build not his PvP dmg build... read the post!

Aug 11, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44	#22
Carl Butanananowski Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arizona Guild: We Have Big [Meat]	I think its worth it with a sundering something :P lotta armor penetration going on.. unless they dont stack?

Aug 11, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48	#23
Don Zardeone Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2005	Str? PvE? For dolyak and sentinels. Oh and you don't need to go for the full 20 second dolyak with 15str. It's ok to have a few seconds without the 40~armour and you won't be snailing forward in-between fights X.x If you look at those str skills, things like sprint don't really require much str, same with tiger stance.

Aug 11, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18	#24
This is Brad Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2006 Guild: Clan KGYU [KGYU] Profession: W/	The only strength skills worth bringing into a PvP environment are Bulls Strike, Bulls Charge, Sprint, Rush and you could argue for Protector's Strike (Which I think is a stupid skill). Also if you are using an IAS other than frenzy, something is wrong with you.

Aug 11, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38	#29
Dante the Warlord Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: W/R	personally, i think strength is good if you want to get the sentinals armor... personally my build for my warrior ranger is 13 strength, 15 swordsmanship, 5 beastmastery, and 5 tactics. I use the Luxon armor version of the sentinal's armor and it really kicks but, but i will only use this for regular PvE and farming. for PvP...I would like to start using the gladiators armor combined with less points in strength and swordsmanship to help my beast. In the end nothing is really useless... its just HOW you use it... If i say that tactics are useless (which i personally think they are for me) then i am probably wrong if i say this overall ....

Aug 11, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49	#30
Horseman Of War Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: The Cult of Doom Profession: P/	i might be the only fan of this skill in the entire game community: dwarven battle stance [e](str) for (10..) seconds, all your Hammer attacks interrupt your target. If that doesnt put Icy/SS to shame I dont know what does. My stats are usually even with hammer&str as high as possible (tho I rarely put my hammer up to 16... I happen to like having a high str)

Aug 12, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02	#32
Malice Black Site Legend Join Date: Oct 2005	once you have finished reading all the bickering... use whatever works best for you..take your time and find out what you like and stick to it...leave these to bicker among themselves imo tactics is better in most cases, i just threw any spare points if any into str

Aug 12, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23	#33
Shadowfox1125 Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PST Profession: W/	I don't "tank" in PvE unless I'm doing an Elite mission, but I usually go 16 - Weapon Attribute 11 - Tactics - Healing Signet, Watch Yourself! 09 - Strength - I bring Endure Pain all the time with me in PvE

Aug 12, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33	#35
Stormlord Alex Grotto Attendant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island Guild: Soul of Melandru [sOm] Profession: W/E	For PvE... Strength is worth it simply for Dolyak Signet. Throw in Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Shadow Shields, Eternal Shields, and Magmas Shields (after all, PvE is about looking good, right?), and then you'll realize Weapon/Tactics/Strength is better than Weapon/Tactics/Healing Prayers.

Aug 12, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51	#36
A Leprechaun Desert Nomad Join Date: Feb 2006 Profession: W/	i use tactics a lot and did invest i 2 good eternal sheidls ^^ but i have found myself not using them much as i have not found any strength skills worth taking in PvE and now i have gone into hammers, after using swords and axes so long, i have found i use it even less with my att's looking more like this hammer ~ 16 tactics ~ 8 earth magic ~ 10 strength ~ 3 (i think) and from the main reaction ive got it seems that points in strength are just not justified by the extra armour penetration well thats my conclusion , shout at me if im wrong ~A Leprechaun~

Aug 12, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49	#38
Enchanted Warrior Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: W/Mo	Warriors Endure Pain has saved me more than once. 17 seconds, it adds 272 health to me, by having a high strength (I run 13 strength and 16 Swords with a base of 506 health {armed +30 swords, +30 sheild}) .

Aug 12, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06	#40
Enchanted Warrior Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: W/Mo	It's called tanking, a meat sheild.. Most PUG healers are not to swift at healing.