Links to "proven" builds? - Guild Wars Forums

toddhd · Jun 13, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I've played primarily as a "Nuker" type Elem since I started with GW. I'm fairly good at tweaking my fire skills for a given situation, but now that I'm playing NF, I have a problem. First, many missions are better played by another type of Elem build, for example, a water or air build. I don't have a lot of experience with those types of builds.

Secondly, now I have heroes, and those heroes also need a solid build. Often, the wiki will say something like, "Bring Master of Whispers with an MM build", but never having really played as a Necro, I don't know what makes for a good MM build. Same goes for every other type char class.

When I look in the builds forum, I see a lot of builds, but I have no idea which which ones are "proven" (meaning that lots of people have used them for a long time, and they work as advertised) and which ones are alternative or specialized builds.

Is there a list somewhere that has proven builds, short and sweet? Or can you reccomend links to solid builds?

Tab · Jun 13, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

www.pvxbuilds.com

toddhd · Jun 14, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Thanks - that was *exactly* what I was looking for!

Coloneh · Jun 14, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

try playing other classes. to be a decent player you really need to understand the roles and build or all professions (except maybe mesmer and paragon, they just suck)

Njaiguni Blaze · Jun 14, 2007, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

(except maybe mesmer and paragon, they just suck)

Ever saw Empathy at work in Hard Mode? What about Backfire? Have you been pwning the FoW with Hex Eater Vortex and Shatter Hex? Have you been annihilating Glint and Kuunavang within seconds with Psychic Distraction? Do you realise how powerful Spirit Shackles is in PvE? Do you realise how powerful a Mesmer is in HM, because of it's focused, quick, high dmg? Compare that dmg to a nuker who uses 8 seconds to cast a MS just to see them kiting out of it within a second. Also, Mesmers make the best chest runners.

Classes don't suck, players do.

Edit: On-topic...

http://gw.gamependium.com/tools/builds/search/ not great, but hey, I don't like any site with builds on them. I'll give you some builds myself for an ele.

Earth: [ebon hawk][stoning][glowstone][unsteady ground][eruption][glyph of lesser energy][earth attunement][rebirth]
Water: [shatterstone][freezing gust][vapor blade][blurred vision][ice spikes][glyph of lesser energy][water attunement][rebirth]

How does the code work on this site? :|

Skuld · Jun 14, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Listen to Njaiguni, PD and Shatter Hex are a real asset in hard mode.

Also, avoid that site like the plague.

Utaku · Jun 14, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

How does the code work on this site? :|

Earth: [skill]ebon hawk[/skill][skill]stoning[/skill][skill]glowstone[/skill][skill]unsteady ground[/skill][skill]eruption[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]earth attunement[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
Water: [skill]shatterstone[/skill][skill]freezing gust[/skill][skill]vapor blade[/skill][skill]blurred vision[/skill][skill]ice spikes[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]water attunement[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]

use skill and /skill with braquets...

I took a quick look at the pve builds listed on the wiki. It seems it's the deleted build section of guildwiki, and many of these builds are not so great (warriors without IAS for instance).

Njaiguni Blaze · Jun 14, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Thanks Utaku

BTW, Shatterstone->Freezing Gust->Vapor Blade is even better on a Mesmer, gives a great high dmg spike.

Coridan · Jun 14, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10122076

check out that link...it has a ton of builds already input just download the pack and follow the instructions that are on the post. Just remember that the attributes aren't set for any of the builds so you will have to set those and then resave :P

toddhd · Jun 14, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Thanks everyone. I do have other chars, so that I could try them all, but most of them are level 10 or less, as nothing has really captured my attention like the Elem. Never played a Paragon, my Elem was originally an E/Me and the Mesmer skills were a HUGE help, especially as a new player.

I don't really care for my assassin character much. I think sins get stronger later on, but starting out is tough - you don't have decent armor, and your kill rate isn't yet quick enough to justify being "in the thick of it", but there ya go. I also just started my first monk char, which is weirding me out just because it's such a different role. As pretty much any other char, you are mostly worried killing the baddies - as a monk, you are more focused on your own party, and its tough for me to get my mind wrapped around that paradigm in the midst of a fight.

Thanks for all the links, these are a big help.

tmakinen · Jun 14, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Just a quick note: generally speaking player builds != hero builds. While there are builds that both real players and the AI can use with comparable efficiency, it is much more common that a hero fails abysmally at properly playing a PC build, or conversely, does some tasks far better than any real players conceivably could. Understanding the basic differences between humans and the AI is the key to being able to make efficient hero builds. Some related issues are:

+ heroes have superhuman reflexes and experience zero lag. Power Drain on a hero monk is a completely feasible energy management option whereas the same skill on a real player would be a good recipe for a nervous breakdown. A hero monk with Infuse Health will already have catched a spike when a real monk just gets aware of the situation.

+ heroes 'access' the game environment in a different way than humans and have some advantages based on that. A hero minion master is constantly aware of the status of his every minion and can target each of them effortlessly, whereas a real player only sees a bony mess from which it's extremely hard to select any particular minion. Because of this, heroes excel at using skills that require targeting minions like Death Nova or Jagged Bones.

- heroes are reactive, not proactive. A healer hero monk will be more reliable than a protection hero monk because a healer fills HP bars after they go down but a protector is supposed to anticipate the damage and cast an enchantment to reduce/prevent it already before it happens. If your heroes carry a lot of proactive skills, be prepared to micromanage them yourself.

- heroes don't really understand skill interactions. Unless the skills themselves force you to use them in a particular order (like assassin dagger attacks), rest assured that a hero will find novel and idiotic ways to chain the given skills. A good example of this are skills that drain all adrenaline which Koss will happily use in the middle of his combo, totally ruining it.

toddhd · Jun 14, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Thanks tmakinen. I was kinda wondering about that. The other day I got a "Searing Flames" build for myself which works pretty well. I loaded up Zhed and Souske with it too, figuring we'd be pretty unstoppable together.

We did well for about 30 seconds, and then all of a sudden I noticed that the enemies weren't dying, and we were. I guess those guys had no concept of "energy management" whatsoever, so they just blasted away until they were depleted and then switched to wands.

I was hoping that maybe by putting certain spells towards the "front or back" of the spell list they might be inclined to use them (i.e. spam flare, not Metoer shower) but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Has there ever been any talk from ANet about letting us use our other characters as Heroes? That's what I'd really like to do, so I can take my whole party through instead on char at a time. I'd rather have my chars than all these henchies and heroes.

Utaku · Jun 14, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddhd

We did well for about 30 seconds, and then all of a sudden I noticed that the enemies weren't dying, and we were. I guess those guys had no concept of "energy management" whatsoever, so they just blasted away until they were depleted and then switched to wands.

You need to make sure your heroes keep [skill]fire attunement[/skill] up.

deadmonkey4u · Jun 14, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddhd

We did well for about 30 seconds, and then all of a sudden I noticed that the enemies weren't dying, and we were. I guess those guys had no concept of "energy management" whatsoever, so they just blasted away until they were depleted and then switched to wands.

Has there ever been any talk from ANet about letting us use our other characters as Heroes? That's what I'd really like to do, so I can take my whole party through instead on char at a time. I'd rather have my chars than all these henchies and heroes.

Give the heroes emanagement. Give em glyph fire attune and glowing gaze and they should do alright. I even usually throw a few mesmer interrupts on em that will give em energy. Really all you need is searing glowing and liquid for the fire skills.

As for the second part no

Coloneh · Jun 14, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Ever saw Empathy at work in Hard Mode? What about Backfire? Have you been pwning the FoW with Hex Eater Vortex and Shatter Hex? Have you been annihilating Glint and Kuunavang within seconds with Psychic Distraction? Do you realise how powerful Spirit Shackles is in PvE? Do you realise how powerful a Mesmer is in HM, because of it's focused, quick, high dmg? Compare that dmg to a nuker who uses 8 seconds to cast a MS just to see them kiting out of it within a second. Also, Mesmers make the best chest runners.

mesmers dont have a primary attribute in PvE. sure Fast Casting "works" but its not useful at all. all of those skills can be used on a N/Me or a E/Me just as well.

margretli · Jun 14, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

... (except maybe mesmer and paragon, they just suck)

Back in the days when Prophecies was the only chapter, I played an interrupt mesmer extensively, and guess what, I learnt a great deal about how other professions worked. As a mesmer, you don't do much that is visible, but you notice things more. You can't help but to learn what's up with other professions in order to counter them, shut them down so the rest of the team can kill them. Mesmer is a very involved profession, not only that you need to know what your own spells can do, but you need to know quite a bit about what skills other professions do in order to be a really affective mesmer.

Njaiguni Blaze · Jun 14, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

mesmers dont have a primary attribute in PvE. sure Fast Casting "works" but its not useful at all. all of those skills can be used on a N/Me or a E/Me just as well.

Fast Casting is wonderful. My HM build, which works great, is based on it even. MoR, Empathy, Backfire, Shatter Enchantment, Energy Burn, Auspicious Incantation, Guilt, Res.

Also, when using Fast Casting, any caster build (except for monking) works even better. Think about, I lose 2 points in Curses because of Head+Rune, but can get a double amount of SS off, which is more damage. Think about nuking, all those spells with 3 or 8 seconds casting time, np for a Mesmer, which is more dmg. Energy would be a bit tight, but nothing an Auspicious Incantation can't help. I mean, what's 5 more seconds on the recharge gonna do if a MS is cast within 5 seconds with a 52+ (-25, but heck, the spell is free) energy gain? Use it on the Echo-ed MS and it's not even making difference. Why do you think FC Air Spike builds are still so effective? Shatterstone->Freezing Gust->Vapor Blade with Fast Casting makes a 300+ dmg spike within 3 seconds. I can go on about this for hours, trust me, Fast Casting is VERY useful. I have been playing Mesmer in PvE ever since I started with GW PvE and have 2000+ hours on it and I have yet to find a Nuker who can beat my damage in the FoW, a SS curses Necro which can keep up with my Domination Line or a Choking Gas Ranger which can beat my interrupts.

Again, classes don't suck, players do.

byteme! · Jun 14, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Again, classes don't suck, players do.

QFT. If you find a certain class to difficult to play it's not because the class sucks, it's because the player sucks. Drop your sword wielding, aggro happy Wammos and learn to play other classes more effectively. I've learned alot more about the game when I played Mesmer and Monk. You start seeing things more clearly. Especially as a Monk. You start to see bad habits from other players and you see how it taxes on you as a healer thus in-turn you learn what not to do during battle.

quickmonty · Jun 14, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

try playing other classes. to be a decent player you really need to understand the roles and build or all professions (except maybe mesmer and paragon, they just suck)

Maybe YOU should try playing mesmer and paragon. A good mesmer can easily put two or three casters out of the battle. Most people just don't realize how deadly a mesmer can be because they don't deal direct damage. Paragon also is a support role at it's best. A good paragon can help the team do more damage, and mitigate damage done to the theam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Classes don't suck, players do.

QFT!

Coloneh · Jun 15, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

My point is that in PvE you are facing MOBS not even teams and shutting down 2-3 of their casters really isnt going to be that useful compared to the SS necro killing 7 of them or the elementalist nuking the whole bunch, or even the monk keeping your entire party alive.
and again fact casing dosnt help that much. you arent getting off twice as many skills, you are wasting energy twice as fast when you have less of it/less intake. plus you still have recharge times, the only things you will be getting off twice as much are flare and order of pain.

sorry to all you mesmer lovers out there, but you just dont do that much for the team.

(i noticed no one defending paragons, we all know about them)

Jun 13, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53	#1
toddhd Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Downingtown, PA Guild: Rite of Passage Profession: E/Me	Links to "proven" builds? I've played primarily as a "Nuker" type Elem since I started with GW. I'm fairly good at tweaking my fire skills for a given situation, but now that I'm playing NF, I have a problem. First, many missions are better played by another type of Elem build, for example, a water or air build. I don't have a lot of experience with those types of builds. Secondly, now I have heroes, and those heroes also need a solid build. Often, the wiki will say something like, "Bring Master of Whispers with an MM build", but never having really played as a Necro, I don't know what makes for a good MM build. Same goes for every other type char class. When I look in the builds forum, I see a lot of builds, but I have no idea which which ones are "proven" (meaning that lots of people have used them for a long time, and they work as advertised) and which ones are alternative or specialized builds. Is there a list somewhere that has proven builds, short and sweet? Or can you reccomend links to solid builds?

Jun 14, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07	#11
tmakinen Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: www.mybearfriend.net Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: E/	Just a quick note: generally speaking player builds != hero builds. While there are builds that both real players and the AI can use with comparable efficiency, it is much more common that a hero fails abysmally at properly playing a PC build, or conversely, does some tasks far better than any real players conceivably could. Understanding the basic differences between humans and the AI is the key to being able to make efficient hero builds. Some related issues are: + heroes have superhuman reflexes and experience zero lag. Power Drain on a hero monk is a completely feasible energy management option whereas the same skill on a real player would be a good recipe for a nervous breakdown. A hero monk with Infuse Health will already have catched a spike when a real monk just gets aware of the situation. + heroes 'access' the game environment in a different way than humans and have some advantages based on that. A hero minion master is constantly aware of the status of his every minion and can target each of them effortlessly, whereas a real player only sees a bony mess from which it's extremely hard to select any particular minion. Because of this, heroes excel at using skills that require targeting minions like Death Nova or Jagged Bones. - heroes are reactive, not proactive. A healer hero monk will be more reliable than a protection hero monk because a healer fills HP bars after they go down but a protector is supposed to anticipate the damage and cast an enchantment to reduce/prevent it already before it happens. If your heroes carry a lot of proactive skills, be prepared to micromanage them yourself. - heroes don't really understand skill interactions. Unless the skills themselves force you to use them in a particular order (like assassin dagger attacks), rest assured that a hero will find novel and idiotic ways to chain the given skills. A good example of this are skills that drain all adrenaline which Koss will happily use in the middle of his combo, totally ruining it. Last edited by tmakinen; Jun 14, 2007 at 01:11 PM // 13:11..

Jun 13, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01	#2
Tab Jungle Guide Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Under a bridge Guild: Team Quitter [QQ] Profession: Mo/	www.pvxbuilds.com

Jun 14, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19	#3
toddhd Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Downingtown, PA Guild: Rite of Passage Profession: E/Me	Thanks - that was exactly what I was looking for!

Jun 14, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11	#4
Coloneh Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Profession: D/W	try playing other classes. to be a decent player you really need to understand the roles and build or all professions (except maybe mesmer and paragon, they just suck)

Jun 14, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30	#6
Skuld Furnace Stoker Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr] Profession: A/	Listen to Njaiguni, PD and Shatter Hex are a real asset in hard mode. Also, avoid that site like the plague.

Jun 14, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32	#8
Njaiguni Blaze Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Netherlands Guild: The Biggyverse [PLEB] Profession: Me/	Thanks Utaku BTW, Shatterstone->Freezing Gust->Vapor Blade is even better on a Mesmer, gives a great high dmg spike.

Jun 14, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17	#9
Coridan Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: US Guild: Old Married Gamers {OMG} Profession: W/	http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10122076 check out that link...it has a ton of builds already input just download the pack and follow the instructions that are on the post. Just remember that the attributes aren't set for any of the builds so you will have to set those and then resave :P

Jun 14, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17	#10
toddhd Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Downingtown, PA Guild: Rite of Passage Profession: E/Me	Thanks everyone. I do have other chars, so that I could try them all, but most of them are level 10 or less, as nothing has really captured my attention like the Elem. Never played a Paragon, my Elem was originally an E/Me and the Mesmer skills were a HUGE help, especially as a new player. I don't really care for my assassin character much. I think sins get stronger later on, but starting out is tough - you don't have decent armor, and your kill rate isn't yet quick enough to justify being "in the thick of it", but there ya go. I also just started my first monk char, which is weirding me out just because it's such a different role. As pretty much any other char, you are mostly worried killing the baddies - as a monk, you are more focused on your own party, and its tough for me to get my mind wrapped around that paradigm in the midst of a fight. Thanks for all the links, these are a big help.

Jun 14, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36	#12
toddhd Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Downingtown, PA Guild: Rite of Passage Profession: E/Me	Thanks tmakinen. I was kinda wondering about that. The other day I got a "Searing Flames" build for myself which works pretty well. I loaded up Zhed and Souske with it too, figuring we'd be pretty unstoppable together. We did well for about 30 seconds, and then all of a sudden I noticed that the enemies weren't dying, and we were. I guess those guys had no concept of "energy management" whatsoever, so they just blasted away until they were depleted and then switched to wands. I was hoping that maybe by putting certain spells towards the "front or back" of the spell list they might be inclined to use them (i.e. spam flare, not Metoer shower) but that doesn't seem to be the case. Has there ever been any talk from ANet about letting us use our other characters as Heroes? That's what I'd really like to do, so I can take my whole party through instead on char at a time. I'd rather have my chars than all these henchies and heroes.

Jun 15, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13	#20
Coloneh Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Profession: D/W	My point is that in PvE you are facing MOBS not even teams and shutting down 2-3 of their casters really isnt going to be that useful compared to the SS necro killing 7 of them or the elementalist nuking the whole bunch, or even the monk keeping your entire party alive. and again fact casing dosnt help that much. you arent getting off twice as many skills, you are wasting energy twice as fast when you have less of it/less intake. plus you still have recharge times, the only things you will be getting off twice as much are flare and order of pain. sorry to all you mesmer lovers out there, but you just dont do that much for the team. (i noticed no one defending paragons, we all know about them)