Apple - Page 4 - Guild Wars Forums

moriz · Nov 06, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

my old desktop can handle direct3D better than openGL. since it's specs are on par with most lowend desktops, i'd say it's a fair assumption that most lowend systems will have better results running direct3D than openGL.

i know direct3D is not a programming language. however, games are programmed to use it. it's also easier to use than openGL from what i've heard.

in case you haven't noticed, this is a public forum. make an insult, and be prepared to get one in return.

Yanman.be · Nov 06, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

We are slipping away from the real question...

Do we WANT Apple fanboys playing our game?

I certainly not.

Haskell · Nov 06, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

... a fair assumption ...

... from what i've heard ...

Ah, that's where you are coming from.

OpenGL was never "less performant" or "harder to use". The opposite is true. However, it's a known fact that MS artificially slows down OpenGL (for example - Vista doesn't support OpenGL if you use 'Aero' ...).

UT2k4 under Windows is 30% slower than under Linux - both use OpenGL.

What MS does seems logic - they want to protect their position on the market - but it's also very risky. If a gamedeveloper has to consider to support DirectX9 for WinXP-costumers and DirectX10 for Vista - why not use OpenGL3 and easily support all plattforms, Windows, Linux, *BSD, MacOSX, PS3, XBox etc. Like UT3 or Q5 will do.

It even looks better: http://www.winmatrix.com/forums/inde...howtopic=13647

And that's just GL2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Do we WANT Apple fanboys playing our game?

Easy: More potential costumers = more money for Anet.

Lay · Nov 06, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Yay, always nice seeing people talking about stuff they have no clue about.

It's quite hard for a game that uses Direct-X to convert to mac, so appearently the costs wouldn't justify the financial benefits.

You can run it though with Crossover, it works but not that great - has some graphical glitches. You'll have to dual boot and run Bootcamp to fully enjoy it, if you have an Intel Mac.

moriz · Nov 06, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

i think we've already established why it's not worth the effort and money to gain that tiny bit of additional revenue.

especially considering how little money mac users have, after they've been gouged $2k+ for a system that's worth maybe $1k

Haskell · Nov 06, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

If you think the nearly whole Console-, Mac- and Linuxmarket is not worth the "tiny bit of additional revenue", well okaaaaaay.

The development of a game that uses OpenGL is as expensive as to use D3D, so you don't pay more and can reach more potential costumers.

Then again - good point, Macusers have a higher income and will buy a PS3 anyways to play games. Or buy a license of Win and run GW in Bootcamp, or install Linux (on a Mac) and let GW run under Wine.

Apple has no real interests to establish MacOSX as a gaming plattform, because you know, Windows is for gamekiddies and people who waste time with anti-virus-software, OSX is for producers of creative content who need a perfect workflow and Linux is just for nerds. They are not interessted to weaken those prejudices. Hehe.

moriz · Nov 06, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

you are retarded if you actually believe all that.

Skuld · Nov 06, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lay

Yay, always nice seeing people talking about stuff they have no clue about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you are retarded if you actually believe all that.

qfts

12345678

Woop Shotty · Nov 06, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Do we WANT Apple fanboys playing our game?

Oh hah, I didn't know it was your game. Why wouldn't you want more players in GW, and what's wrong with Apple players?

jhu · Nov 08, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haskell

The development of a game that uses OpenGL is as expensive as to use D3D, so you don't pay more and can reach more potential costumers.

sure the initial development costs for using opengl or d3d may be the same, but the potential market is completely different. the market for using d3d is enourmous given the number of people who use windows. for opengl, it's considerably smaller since less people use mac, linux, etc. so the expense/potential market ratio is really skewed towards windows for a game like guild wars (although they could have programmed it in java and reached everyone...)

Quaker · Nov 08, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

The important point is that, whether or not ANet coulda/shoulda/woulda used OpenGL - they didn't. GW uses DirectX. That, plus the fact they are concentrating on doing GW2, makes it very unlikely they would port it to Apple.

Those people who want to play GW on a Mac will just have to use Bootcamp or some such.

Enough with the OpenGL fanboy (and anti-Apple) BS already!

FlameoutAlchemist · Nov 08, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

-OP has asked for thread close, and this is slowly turning into a PC/Apple catfight
-closed

Nov 08, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57	#72
FlameoutAlchemist Hitmonk Extraordinarre!! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lurking moar on my forums Guild: Starvin Chillin on Lincoln Drive [MAFB] Profession: Mo/Me	-OP has asked for thread close, and this is slowly turning into a PC/Apple catfight -closed __________________

Nov 06, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19	#61
moriz ??ber t??k-n??sh'??n Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Profession: R/	my old desktop can handle direct3D better than openGL. since it's specs are on par with most lowend desktops, i'd say it's a fair assumption that most lowend systems will have better results running direct3D than openGL. i know direct3D is not a programming language. however, games are programmed to use it. it's also easier to use than openGL from what i've heard. in case you haven't noticed, this is a public forum. make an insult, and be prepared to get one in return.

Nov 06, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58	#62
Yanman.be Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [ROSE] Profession: A/	We are slipping away from the real question... Do we WANT Apple fanboys playing our game? I certainly not.

Nov 06, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08	#64
Lay Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Sep 2005	Yay, always nice seeing people talking about stuff they have no clue about. It's quite hard for a game that uses Direct-X to convert to mac, so appearently the costs wouldn't justify the financial benefits. You can run it though with Crossover, it works but not that great - has some graphical glitches. You'll have to dual boot and run Bootcamp to fully enjoy it, if you have an Intel Mac.

Nov 06, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18	#66
Haskell Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Oct 2007	If you think the nearly whole Console-, Mac- and Linuxmarket is not worth the "tiny bit of additional revenue", well okaaaaaay. The development of a game that uses OpenGL is as expensive as to use D3D, so you don't pay more and can reach more potential costumers. Then again - good point, Macusers have a higher income and will buy a PS3 anyways to play games. Or buy a license of Win and run GW in Bootcamp, or install Linux (on a Mac) and let GW run under Wine. Apple has no real interests to establish MacOSX as a gaming plattform, because you know, Windows is for gamekiddies and people who waste time with anti-virus-software, OSX is for producers of creative content who need a perfect workflow and Linux is just for nerds. They are not interessted to weaken those prejudices. Hehe.

Nov 06, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33	#67
moriz ??ber t??k-n??sh'??n Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Profession: R/	you are retarded if you actually believe all that.

Nov 08, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31	#71
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	The important point is that, whether or not ANet coulda/shoulda/woulda used OpenGL - they didn't. GW uses DirectX. That, plus the fact they are concentrating on doing GW2, makes it very unlikely they would port it to Apple. Those people who want to play GW on a Mac will just have to use Bootcamp or some such. Enough with the OpenGL fanboy (and anti-Apple) BS already!