Nightfall: Hard, bad luck, or do I stink? - Guild Wars Forums

AC1988 · Aug 03, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

You know, I don't expect MMORPG games to be easy or any other game to be real easy unless it is some kind of baby game but this is just plain dumb. I am on this quest where I need to kill four groups of level 28 demons. I follow the arrows to the first group of demons. I attack them and seem to have no problems with the first group. I then make my way to the second group and attack one demon at a time, only this time when I attack the demon, my henchmen start to die faster then what the three monks I have with me can heal, one after another they all drop like flies making it impossible to heal them. Ok no problem I told myself, I was resurrected to the nearest area only to find two groups of Shadow Elementals close to where I was resurrected. They all start to cast their area of effect spells and, well, kills off my group before I can get one dead. This goes on for about 20 minutes until I kill them all. Now I have the -60% weekend by death crap and my health points are about 200 from 530. I head on back to the second group of demons and try again and the same thing happens, I die instantly. If I port back to an outpost then I have to start the quest all over again and go through the same thing over and over. Maybe I suck at this game, maybe this game is a little too hard, or maybe I just have bad luck.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Psuedo Halgoen · Aug 03, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Which quest is it that you are trying to complete? If its "breaking the broken" have a look at this.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Broken

If it isn't, sometimes it pays to have a look at your entire party and who is in it. Changing skills depending on what monsters you are going to be facing and looking at hero bars really does help.

Also I find that if I am tired, a mission or quest that is and should be easy, is painfully hard and I just want to throw my computer out a window in frustration. I'll come back the next day and complete it without a problem, this makes me rage even more considering how hard I might have found it the day before.

Good luck

ryanryanryan0310 · Aug 03, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

It happens......keep on trying.

ValaOfTheFens · Aug 03, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

The Realm of Torment is a hard area. Not impossibly so. You just have to find what works for you. For me, I've taken to using Zhed as a warder with a knockdown or two and taking both monk heroes. Also, kill the enemy that gives you the most trouble first instead of just going for the melee foes first. It will save you alot of trouble in the end.

Omniclasm · Aug 03, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

If it's Breaking the Broken, just leave it. Just continue on with the story and come back when you are more comfortable with the area, or don't come back. I only completed it once, reward isn't really worth it.

As for the Realm of Torment in general, you usually have to change your builds around to be slightly more defensive.

Melody Cross · Aug 03, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

I <3 Norgu. Powerblock mesmer is so FTW in the end of game areas

I also have gotten almost addicted to taking my curses necro almost everywhere with me. Enfeeble and Epidemic is a great combination for cutting down the damage that melee characters create.

Maybe you are overthinking your defense? That happens a lot with groups when I help people through the end of the game in Nightfall. There is so much call for defense that it takes forever to kill anything and the monks wear out. Interrupts=a lot less damage because the skills and spells don't get off

Also, the monk AI doesn't really do too well with more than 5 or so skills, and doesn't do well at all with hybrid builds. Check your builds for your monks. It may be that you have something that makes sense to a human but an AI just looks at says "duh?"

Mo/Me is great for AI monks too. They can help Norgu interrupt if you set them to guard, they are less likely to kite enemies all over creation (and run out of wards if you use them) and they have more energy when you face casters.

If you do not have norgu, try to get him or if you can't get him take a archer hero and make it BHA. BHA is okay for end game stuff too. Well, there are forums her for heroes and hero builds.

GGs

Omniclasm · Aug 03, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Oh, after reading through again, 3 monks is bad. Usually 2 monks + 1-3 hybrid support type characters work pretty good.
Examples of supports:
Paragons
Curse Necros
Interrupt Mesmers
Interrupt Rangers
Warriors with Watch Yourself
Spirit Spam Rit
Earth Ele
Yeah you get the point.

Oh and when you get to Gate of Pain, use a Choking Gas ranger, they work wonders.

Fates · Aug 03, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

3 monks is really bad. Not nearly enough damage. You need much better balance. I BP'ed basically the whole realm and that's with only one monk. Kill fast is key. Hero's are very good at following targets, leave melee targets for last.

LONGA · Aug 03, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48

What I ran around Realm of torment are
For heroes I pick Monk with Spell breaker , A shout tank Warrior , And Damage Support paragon.And the henchmen usually the earth henchman,blood henchman,motivation henchman
Those are prove to be good enough to stand in a long fight with demons.

shield up is used a lot because enemy ranger use barrage

VinnyRidira · Aug 03, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

It sound's like you took all the quests, including the Master Difficulty one. Only take the primaries first and then do the others individually. The first time my friend and I went in we took all the quests and got hopelessly pulverised. Then we saw in the Wiki to avvoid taking Master Difficulty ones until you are ready.

Etta · Aug 03, 2007, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Yeah it called Master Difficulty for a reason, it's bloody hard. I only did it twice, the reward is not worth it at all. I suggest you dump the quest for now and carry on with the main mission. Come back and do it at the later day.

EPO Bot · Aug 03, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

It's good Anet delayed the point at wich you can get Breaking the broken. Originally, you arived in rot, took the quest, walked out in nightfallen Jahai and got swamped by 10000000 torment reatures. I'm shure that scared a lot of unsuspecting players off, making them think the whole rot was that hard. But as long as you have to fight mostly margonites, it's really easy.

Also, don't focus on the word's of madness but take out those fracking rains of terror instead. Best tip i can imagine for rot.

ultima · Aug 03, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

agreed on the rains of terror ^^ they are a pain
btw if there is the ranger demon, kill his spirit quickening zephyr first! it screws over your monks badly

FeroxC · Aug 03, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Theres only been 2 areas ive been realy stuck in the game:
Nightfall - First time in realm of torment.
Prophecies - centuar mobs in hard mode.

Both times the solution was to add norgu.

anshin · Aug 03, 2007, 11:49 AM // 11:49

always kill Rain of Terror first...

no matter if you even have a boss in the mob... always go for the rains first...

leave the Arms of Insanity for last as their lightning reflexes+call of torment can be a pain...

and the rest is a breeze:P

dustbunny · Aug 03, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Read what the OP posted. He isn't referring to Breaking the Broken quest nor is it a masters difficulty one. Breaking the Broken happens in Nightfallen Jahai. There are no shadow armies there. If he got resurrected at a shrine and was jumped immediately by shadow elementalists, then it wasn't in Nightfallen Jahai. It's more likely that it happened in Domain of Secrets. There's a quest that happens there that you pick up from Gate of Secrets. The Charr there gives you the A Flickering Flame quest. It spawns four groups of demons that otherwise would not be in Domain of Secrets that you have to kill before you can complete the quest.

To the OP: if are are indeed referring to A Flickering Flame quest, then you've made it this far in Realm of Torment. You should be no strangers to demons. How did you get through Domain of Fear to get to Domain of Secrets? If you've had success dealing with demons up to this point and got tripped up by a group of demons in Domain of Secrets, I'm guessing the environment effect might have been a problem. Skills in Domain of Secrets cost 40% more energy to use. It is VERY easy for the monks to run out of energy. If you happened to have met a couple of Arms of Insanity laying down quickening zephyr and hitting your monk or spell casters with debilitating shot, chances are they had no energy about 15 seconds into the fight. I suspect that you are perfectly capable of assessing what went wrong and succeeding after another go. If you are simply venting your frustration, then you are not alone. There are many quests and missions that will work like that. No one is above it. Getting completely wiped doesn't make it a hallmark of anyone "good" or "bad" at playing it. Happens to everyone. There simply are places with foes that allow only small margins for error.

kazjun · Aug 06, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

If it is the 40% energy cost that's getting you, go a melee party. Take as many warriors (and paragons) as you can. An orders (and/or MoP) necro will have you wiping out any mob long before energy becomes a problem. If you got a MM along, have him take the cheaper melee minions rather than the energy expensive fiends.

Aug 03, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23	#1
AC1988 Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jul 2007	Nightfall: Hard, bad luck, or do I stink? You know, I don't expect MMORPG games to be easy or any other game to be real easy unless it is some kind of baby game but this is just plain dumb. I am on this quest where I need to kill four groups of level 28 demons. I follow the arrows to the first group of demons. I attack them and seem to have no problems with the first group. I then make my way to the second group and attack one demon at a time, only this time when I attack the demon, my henchmen start to die faster then what the three monks I have with me can heal, one after another they all drop like flies making it impossible to heal them. Ok no problem I told myself, I was resurrected to the nearest area only to find two groups of Shadow Elementals close to where I was resurrected. They all start to cast their area of effect spells and, well, kills off my group before I can get one dead. This goes on for about 20 minutes until I kill them all. Now I have the -60% weekend by death crap and my health points are about 200 from 530. I head on back to the second group of demons and try again and the same thing happens, I die instantly. If I port back to an outpost then I have to start the quest all over again and go through the same thing over and over. Maybe I suck at this game, maybe this game is a little too hard, or maybe I just have bad luck. Does anyone else have this problem?

Aug 03, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51	#6
Melody Cross Krytan Explorer Join Date: Dec 2006 Guild: Alliance of Anguish [aOa] Profession: Mo/	I <3 Norgu. Powerblock mesmer is so FTW in the end of game areas I also have gotten almost addicted to taking my curses necro almost everywhere with me. Enfeeble and Epidemic is a great combination for cutting down the damage that melee characters create. Maybe you are overthinking your defense? That happens a lot with groups when I help people through the end of the game in Nightfall. There is so much call for defense that it takes forever to kill anything and the monks wear out. Interrupts=a lot less damage because the skills and spells don't get offAlso, the monk AI doesn't really do too well with more than 5 or so skills, and doesn't do well at all with hybrid builds. Check your builds for your monks. It may be that you have something that makes sense to a human but an AI just looks at says "duh?" Mo/Me is great for AI monks too. They can help Norgu interrupt if you set them to guard, they are less likely to kite enemies all over creation (and run out of wards if you use them) and they have more energy when you face casters. If you do not have norgu, try to get him or if you can't get him take a archer hero and make it BHA. BHA is okay for end game stuff too. Well, there are forums her for heroes and hero builds. GGs

Aug 03, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30	#2
Psuedo Halgoen Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: GMT+10	Which quest is it that you are trying to complete? If its "breaking the broken" have a look at this. http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Broken If it isn't, sometimes it pays to have a look at your entire party and who is in it. Changing skills depending on what monsters you are going to be facing and looking at hero bars really does help. Also I find that if I am tired, a mission or quest that is and should be easy, is painfully hard and I just want to throw my computer out a window in frustration. I'll come back the next day and complete it without a problem, this makes me rage even more considering how hard I might have found it the day before. Good luck

Aug 03, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33	#3
ryanryanryan0310 Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS]	It happens......keep on trying.

Aug 03, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36	#4
ValaOfTheFens Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2006 Guild: Warrior Nation[WN]	The Realm of Torment is a hard area. Not impossibly so. You just have to find what works for you. For me, I've taken to using Zhed as a warder with a knockdown or two and taking both monk heroes. Also, kill the enemy that gives you the most trouble first instead of just going for the melee foes first. It will save you alot of trouble in the end.

Aug 03, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45	#5
Omniclasm Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Guild Hall Profession: A/	If it's Breaking the Broken, just leave it. Just continue on with the story and come back when you are more comfortable with the area, or don't come back. I only completed it once, reward isn't really worth it. As for the Realm of Torment in general, you usually have to change your builds around to be slightly more defensive.

Aug 03, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24	#7
Omniclasm Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Guild Hall Profession: A/	Oh, after reading through again, 3 monks is bad. Usually 2 monks + 1-3 hybrid support type characters work pretty good. Examples of supports: Paragons Curse Necros Interrupt Mesmers Interrupt Rangers Warriors with Watch Yourself Spirit Spam Rit Earth Ele Yeah you get the point. Oh and when you get to Gate of Pain, use a Choking Gas ranger, they work wonders.

Aug 03, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35	#8
Fates Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kanuckistan Guild: Mirror of Reason [SNOW] Profession: R/	3 monks is really bad. Not nearly enough damage. You need much better balance. I BP'ed basically the whole realm and that's with only one monk. Kill fast is key. Hero's are very good at following targets, leave melee targets for last.

Aug 03, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48	#9
LONGA Krytan Explorer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thailand Guild: Agot Profession: N/	What I ran around Realm of torment are For heroes I pick Monk with Spell breaker , A shout tank Warrior , And Damage Support paragon.And the henchmen usually the earth henchman,blood henchman,motivation henchman Those are prove to be good enough to stand in a long fight with demons. shield up is used a lot because enemy ranger use barrage

Aug 03, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05	#10
VinnyRidira Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2007 Guild: Ridirian Guides Profession: W/Me	It sound's like you took all the quests, including the Master Difficulty one. Only take the primaries first and then do the others individually. The first time my friend and I went in we took all the quests and got hopelessly pulverised. Then we saw in the Wiki to avvoid taking Master Difficulty ones until you are ready.

Aug 03, 2007, 08:20 AM // 08:20	#11
Etta Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mancland, British Empire	Yeah it called Master Difficulty for a reason, it's bloody hard. I only did it twice, the reward is not worth it at all. I suggest you dump the quest for now and carry on with the main mission. Come back and do it at the later day.

Aug 03, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34	#12
EPO Bot Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2006 Profession: Mo/N	It's good Anet delayed the point at wich you can get Breaking the broken. Originally, you arived in rot, took the quest, walked out in nightfallen Jahai and got swamped by 10000000 torment reatures. I'm shure that scared a lot of unsuspecting players off, making them think the whole rot was that hard. But as long as you have to fight mostly margonites, it's really easy. Also, don't focus on the word's of madness but take out those fracking rains of terror instead. Best tip i can imagine for rot.

Aug 03, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44	#13
ultima Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: ultima Profession: W/Mo	agreed on the rains of terror ^^ they are a pain btw if there is the ranger demon, kill his spirit quickening zephyr first! it screws over your monks badly

Aug 03, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48	#14
FeroxC Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: EOA Profession: P/W	Theres only been 2 areas ive been realy stuck in the game: Nightfall - First time in realm of torment. Prophecies - centuar mobs in hard mode. Both times the solution was to add norgu.

Aug 03, 2007, 11:49 AM // 11:49	#15
anshin Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2006 Profession: R/	always kill Rain of Terror first... no matter if you even have a boss in the mob... always go for the rains first... leave the Arms of Insanity for last as their lightning reflexes+call of torment can be a pain... and the rest is a breeze:P

Aug 03, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39	#16
dustbunny Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2005	Read what the OP posted. He isn't referring to Breaking the Broken quest nor is it a masters difficulty one. Breaking the Broken happens in Nightfallen Jahai. There are no shadow armies there. If he got resurrected at a shrine and was jumped immediately by shadow elementalists, then it wasn't in Nightfallen Jahai. It's more likely that it happened in Domain of Secrets. There's a quest that happens there that you pick up from Gate of Secrets. The Charr there gives you the A Flickering Flame quest. It spawns four groups of demons that otherwise would not be in Domain of Secrets that you have to kill before you can complete the quest. To the OP: if are are indeed referring to A Flickering Flame quest, then you've made it this far in Realm of Torment. You should be no strangers to demons. How did you get through Domain of Fear to get to Domain of Secrets? If you've had success dealing with demons up to this point and got tripped up by a group of demons in Domain of Secrets, I'm guessing the environment effect might have been a problem. Skills in Domain of Secrets cost 40% more energy to use. It is VERY easy for the monks to run out of energy. If you happened to have met a couple of Arms of Insanity laying down quickening zephyr and hitting your monk or spell casters with debilitating shot, chances are they had no energy about 15 seconds into the fight. I suspect that you are perfectly capable of assessing what went wrong and succeeding after another go. If you are simply venting your frustration, then you are not alone. There are many quests and missions that will work like that. No one is above it. Getting completely wiped doesn't make it a hallmark of anyone "good" or "bad" at playing it. Happens to everyone. There simply are places with foes that allow only small margins for error.

Aug 06, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52	#17
kazjun Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2006 Guild: HoVa Profession: W/N	If it is the 40% energy cost that's getting you, go a melee party. Take as many warriors (and paragons) as you can. An orders (and/or MoP) necro will have you wiping out any mob long before energy becomes a problem. If you got a MM along, have him take the cheaper melee minions rather than the energy expensive fiends.